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The Kansas City Skydiving Center, What Will Be The Affect?

 

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diverdriver  (D 19012)

Feb 13, 2006, 2:56 PM
Post #126 of 261 (1820 views)
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     Re: [davelepka] The Kansas City Skydiving Center, What Will Be The Affect? [In reply to]  

Ok, just checking.

There were no wild parties at the DZ. The "DZ" was a little trailer with tarp packing areas. There was NO alchohol allowed at the airport (I'm sure a couple may have had some in the parking lot. We know how people are.) But I know that it was never flagerant (sp?). Most days we ended and then went out to a resteraunt to eat in the area. There was no camping on the airport.

Don't remember anyone saying that neighbors were opposed to landing on farms. What I remember were other tenants at the airport making up stuff to make the operation look bad. Then the fatality happened (jumper tumbled through FXC firing and horseshoed with the free bag). Then suddenly the city required liability insurance that didn't exist (and still doesn't today) which is why I'm surprised at the turn of events at this airport. The city lawyer was saying that someone else could go through the roof of a passing mini-van on the highway next to the airport and the city could be sued for 3rd party liability since the DZ didn't have 1,000,000 dollars of 3rd party liability FOR SKYDIVING. It doesn't exist.

It's all very interesting. And yes, the last DZ closed 11 years ago. If they are serious about making a good, SAFE operation then I say go for it.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Feb 14, 2006, 6:04 AM
Post #127 of 261 (1712 views)
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     Re: [diverdriver] The Kansas City Skydiving Center, What Will Be The Affect? [In reply to]  

Quote:
If they are serious about making a good, SAFE operation then I say go for it.

This is what I'm saying. It's no secret that the DZ business is tough, with long hours and narrow margins. On top oif that, this guy has to deal with city council, and the related permits and leases, he has to overcome start-up costs, and the other DZ competing for business. Isn't that enough? Do the current DZOs really have to stand up in a public forum and spread soem 'questionable' informatoin about skydiving?

Quote:
There were no wild parties at the DZ.There was NO alchohol allowed at the airport

Don't remember anyone saying that neighbors were opposed to landing on farms.

What I remember were other tenants at the airport making up stuff to make the operation look bad.

So it's unlikley that the locals were remembering back 11 years, and all the trouble the DZ caused. It is possible that the airport tennants may have distributed fliers in order to keep the DZ out.

However, the actions of the current DZOs at the city coulcil meeting are pretty clear, and that sucks.


pjedei120

Feb 14, 2006, 9:54 AM
Post #128 of 261 (1646 views)
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     Re: [davelepka] The Kansas City Skydiving Center, What Will Be The Affect? [In reply to]  

 Was anyone who posted something about what was said at the city council meeting actually at the meeting to hear first hand what was said? (This wasnt really in reply to you dave)


HippieCain  (B 27196)

Feb 14, 2006, 10:42 AM
Post #129 of 261 (1618 views)
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     Re: [pjedei120] The Kansas City Skydiving Center, What Will Be The Affect? [In reply to]  

Along those lines, where the actual meeting minutes ever posted anywhere?


davelepka  (D 21448)

Feb 14, 2006, 11:08 AM
Post #130 of 261 (1598 views)
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     Re: [pjedei120] The Kansas City Skydiving Center, What Will Be The Affect? [In reply to]  

 
There was a newspaper article posted about the meeting. It didn't seem to have been written with any bias, more like a play by play, which is why I gave it some credit.

The interesting portions -

Quote:
Chris Hall, a safety and training adviser for the United Sates Parachute Association and the operator of a skydiving facility in Butler, expressed his concerns about the compatibility of the airport for a skydiving center, the Eriksmoens’ qualifications to operate a center and the city’s interpretation of FAA regulations, as well as statements made by Dianna Wright to The Democrat Missourian.

Hall said he had been in contact with the FAA and that the FAA had not been in contact with the city. Hall also said the FAA did not have final say in deciding if a skydiving center could be operated from the airport and that a safety inspection was not required by the FAA.


Tom Dolphin, operator of a skydiving center at Lexington Memorial Airport, raised similar concerns as to the use of the airport for skydiving. He encouraged the council to table its decision until they received more information on issues such as liability insurance, staff, parking, maintenance and fuel transportation.

