Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Looking at alti to much ???

 

First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 Next page Last page  View All

lisamariewillbe  (A License)

Jan 29, 2006, 7:17 AM
Post #1 of 92 (3180 views)
Shortcut
     Looking at alti to much ???  

So I have 58 jumps. On sdm.com I have 2 of my AFF jumps up. On them they show that after I am done with my objectives I stare at my alti, which then it was to make sure I pulled at the proper time. Fast forward to now. One of my experienced jumper friends said it was excessive on the videos and I explained that I still do similar. If at full altitude I do not look at the altitude for the first 8 to 10 seconds... then after that I look either every three to 5 secs or after every manuver. In addition once I track for 5 secs from the formation I stare at my alti till my exact pull time. Mostly because in a 5 sec track I pretty much dont lose altitude but still like to break off high (around 5500 to 6500 depending on the dive) So he says its excessive, I say I dont want to die and that its not excessive, he says other experienced jumpers will agree with him...

Id like to know what others think, granted I am not changing my personal safety things just because others think I read my altitude to much but Im curious as to what opinions are.

edit to add - he also states I will be laughed at because of this post. If that is your opinion and you find my safety choices funny Id just like to remind you of the no pull fatalities, the low pulls and the fact that I am still very much a baby in this sport.


(This post was edited by lisamariewillbe on Jan 29, 2006, 7:20 AM)


sdctlc  (D 16437)

Jan 29, 2006, 7:45 AM
Post #2 of 92 (3142 views)
Shortcut
     Re: [lisamariewillbe] Looking at alti to much ??? [In reply to]  

Well I am not overly worried about you looking at your alti but it does show a low level of comfort in the sport. Also what is the reasoning behing a ~6K breakoff, again a low comfort level with the sport? I am all for safety but you will limit the people you will have jumping with you with the constant high break alti..

As you get more jumps you shold have a growing internal clock and your eyes should be getting better at altitudes. but unless your propensity to stare at the alti is causing you to not track away far enough I dont care if you are looking at it at pull time. I would be concerned if it ws off and you did not actively use the other available cues....

$.02

Scott C.


lisamariewillbe  (A License)

Jan 29, 2006, 8:12 AM
Post #3 of 92 (3132 views)
Shortcut
     Re: [sdctlc] Looking at alti to much ??? [In reply to]  

Quote:
Well I am not overly worried about you looking at your alti but it does show a low level of comfort in the sport.

I am a single mother, it has taken me almost a year to get almost 60 jumps. I would not consider myself current for that reason. You are right I am not comfortable with the sport, and if I ever am comfortable with it I will quit. I am at peace with my progression, and I am at peace with my continued path of jumping, but no I am not comfortable.

Quote:
I am all for safety but you will limit the people you will have jumping with you with the constant high break alti..

Limiting who I jump with does not concern me. Everyone who jumps with me is aware of my skills or lack there of, and if they wanted to bump me off their dive flow it would not bother me. However I have never been asked to change my ways to stay on a jump, nor has anyone acted as if my breakoff was not right. If people want to jump with me that is great, if they dont because they feel I would take away from thier fun, then no problem I dont mind solos or hop and pops. Smile

Quote:
As you get more jumps you shold have a growing internal clock and your eyes should be getting better at altitudes.

I agree and they are I know from sight my decsion , and below , however, I do not just use my eyes. I have a tool that helps to continue to adjust my internal clock.

Quote:
you to not track away far enough I dont care if you are looking at it at pull time. I would be concerned if it ws off and you did not actively use the other available cues....

I track far enough, I can track and go vertical without going down much because I am tall and slim ... I get more then enough seperation on a 5 sec track. Since I break off early I have plenty of time after the track. I will adjust it when I feel it is time. It has only been today that I have even been aware that it is a "problem" to many, Im just glad it is not a problem to those I jump with.


Orange1  (B 2638)

Jan 29, 2006, 8:19 AM
Post #4 of 92 (3129 views)
Shortcut
     Re: [lisamariewillbe] Looking at alti to much ??? [In reply to]  

my 2c worth with about the same level of experience as you and after a recent 3-way (jumping with 2 people with 1600-1800 jumps each) comment was "you're hyper altitude aware"!! we discussed and what i am basically doing is carrying over what i 'learnt' on my coach jumps which is check alti after every dock - but i should think this will start sorting itself out as more and more points get turned Cool, and visual awareness gets more fine-tuned...

btw, did your friend say what was considered "normal" as opposed to your "excessive"?


lisamariewillbe  (A License)

Jan 29, 2006, 8:21 AM
Post #5 of 92 (3125 views)
Shortcut
     Re: [Orange1] Looking at alti to much ??? [In reply to]  

No he did not state that... He is a B.A.S.E. jumper as well, I assume he has uber awareness and that his internal clock is fine tuned and that he could jump without a altimiter.


Orange1  (B 2638)

Jan 29, 2006, 8:25 AM
Post #6 of 92 (3123 views)
Shortcut
     Re: [lisamariewillbe] Looking at alti to much ??? [In reply to]  

hmm. i partly understand this "internal clock" stuff but what happens when you jump at different DZs with different jump altitudes, or just at high altitudes AMSL where you fall faster? surely you should be double-checking??


