Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
don't panic

 


2gruv2  (A License)

Sep 6, 2002, 1:21 PM
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don't panic Can't Post

Last weekend,sunday actually i saw a new jumper, not sure how many exactly but new to the sport, coming in for a landing. She was high and headed for the side of a hanger. All she had to do was gently turn to the left and land next to it but she paniced and hooked it right at about 40 feet. Still she was ok, a little fast and headed down wind, but still ok. Well at abot 20 feet or LESS she again hooked it hard left to land into the wind. Well lets just say in wasn't pretty. When i got back down from the next load the helicopter was there taking her to the hospital.. Moral of the story..don't panic.. its ok not to land in the landing area, if its safe.. and its ok to land down wind. I'm not sure hows shes doing but i hope shes ok and someone else can learn from her mistake!!! Wink


clrarch  (A License)

Sep 6, 2002, 3:52 PM
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Re: [2gruv2] don't panic [In reply to] Can't Post

Great post for those of us new to skydiving. I hope her injuries aren't really serious and she'll be alright. Any news on how she's doing? I have eight jumps to my credit at the moment (getting closer to graduation from AFF)---jump #6 was my first off-site landing. I landed in a long, narrow field south of the dropzone, going downwind (fortunately no buildings to contend with) because trying to get upwind was just not an option. If you find yourself in that position, go with it, stay calm, flare as you would at the dropzone and be prepared to PLF if you feel you're going in with a lot of speed (you don't have to try to stand up every landing!). I walked away with a bruise and bought a case of beer for the DZ for the ride back. If your dropzone offers canopy classes, I highly recommend taking them. I had my first advanced canopy class the night before my first off-site landing. Good timing!


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Sep 7, 2002, 11:08 AM
Post #3 of 16 (2340 views)
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Re: [2gruv2] don't panic [In reply to] Can't Post

>she paniced and hooked it right at about 40 feet. . . . at abot 20
> feet or LESS she again hooked it hard left to land into the wind.

Yep. Most new jumpers do not know how to do flat turns; thus, the only way they know to turn is via a hard toggle turn. This is another example where knowing (and practicing) flat turns can keep you out of an ambulance (or worse..)


jettero  (A 48132)

Sep 7, 2002, 1:55 PM
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Re: [billvon] don't panic [In reply to] Can't Post

by flat turn, I assume you mean very little toggle and you mostly stay under the canopy?


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
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Sep 7, 2002, 3:36 PM
Post #5 of 16 (2296 views)
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Re: [jettero] don't panic [In reply to] Can't Post

>by flat turn, I assume you mean very little toggle and you mostly
> stay under the canopy?

No, you can be aggressive with the toggles as long as you counter with the opposite toggle to "flatten" the turn. It's an easy to learn technique - ask an instructor/experienced canopy pilot at your DZ about it. Using it you can turn quite low, come out of the turn, and flare immediately if necessary.


ifallout  (D 27068)

Sep 7, 2002, 8:00 PM
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Re: [jettero] don't panic [In reply to] Can't Post

Flat turns are incredibly easy, you just have to know to use them. I think they should be part of AFF. you can do them most anytime, pretty damn low too, and you can use both toggles and be going pretty slow when you do it too.. great for avoiding things like buildings, power lines and tress among other things.

I hope she is going to be ok.

I am pretty sure that there would be less deaths and i know there would be less injuries if we all knew how to use them...

Practice high at first just like anything else.


jessefs  (A License)

Sep 8, 2002, 7:35 AM
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Re: [billvon] don't panic [In reply to] Can't Post

Is this also called a "cross control" turn done by flying with both toggles down and letting one up to turn?

jesse


ifallout  (D 27068)

Sep 8, 2002, 11:05 AM
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Re: [jessefs] don't panic [In reply to] Can't Post

Never heard it called that but sounds the same, it will make you turn flat and that is the idea.


jessefs  (A License)

Sep 8, 2002, 12:15 PM
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Re: [ifallout] don't panic [In reply to] Can't Post

The AFP at my dz starts students doing this at AFP 4 and continue to do so throughout the program as objectives. It's good to know that these are important to be comfortable with.

jesse


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
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Sep 8, 2002, 9:42 PM
Post #10 of 16 (2102 views)
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Re: [jessefs] don't panic [In reply to] Can't Post

>Is this also called a "cross control" turn done by flying with both
> toggles down and letting one up to turn?

