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RSL REMOVED FROM JAVELIN H/C BY RIGGERS

 

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Poll: RSL REMOVED FROM JAVELIN H/C BY RIGGERS
DOES A RIGGER SHOULD REMOVE THE RSL FROM THE RIG IF THE OWNER IS ASKING HIM 38 / 33%
HOW MANY RIGGERS WILL REMOVE THE RSL. 34 / 29%
HOW MANY RIGGERS WILL NOT REMOVE THE RSL 7 / 6%
WILL YOU REFUSE TO PACK A JAVELIN WITH A REMOVED RSL 5 / 4%
HOW MANY RIGGERS ARE AWARE THAT REMOVING THE RSL IS NOT APPROVED BY SUN PATH INC. THE MFG. 15 / 13%
HOW MANY RIGGERS WOULD ASK THE OWNER TO KEEP THE RSL ON THE RIG FROM SAFETY REASON 17 / 15%
116 total votes
 
RIGGER  (D 7933)

Feb 5, 2006, 11:25 AM
Post #1 of 184 (4242 views)
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RSL REMOVED FROM JAVELIN H/C BY RIGGERS Can't Post

Smile Hi

The Javelin h/c is mfg. with an RSL system as a standart item on the rig.

The order form does not let you to choose Yes RSL or No RSL like with RI, RWS or Mirage & other h/c.

Sun Path does not approve the removing of the RSL from the rig.

I saw Javelins that the rigger removed the lanyard & I saw also that a rigger cut the 2 rings on the reserve container top flap which guided the reserve ripcord cable & the RSL ringe end.

The RSL is a SAFETY BACKUP system which might save the owner's life on the next jump.

I would like to here from you Riggers.

Safe Rigging !!!


(This post was edited by RIGGER on Feb 5, 2006, 11:27 AM)


sid  (D 20135)

Feb 5, 2006, 11:33 AM
Post #2 of 184 (4207 views)
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Re: [RIGGER] RSL REMOVED FROM JAVELIN H/C BY RIGGERS [In reply to] Can't Post

Shlomo, I think the rsl is an "option" whether Sunpath give you the option or not on th eorder form, it is an "optional extra" - removing it is the Jumper's discretion I think (though I've been wrong before)


airtwardo  (D License)

Feb 5, 2006, 11:36 AM
Post #3 of 184 (4203 views)
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Re: [RIGGER] RSL REMOVED FROM JAVELIN H/C BY RIGGERS [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The RSL is a SAFETY BACKUP system which might save the owner's life on the next jump.


Quote:

Or kill him in 'some' instances like CRW.

I think it should be optional and the jumpers discretion as to the use.


(This post was edited by airtwardo on Feb 5, 2006, 11:37 AM)


RIGGER  (D 7933)

Feb 5, 2006, 11:41 AM
Post #4 of 184 (4196 views)
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Re: [sid] RSL REMOVED FROM JAVELIN H/C BY RIGGERS [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile Hi Sid

SPI published a letter that says that the RSL is a part of the tested rig & should not be removed from the rig.

The "Option" should be on the order form to let the owner to choose it or not.

Removing of the RSL from the rig is a "Change not approved by the mfg."

Safe Rigging !!!


sid  (D 20135)

Feb 5, 2006, 11:49 AM
Post #5 of 184 (4185 views)
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Re: [RIGGER] RSL REMOVED FROM JAVELIN H/C BY RIGGERS [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Smile Hi Sid

SPI published a letter that says that the RSL is a part of the tested rig & should not be removed from the rig.

The "Option" should be on the order form to let the owner to choose it or not.

Removing of the RSL from the rig is a "Change not approved by the mfg."

Safe Rigging !!!

Just another reason to hate Sunpath (Just Kiddin' Derek) - I, personally, would and have removed an RSL at the request of the rig owner


Hooknswoop  (D License)

Feb 5, 2006, 11:54 AM
Post #6 of 184 (4176 views)
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Re: [RIGGER] RSL REMOVED FROM JAVELIN H/C BY RIGGERS [In reply to] Can't Post

Have you ever packed any other reserve besides a Safety Flyer into a Vector II?

Derek


RIGGER  (D 7933)

Feb 5, 2006, 11:55 AM
Post #7 of 184 (4174 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] RSL REMOVED FROM JAVELIN H/C BY RIGGERS [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile Hi

CRW is a different story & the RSL can be released at the shackle side.

You can see rigs that are not involved in CRW & riggers removed the RSL lanyard.

Yes, the simple RSL can save the owner life on the next jump!!!