“It’s not just as simple as having a plane and jumping out of it,” he said. “There’s much more involved here you (aldermen) need to be aware of.”

In my opinion, what really made me believe that these guys were not really 'playing fair' was -

Quote:
Alderman Barbara Walters said one issue she would like clarification on was the source of dissension. Was opposition for the skydiving school motivated by safety concerns or those with a personal stake in the issue, she questioned.

With no prior knowledge of local DZ politics, this Alderman was leary enough of the motivations of these two DZOs that she had the matter shelved unitl she could consult with an uninterested third party.

If you look at that article, plus the accounts of the locals who started this thread, it doesn;t look good for the current KC area DZOs.


(This post was edited by davelepka on Feb 14, 2006, 11:09 AM)


jdfreefly  (D 24037)

Feb 14, 2006, 11:53 AM
Post #131 of 261 (1575 views)
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     Re: [pjedei120] The Kansas City Skydiving Center, What Will Be The Affect? [In reply to]  

The second post in the thread is by someone claiming to be at the council meeting.


justthefacts

Feb 14, 2006, 11:56 AM
Post #132 of 261 (1574 views)
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     Re: [pjedei120] The Kansas City Skydiving Center, What Will Be The Affect? [In reply to]  

I was there and it was first suggested by the Eriksmoens themselves that the other DZO's/S&TA's were biased. They alone led one member of the council to this suspicion. At least 3 others wanted it tabled based on the letter from lifeflight that they had just received at this meeting. Mr. Eriksmoen also stated that a S&TA rating meant very little and anyone could get this rating with a simple call to uspa. The meeting minutes will be available after the next council meeting since the council needs to approve the minutes before it is made public.


Andy9o8  (D License)

Feb 14, 2006, 1:12 PM
Post #133 of 261 (1535 views)
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     Re: The Kansas City Skydiving Center, What Will Be The Affect? [In reply to]  

Come on, people, why else do you think the other DZOs were at that meeting if not to try to benefit from fucking over the new guy?
Altruism?
Love for the local community?
Maybe they were subpoenaed to testify against their will?
How about none of the above?
Trying to beat out the competition through advertising and a good product is one thing. But one DZ deliberately screwing another is just plain cannibalism. It hurts the entire skydiving community, and it stinks.

Note: I also have absolutely no dog in this fight.


diverdriver  (D 19012)

Feb 14, 2006, 1:38 PM
Post #134 of 261 (1513 views)
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     Re: [davelepka] The Kansas City Skydiving Center, What Will Be The Affect? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
However, the actions of the current DZOs at the city coulcil meeting are pretty clear, and that sucks.


Before I make that claim I would like to see the minutes from the council meetings. Seems the city doesn't put them up in a timely fashion. I know what some have paraphrased but I've seen differences in what was originally said about the meeting and how the article put it.

Still reserving judgement on the other DZOs.


diverdriver  (D 19012)

Feb 14, 2006, 1:41 PM
Post #135 of 261 (1509 views)
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     Re: [davelepka] The Kansas City Skydiving Center, What Will Be The Affect? [In reply to]  

Quote:
Hall said he had been in contact with the FAA and that the FAA had not been in contact with the city. Hall also said the FAA did not have final say in deciding if a skydiving center could be operated from the airport and that a safety inspection was not required by the FAA.


To me, this sounds like Chris is actually defending the DZs existence at Harrisonville. This was the same arguement we used last time when they kicked Horizon off the airport. The city had said we were unsafe and we said only the FAA could determine if any FARs were broken. Also, we were not required to be inspected at any time by the FAA before operating like a charter Part 135 would.


skydived19006  (D 19006)

Feb 14, 2006, 1:44 PM
Post #136 of 261 (1506 views)
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     Re: [diverdriver] The Kansas City Skydiving Center, What Will Be The Affect? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
However, the actions of the current DZOs at the city coulcil meeting are pretty clear, and that sucks.


Before I make that claim I would like to see the minutes from the council meetings. Seems the city doesn't put them up in a timely fashion. I know what some have paraphrased but I've seen differences in what was originally said about the meeting and how the article put it.