There are lots of names for it; I call them flat turns. I do them by initiating with one toggle then immediately bringing the other one down to "flatten" it. When you come out of the turn you should be able to let both back to full flight with not much change in speed. If you come out of the turn and are almost stalled, use less opposite toggle next time. If you come out of the turn and you dive (i.e. like a hook turn) use more opposite toggle next time.


ifallout  (D 27068)

Sep 8, 2002, 10:40 PM
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Re: [jessefs] don't panic [In reply to] Can't Post

they are very important, whatever name you call them, i say Flat Turn as well.

The more I see of it the more i like the AFP thing at SDC. I think it is a good idea ...


jessefs  (A License)

Sep 9, 2002, 7:50 AM
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Re: [ifallout] don't panic [In reply to] Can't Post

I think the AFP program is great, Did a lot of research at first on which route to take but it didn't take long to decide on this program. They are so thurough, and it seems as though the comfort and confidence level would be a lot higher for an AFP vs. AFF graduate (generally speaking for the average Joe) I know mine will be from this program.

jesse


alan  (D 17868)

Sep 9, 2002, 1:38 PM
Post #13 of 16 (1885 views)
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Re: [ifallout] don't panic [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Flat turns are incredibly easy, you just have to know to use them. I think they should be part of AFF.

I think they are. You do realize that AFF is not the only learning method? I believe that under the new ISP, which integrates SL, IAD, AFF and AFP, that flat turns are a required part of the canopy instruction.


ifallout  (D 27068)

Sep 9, 2002, 8:17 PM
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Re: [alan] don't panic [In reply to] Can't Post

yes i realize that AFF is not the only way... but it was the only way where i learned and i didn't know then of any except S/L and i didn't want to do that.

there is much to be desired about AFF but still it is getting better all the time. I recently checked out AFP as they do in Chicago and i like it better than AFF as an idea.


ifallout  (D 27068)

Sep 9, 2002, 8:18 PM
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Re: [jessefs] don't panic [In reply to] Can't Post

easy to believe. We did AFF but at SDD SDU jumps are required after AFF to before you get your license, 6 now i think, there were only 3 required when i went to AFF there.


jimmytavino  (A 3914)

Sep 12, 2002, 5:26 AM
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Re: [billvon] don't panic [In reply to] Can't Post

Good suggestion
Some jumpers have many many jumps under their belts without really understanding that there are alternatives to either full flight (toggles all the way UP) or to flared flight (toggles nearly all the way Down)....Simultaneous Toggles Depression, keeps you sqaure to your line of flight, allows you to "sink" the canopy with minimum loss of available landing area forward of where you are. i.e. if you are set up for your upwind final,,, and the winds get light,,, you must be sure not to overrun your landing area. Many poeple do just that and if it means landing in the scrub, or in the corn instead of on the grass landing zone,,, well that's survivable,,,,, but when overrunning your landing zone, puts you into buildings, or parking areas or heavy trees, or a parked aircraft,,, then bleeding off some altitude prior to landing should have been the right move.....
.OF COURSE!!!!, you need to develop the feel for this technique while at a higher altitude, and you MUST understand that
any "sinking" while under canopy must be concluded
with SOME altitude to spare... You should time it so that a return to full flight, or nearly full flight, can be accomplished high enough to establish some speed with which to flare..... Half brakes, or 3/4 brakes
is a good alternative to a hard toggle turn or spiral,
at a point in your descent when such moves can be costly.(plus in a deep brakes mode,,, you will not be changing your heading and you will still have a good view of your upcoming landing area....) When you go to brakes,,,, you may initially get some float, until your canopy settles,,,, so be aware if the landing area is crowded. not to intrude into anothers landing pattern..(by relatively "backing Up " into them).Check with your instructor, and watch and speak with any accuracy enthusiast ( if you can find one). Be sure that when you come up out of brakes, you have allowed enough time and altitude, for the initial canopy surge and pendulum effect, which you should anticipate, as your canopy resumes flight. then using this speed, smoothly transition it, to lift, as you flare....



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