I'll not move into the subject if the RSL is good or not, I would like to point the fact that riggers goes wrong by removing the RSL from the "Javelin"

Safe Rigging !!!


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Feb 5, 2006, 11:58 AM
Post #8 of 184 (4163 views)
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Re: [RIGGER] RSL REMOVED FROM JAVELIN H/C BY RIGGERS [In reply to] Can't Post

My rigger has not installed RSL with my canopy.

VectorII + Pilot 150 , WL 1.3+. I had several cut-aways.


diablopilot  (D License)

Feb 5, 2006, 12:01 PM
Post #9 of 184 (4153 views)
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Re: [Hooknswoop] RSL REMOVED FROM JAVELIN H/C BY RIGGERS [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Have you ever packed any other reserve besides a Safety Flyer into a Vector II?

No, no one in the history of rigging ever has, or they should loose their ticket. I'll bet Shlomo sure hasn't since that would be "wrong".

Actually they probably wouldn't loose their ticket, just a very stern man from the FAA would walk up and say "Bad rigger!, Bad, bad rigger!"

Laugh


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Feb 5, 2006, 12:02 PM
Post #10 of 184 (4150 views)
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Re: [RIGGER] RSL REMOVED FROM JAVELIN H/C BY RIGGERS [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
SPI published a letter that says that the RSL is a part of the tested rig & should not be removed from the rig.

Could you post a copy of this letter?


airtwardo  (D License)

Feb 5, 2006, 12:02 PM
Post #11 of 184 (4150 views)
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Re: [RIGGER] RSL REMOVED FROM JAVELIN H/C BY RIGGERS [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I would like to point the fact that riggers goes wrong by removing the RSL from the "Javelin"

Quote:

Okay...I see the point you're trying to make.

Hey Hook...what's the 'law' regarding someone other than a master rigger altering the configuration?


hookitt  (D License)

Feb 5, 2006, 12:06 PM
Post #12 of 184 (4146 views)
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Re: [RIGGER] RSL REMOVED FROM JAVELIN H/C BY RIGGERS [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
SPI published a letter that says that the RSL is a part of the tested rig & should not be removed from the rig.

What is the exact wording? "Should not" and "must not or TSO is void" are not the same.


RIGGER  (D 7933)

Feb 5, 2006, 12:07 PM
Post #13 of 184 (4145 views)
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Re: [Hooknswoop] RSL REMOVED FROM JAVELIN H/C BY RIGGERS [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile Hi Derek

If you ask regarding the Label issue ? The RWS approved the packing of others reserves as well in the Vector 2 h/c long time ago.

Safe Rigging !!!


Hooknswoop  (D License)

Feb 5, 2006, 12:21 PM
Post #14 of 184 (4127 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] RSL REMOVED FROM JAVELIN H/C BY RIGGERS [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Hey Hook...what's the 'law' regarding someone other than a master rigger altering the configuration?

Grey area. You could argue that if Sun Path does not explicitly state that it can be removed, then it can't be removed. IF you agree with that argument, then you should also agree that you cannot pack any other reserve into a Vector II than a Safety Flyer. This is where common sense should step in and the rigger should realize that a) It is up to the jumper to decide if they want an RSL or not, and 2) a jumper is safer with a PD-R reserve in their Vector II than they are with a Safety Flyer.

You could argue that since Sun Path gives instructions how to disconnect the RSL and it is the industry standard to remove it if the jumper does not want it, then you can legally remove it. It doesn’t hurt anything to remove it and cover the hook Velcro on the reserve riser with loop Velcro.

All riggers should realize that the FAA does not really care unless you are doing something outside the ‘norm’ anyway. They will probably step in and take action if you are doing something clearly un-safe or outside the ‘norm’ regardless of what the FAR’s say.

I had a conversation with the FAA about 6 months ago concerning altering mains. The Inspector’s viewpoint was 1) it is perfectly legal for a Senior Rigger to alter a main canopy (along with the person jumping it next, etc) and 2) He would take action if anyone was altering a main in an un-safe manner. His example was cutting a canopy in half, sewing it back together and giving it to someone with 20 jumps to go make a jump with.

In short, a rigger can not install/remove an RSL from a Javelin without fear of the FAA.

Derek


Hooknswoop  (D License)

Feb 5, 2006, 12:22 PM
Post #15 of 184 (4118 views)
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Re: [RIGGER] RSL REMOVED FROM JAVELIN H/C BY RIGGERS [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
highly discouraged and NOT recommended

That does not mean you cannot remove it. In fact, it means you can.