Still reserving judgement on the other DZOs.

Generally meeting minuets isn’t a transcript of the discussion that transpired at a meeting. It’s more of details, like motions, and actions taken.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Feb 14, 2006, 2:09 PM
Post #137 of 261 (1478 views)
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     Re: [diverdriver] The Kansas City Skydiving Center, What Will Be The Affect? [In reply to]  

Quote:
Hall said he had been in contact with the FAA and that the FAA had not been in contact with the city. Hall also said the FAA did not have final say in deciding if a skydiving center could be operated from the airport and that a safety inspection was not required by the FAA.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



To me, this sounds like Chris is actually defending the DZs existence at Harrisonville

You could read it that way. You could also read it as an attempt grab 100% of the authority in making a determination as to the safety of the location for a DZ (he did represent himself as a Safety and Training Advisor for the USPA. Seeing as the city council members most likely have no idea what an S&TA is or does, this actually seems like a good tactic to sway things into your favor. If that is what he did, I give him credit for throwing that shit at the wall to see if it would stick).


kcskydiver  (D License)

Feb 14, 2006, 2:27 PM
Post #138 of 261 (1458 views)
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     Re: [diverdriver] The Kansas City Skydiving Center, What Will Be The Affect? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Quote:
Hall said he had been in contact with the FAA and that the FAA had not been in contact with the city. Hall also said the FAA did not have final say in deciding if a skydiving center could be operated from the airport and that a safety inspection was not required by the FAA.


To me, this sounds like Chris is actually defending the DZs existence at Harrisonville. This was the same arguement we used last time when they kicked Horizon off the airport. The city had said we were unsafe and we said only the FAA could determine if any FARs were broken. Also, we were not required to be inspected at any time by the FAA before operating like a charter Part 135 would.

Diverdriver, you're getting pretty selective in the quotes that you pull from that article. Sure, that paragraph makes it sounds almost as though Chris may be supporting The Kansas City Skydiving Center, but the paragraph before that most definately does not.

"Chris Hall, a safety and training adviser for the United Sates Parachute Association and the operator of a skydiving facility in Butler, expressed his concerns about the compatibility of the airport for a skydiving center, the Eriksmoens’ qualifications to operate a center and the city’s interpretation of FAA regulations, as well as statements made by Dianna Wright to The Democrat Missourian. "

Tell me how that possibly "sounds like Chris is actually defending the DZs existence at Harrisonville."

I was at that meeting and I can say, with absolute certainty that neither Chris nor Tommy were there to defend this dropzone. The other things that Chris said were that the USPA requires automatic openers for students, and that KCSC would be unsafe in not requiring them for fun-jumpers. He also said that every other airport in the country that had a Medivac operation and a dropzone, were small airports, and all of the DZ's were small Cessna dropzones, and that an airport of this size could not support a large DZ. He went on about how the Ericksmoen's were inexperienced skydivers. From what I've heard, Paul has over 5,000 jumps and has worked at one of the largest dropzone's in the U.S.

Also, Justthefacts said that "Mr. Eriksmoen also stated that a S&TA rating meant very little and anyone could get this rating with a simple call to uspa." I don't know what meeting that you were at, but he definately did not say that. The only thing I heard Paul say was that Chris was also the owner of Skydive Kansas City and that in this area the DZO is typically also the S&TA. As far as I know, all of the DZO's in the KC area are also their DZ's S&TA. Paul definately never said that anyone could get this rating with a call to USPA. It seems to me, Justthefacts, that your username should be "Justtheliar".

-Tooth


(This post was edited by kcskydiver on Feb 14, 2006, 2:32 PM)


diverdriver  (D 19012)

Feb 14, 2006, 3:43 PM
Post #139 of 261 (1414 views)
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     Re: [kcskydiver] The Kansas City Skydiving Center, What Will Be The Affect? [In reply to]  

Well, I'm certainly not trying to be selective. And no, I wasn't at the meeting and you say you were.

Skydive Chicago had an experience with a medivac chopper being based there. It didn't last long even though all seemed to get along fine. As a pilot I was MOST concerned with an on-demand medivac being based there. SDC cranks loads hard on the weekends. We dump out lots of jumpers all at once and lots of tandems that take time to come down. This will most DEFINITELY impact response time of the medivac team. Now a caravan is not a twin otter and there will be only one plane up at a time (one caravan) but I can definitely see how it can be a concern. Chris is also a commercial pilot and I would imagine he has the same concerns. However, I'll agree that maybe it's not his responsibility to make that call. It's between the LifeFlight company already there and the new DZ to figure out what they can tolerate and what they can't.

The only issue before the city board seems to be whether to rent them space in the hangar. If I was on the city board my question would be "will they pay their rent and will they abide by the airport tenant covenants/lease agreement". Is there any other issue that the city board has control over?


darnknit  (D 12852)

Feb 14, 2006, 3:59 PM
Post #140 of 261 (1402 views)
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     Re: [kcskydiver] The Kansas City Skydiving Center, What Will Be The Affect? [In reply to]  

  i just thought i would mention some facts on this subject.

it is a fact that Paul Ericksmoen and i did our last work jump together today(and as always it was fun). it is a fact that he has accomplished some impressive things in his short time on this planet. it is a fact that he has matured quite a bit since i first met him. it is a fact that he and Jo are aware that this endeavor will be daunting and will teach them alot. it is a fact that the Ericksmoens are interested in promoting skydiving.

i admire them both for having the guts to try. Paul and Jo have many long and hard days ahead of them, but i have seen the way both of them can handle long and hard days. i think they are going to do alright.

just one more fact:EVEN IF YOU DO LIVE IN KANSAS, YOU'RE TIME WOULD BE BETTER SPENT SAY, FLYING A KITE, THAN WORRYING ABOUT ONE LITTLE BUSINESS THAT WILL EITHER SUCCEED OR FAIL.

blue stuff,
p.j.


diverdriver  (D 19012)

Feb 14, 2006, 4:05 PM
Post #141 of 261 (1396 views)
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     Re: [darnknit] The Kansas City Skydiving Center, What Will Be The Affect? [In reply to]  

Ummmm.... p.j.? You might not know this but this is a skydiving forum in where people come to discuss things related to skydiving. So, trying to tell people to go fly a kite instead of talking about things related to skydiving on a skydiving forum is like telling heroin addicts to shoot talcum powder when a big bag of the nasty sutff is sitting in front of them.


....not going to happen.



And please take this as light hearted sarcasm as I don't know you and would probably enjoy drinking a beer or any other beverage you like together.


jjrainyday  (D 25772)

Feb 14, 2006, 4:11 PM
Post #142 of 261 (1387 views)
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     Re: [diverdriver] The Kansas City Skydiving Center, What Will Be The Affect? [In reply to]  

Although he drinks his fair share of beer, PJ's hidden talent lies in the mean Bombay Sapphire martinis he mixes. Mmmnnn!


darnknit  (D 12852)

Feb 14, 2006, 4:20 PM
Post #143 of 261 (1375 views)
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     Re: [diverdriver] The Kansas City Skydiving Center, What Will Be The Affect? [In reply to]  

Quote:
Ummmm.... p.j.? You might not know this but this is a skydiving forum in where people come to discuss things related to skydiving.

that doen't seem to be the case in this thread.

Quote:
And please take this as light hearted sarcasm as I don't know you and would probably enjoy drinking a beer or any other beverage you like together.


see what i mean? if we ever do meet, i'll take a beck's.

blue stuff
p.j.


diverdriver  (D 19012)

Feb 14, 2006, 4:40 PM
Post #144 of 261 (1361 views)
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     Re: [diverdriver] The Kansas City Skydiving Center, What Will Be The Affect? [In reply to]  

Ok... as they say... "the other side of the story".

I did happen to just chat with Chris as he and I go back to the days of Horizon Skydiving at Harrisonvile and also worked together at SDC. I doubt very much he wants to get mired down in this debate but one thing he said to me (and I asked if I could post) is that he did not go to the meeting of his own innitiation. He was ASKED to advise the city on things related to skydiving. He was contacted by pilots who know the city council people originally. The city then asked for information on dropzones which he supplied to the council as asked. He was asked what concerns he might have if he was setting up on that airport and it seems that's exactly what he did. As for Tom I have no idea if he received the same invitation.