Derek


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Feb 5, 2006, 12:26 PM
Post #16 of 184 (4113 views)
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Re: [RIGGER] RSL REMOVED FROM JAVELIN H/C BY RIGGERS [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The RWS approved the packing of others reserves as well in the Vector 2 h/c long time ago.

Could you approve a copy of this approval?


hookitt  (D License)

Feb 5, 2006, 12:27 PM
Post #17 of 184 (4112 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] RSL REMOVED FROM JAVELIN H/C BY RIGGERS [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
The RWS approved the packing of others reserves as well in the Vector 2 h/c long time ago.

Could you approve a copy of this approval?

If there is such an approval, I will approve the approval if he doesn't.

Hope that helps.


RIGGER  (D 7933)

Feb 5, 2006, 12:29 PM
Post #18 of 184 (4107 views)
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Re: [phoenixlpr] RSL REMOVED FROM JAVELIN H/C BY RIGGERS [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile Hi

Javelin is the subject & not the Vector 2 without RSL.

Safe Jumps !!!


Hooknswoop  (D License)

Feb 5, 2006, 12:32 PM
Post #19 of 184 (4099 views)
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Re: [hookitt] RSL REMOVED FROM JAVELIN H/C BY RIGGERS [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
If there is such an approval, I will approve the approval if he doesn't.

I can approve your approval of the approval if you have any problems obtaining any of the aformentioned approvalsSly

Derek


(This post was edited by Hooknswoop on Feb 5, 2006, 12:32 PM)


sundevil777  (D License)

Feb 5, 2006, 12:51 PM
Post #20 of 184 (4081 views)
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Re: [RIGGER] RSL REMOVED FROM JAVELIN H/C BY RIGGERS [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I saw also that a rigger cut the 2 rings on the reserve container top flap

I don't see the benefit of cutting off the rings. Why not preserve the option to easily put it back on, in case you want to sell it for example.

On my Infinity, I was able to remove the RSL without even having to cover any velcro.

The use of the term "should" means nothing more than advise, it is not a requirement. I would think that you would know that.

So, what exactly was the wording from Sunpath regarding their not approving the removal of the RSL?


(This post was edited by sundevil777 on Feb 5, 2006, 12:55 PM)


RIGGER  (D 7933)

Feb 5, 2006, 1:21 PM
Post #21 of 184 (4054 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] RSL REMOVED FROM JAVELIN H/C BY RIGGERS [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile Hi

I'll have to ask Sun Path for publishing the letter here.

Safe Rigging !!!


RIGGER  (D 7933)

Feb 5, 2006, 1:25 PM
Post #22 of 184 (4050 views)
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Re: [Hooknswoop] RSL REMOVED FROM JAVELIN H/C BY RIGGERS [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile Hi

Call or mail Sun Path & ask.

Please let us know.

Safe Jumps !!!


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Feb 5, 2006, 1:34 PM
Post #23 of 184 (4042 views)
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Re: [RIGGER] RSL REMOVED FROM JAVELIN H/C BY RIGGERS [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Smile Hi

I'll have to ask Sun Path for publishing the letter here.

Safe Rigging !!!

Quote:
SPI published a letter that says that the RSL is a part of the tested rig & should not be removed from the rig.

Here you said they already published the letter. Where would one go to get a copy of this letter? If you are the only one that received a copy I don't think SP would mind if you post it for others to see.

As was mentioned before, "should" does not mean "must". I think this may be another case of your personal interpretation of the wording and not that of the FAA.

Sparky


(This post was edited by mjosparky on Feb 5, 2006, 1:35 PM)


Hooknswoop  (D License)

Feb 5, 2006, 1:35 PM
Post #24 of 184 (4041 views)
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Re: [RIGGER] RSL REMOVED FROM JAVELIN H/C BY RIGGERS [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Call or mail Sun Path & ask.

Please let us know.

I quoted your post before you deleted it where you said Sun Path only recommended the RSL. I am not going to contact Sun Path because I'm not worries about it. Clearly, you are worried about it. So far, from your poll, you are the only one. If you will not remove the RSL or pack a Javelin with it removed, that is your call.

You really should realize that your thoughts on rigging are exactly that, your thoughts. You don't sound like an un-safe rigger, but that doesn't mean that another rigger that does things differently is un-safe either.

Derek


(This post was edited by Hooknswoop on Feb 5, 2006, 1:42 PM)


Tink1717  (D 12524)

Feb 5, 2006, 2:54 PM
Post #25 of 184 (3999 views)
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Re: [RIGGER] RSL REMOVED FROM JAVELIN H/C BY RIGGERS [In reply to] Can't Post

Why bother with that degree of removal? Just disconnect it if you don't want it. Jeeze.Unimpressed


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