As I said before, I knew there was more to this story than was being posted here in the beginning.


Hue-janus  (F 5190)

Feb 14, 2006, 5:29 PM
Post #145 of 261 (1335 views)
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     Re: [kcskydiver] The Kansas City Skydiving Center, What Will Be The Affect? [In reply to]  

 
Diverdriver, you're getting pretty selective in the quotes that you pull from that article. Sure, that paragraph makes it sounds almost as though Chris may be supporting The Kansas City Skydiving Center, but the paragraph before that most definately does not.

Hey toot (that does mean fart in the wind doesn't it?)
seems you are being very selective also, makes your ass burn when your called on it! Doesn't it!

"Chris Hall, a safety and training adviser for the United Sates Parachute Association and the operator of a skydiving facility in Butler, expressed his concerns about the compatibility of the airport for a skydiving center, the Eriksmoens’ qualifications to operate a center and the city’s interpretation of FAA regulations, as well as statements made by Dianna Wright to The Democrat Missourian. "

Tell me how that possibly "sounds like Chris is actually defending the DZs existence at Harrisonville."

HUMMMMM maybe because he is looking at this with an open mind, and offering all involved a little considerstion, unlike your one sided biased speel.

I was at that meeting and I can say, with absolute certainty that neither Chris nor Tommy were there to defend this dropzone. The other things that Chris said were that the USPA requires automatic openers for students, and that KCSC would be unsafe in not requiring them for fun-jumpers.

Sounds like his opinion, reasonable, from his web site his city requires them, than why should his competator be allowed a different standard? We are discussing fair is fair here, correct?

He also said that every other airport in the country that had a Medivac operation and a dropzone, were small airports, and all of the DZ's were small Cessna dropzones, and that an airport of this size could not support a large DZ.

I'll wait for the transcript of the meeting before I would touch this one, doesn't seem right, you sure you weren't outside with the new DZ owners hitting the pipe before the meeting?

He went on about how the Ericksmoen's were inexperienced skydivers. From what I've heard, Paul has over 5,000 jumps and has worked at one of the largest dropzone's in the U.S.

Yes, he says he has 5000 jumps with a camera on his head shooting pictures, I'll check with USPA and the FAA for the regulation that says that this qualifies you to operate or manage a DZ. or are you operating under the asumption that if you blow one guy you are a cock sucker? And of course we all know the larger the DZ you jump at the more crediable your jumps are! Right?

Also, Justthefacts said that "Mr. Eriksmoen also stated that a S&TA rating meant very little and anyone could get this rating with a simple call to uspa." I don't know what meeting that you were at, but he definately did not say that.

I'll still wait for the transcripts!

The only thing I heard Paul say was that Chris was also the owner of Skydive Kansas City and that in this area the DZO is typically also the S&TA. As far as I know, all of the DZO's in the KC area are also their DZ's S&TA.

Seems reasonable! are you just pissed because no one has asked you to be the S&TA at their dz?

Paul definately never said that anyone could get this rating with a call to USPA.

I'll bet money that you can get this position with a phone call! Tooth place your bet or shut up! and by the way since when is a S&TA a rating? It is an appointed position you can get with just a phone call! Your showing your IQ boy! better power back before you blow out a eyeball!

It seems to me, Justthefacts, that your username should be "Justtheliar".

Now that we are getting to the crux of the post, did a little research at the DZ last weekend, got the DZO to go online and do some checking with USPA, seems our little buddy tooth is not a USPA member? or is he lying about who he is? also checked on the new DZO Joanna Ericksmoen not a USPA member? How was she jumping at crosskeys? If we are going to complain about what is fair and right, than we should air all of the truths! Anyone here explan this? I would like to know! OH I'am sure there is some unknown reason that will be revealed at the next city meeting! right! TOOT!

-Tooth aka Just a Bull Shitter!


rickanderson  (D License)

Feb 14, 2006, 5:44 PM
Post #146 of 261 (1322 views)
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     Re: [jdthomas] The Kansas City Skydiving Center, What Will Be The Affect? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
If there is an airport access problem I think the new DZO has the USPA blessing as Mr Bangs himself has help promote this dz with his blessing.

Cool! Is Glen going to manage this new DZ too?


jdthomas  (D License)

Feb 14, 2006, 6:14 PM
Post #147 of 261 (1301 views)
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     Re: [Hue-janus] The Kansas City Skydiving Center, What Will Be The Affect? [In reply to]  

 

"Hey toot (that does mean fart in the wind doesn't it?)"
Is some grade school kid writting this for you?





"Sounds like his opinion, reasonable, from his web site his city requires them, than why should his competator be allowed a different standard?"

Are they not in diffrent towns? Why should one city have to have the same standard as another' and why would it be a city consideration anyway?





"Yes, he says he has 5000 jumps with a camera on his head shooting pictures, I'll check with USPA and the FAA for the regulation that says that this qualifies you to operate or manage a DZ."

There is nothing that qualifies anyone to either own or manage a dz, there is no rating per say.
Any person can own and run a DZ, they do not even have to be a skydiver to do so. USPA nor the FAA have any regulation as to who can manage or operate a DZ.
hell even you hugh anus could own and or manage a dz if you had the desire and drive to do so.



.

"Your showing your IQ boy! "

And Hue you are showing yours and it makes you look like your fake last name..





"Now that we are getting to the crux of the post, did a little research at the DZ last weekend, got the DZO to go online and do some checking with USPA, seems our little buddy tooth is not a USPA member? or is he lying about who he is? also checked on the new DZO Joanna Ericksmoen not a USPA member? How was she jumping at crosskeys? If we are going to complain about what is fair and right, than we should air all of the truths! Anyone here explan this? I would like to know! OH I'am sure there is some unknown reason that will be revealed at the next city meeting! right! TOOT!"

When you where busy researching at your Dz did you see anywhere in those rules that you have to be a uspa member to make a skydive?
The answer to that is NO, you do not have to belong to the USPA to skydive!

You claim that Tooth may be lying about who he is, and you post under a false name yourself.. and then plea to air out the truths...... Hue you are just full of it aren't you.

Joe


gthomas101  (C 23874)

Feb 14, 2006, 6:50 PM
Post #148 of 261 (1282 views)
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     Re: [jdthomas] The Kansas City Skydiving Center, What Will Be The Affect? [In reply to]  

"When you where busy researching at your Dz did you see anywhere in those rules that you have to be a uspa member to make a skydive?
The answer to that is NO, you do not have to belong to the USPA to skydive! "

If I had my way I would spend the 50 bucks I sent to uspa on a couple of jumps, but its the game we play. If your going to be a USPA dropzone and get help from the top dogs there, shouldnt you have to play the game also? Thats just my opinion. Im not questioning you Joe but I think this is a valid point.
I dont know the new people but as with us all when we show up to a new dropzone all we have to prove ourselves is out log books and ratings and membership. When I go to a new dropzone I always check out whos plane and facilities I will be risking my life in. This is from experience not just something I thought up one day.


KCSkydivingCtr

Feb 14, 2006, 7:27 PM
Post #149 of 261 (1259 views)
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     Re: [Hue-janus] The Kansas City Skydiving Center, What Will Be The Affect? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
also checked on the new DZO Joanna Ericksmoen not a USPA member? How was she jumping at crosskeys? If we are going to complain about what is fair and right, than we should air all of the truths! Anyone here explan this? I would like to know!

The Kansas City Skydiving Center will require that all licensed jumpers be a current member of The United States Parachute Association. There will be no exceptions to this rule. We will have temporary USPA memberships available for visiting jumpers. By the way, Hugh, you may have an easier time finding information on myself or my wife (USPA# 164664, D-25772, Senior Rigger, and Static Line Instructor) if you spelled Eriksmoen correctly. If you have any other questions, please feel free to e-mail or call. See you all April 1st!

Blue Skies,
Paul Eriksmoen


CSpenceFLY  (D 25252)

Feb 14, 2006, 7:42 PM
Post #150 of 261 (1251 views)
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     Re: [KCSkydivingCtr] The Kansas City Skydiving Center, What Will Be The Affect? [In reply to]  

[homer simpson voice]Dooooh[homer simpsonvoice]

LaughLaughLaugh


.


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