FlyinseivLP2  (D 18628)

Jan 29, 2006, 8:50 AM
Post #7 of 92 (3096 views)
Shortcut
     Re: [lisamariewillbe] Looking at alti to much ??? [In reply to]  

I would say it is a bit excessive. It's great to be safe but iyou are holding yourself back from progressing. Also if spend that much time on your altimeter you are spending less time building a visual reference which can be more important than you altimeter. What if your altimeter malfuctions? Will you have enough cofidence in your visual refrence to realize this? Also if you can get enogh seperation from the group in 5 sec then there is no reason to break so high. Why not set your break off for 1500 above break off track for 5 sec and deploy. No reason to even look at the alti before deployment if you are only tracking for 5 sec anyways, you already know it's time to dump.


(This post was edited by FlyinseivLP2 on Jan 29, 2006, 8:52 AM)


lisamariewillbe  (A License)

Jan 29, 2006, 9:00 AM
Post #8 of 92 (3088 views)
Shortcut
     Re: [FlyinseivLP2] Looking at alti to much ??? [In reply to]  

Quote:
It's great to be safe but you are holding yourself back from progressing

I see your point, but I am progressing, my landings, exits, tracking and canopy control have progressed quite a bit since AFF. I am aware of everyone around me, my altitude as well as my EPs if needed. I do not rely on my RSL or AAD, I do not rely on others to take care of me in the air by pulling in place after a dive and I take full responsibility for each and every mistake I make in the air. My survival skills are what are most important to me at this point since my currency and my life do not allow me to jump every weekend mulitble times.

Quote:
Also spend that much time on your altimeter you are spending less time building a visual reference which can be more important than you altimeter.

Once again I see your point. One of my routines is in the plane, every 1000 feet I look at my alti then look out and down to help ingrain in me the visual. Would I feel comfortable jumping without a altimiter? No. Could I pull at what my normal pull alti is (4500) yes I actually think I could. Am I going to test that? No.

Quote:
Also if you can get enogh seperation from the group in 5 sec then there is no reason to break so high.

I break high because although I know the skill of those I jump with, shit happens and I like to be able to ensure I have enough seperation vertically, I also check where the airport is in relation to where I am at just incase I am long and need to leave my breaks set upon opening to make it back.

Quote:
Why not set your break off for 1500 above break off track for 5 sec and deploy. No reason to even look at the alti before deployment if you are only tracking for 5 sec anyways, you already know it's time to dump.

Im just not ready for that yet. Just as I am still loaded at .75 Id rather be considered boring then put on a list for the death pool, not that my DZ has that.


(This post was edited by lisamariewillbe on Jan 29, 2006, 9:08 AM)


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Jan 29, 2006, 9:54 AM
Post #9 of 92 (3064 views)
Shortcut
     Re: [lisamariewillbe] Looking at alti to much ??? [In reply to]  

One of my routines is in the plane, every 1000 feet I look at my alti then look out and down to help ingrain in me the visual.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Good habit.

Next flight, look out the window, guess your altitude, THEN confirm by looking at your altimeter.

I teach altimeter use from the other perspective.
I teach PFF students that altimeters, beepers, flashing lights, AADs, etc. are all just training aids in the process of learning how to "eyeball" altitude.
Along the way, I also expect them to develop an "internal clock."
The long term goal is for them to learn two or three different methods for determining altitude.


lisamariewillbe  (A License)

Jan 29, 2006, 9:55 AM
Post #10 of 92 (3062 views)
Shortcut
     Re: [riggerrob] Looking at alti to much ??? [In reply to]  

Quote:
Next flight, look out the window, guess your altitude, THEN confirm by looking at your altimeter.

I like that, I will do that from now on. I like that method much better. Thank you for your response.


Dolph  (D License)

Jan 29, 2006, 12:04 PM
Post #11 of 92 (3011 views)
Shortcut
     Re: [lisamariewillbe] Looking at alti to much ??? [In reply to]  

Keeping good track of your altitude is a good thing. Especially at the beginning of the jumping career where the internal clock is not as well developed. Just gonna nitpick your post a little Tongue

In reply to:
In addition once I track for 5 secs from the formation I stare at my alti till my exact pull time.

Usually I track for a bit, scanning to my sides and below, throw a quick glance at altimeter for verification, scan left-up/right-up and then throw the pilot chute if everything's clear. It's a good idea to check around while you track because for some unknown reason, some people just want to track in your direction Smile.

If you lock-on to your altimeter, you're less aware of your surroundings. There might be someone below you, or someone tracking at screaming speeds into your airspace. If you've checked your altimeter before breakoff, you know your approximate altitude and can use your MKII eyeballs to avoid flying stuff.

Your question isn't anything to laugh about I think. It's good to be safety conscious and think about what you're doing.


(This post was edited by Dolph on Jan 29, 2006, 12:06 PM)


sdctlc  (D 16437)

Jan 29, 2006, 3:15 PM
Post #12 of 92 (2950 views)
Shortcut
     Re: [lisamariewillbe] Looking at alti to much ??? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
I am at peace with my progression, and I am at peace with my continued path of jumping, but no I am not comfortable.

If you are at peace with your progression then why did you seek advice???? Did you want affrimation of your position, someone to tw\ell you that your correct???
You have been watching the dz.com boards long enough to know that you will get a responce but if it is somethig that your not willing to look at then why post it??? Again I stand by what I said and would hope that you do move forward and get more comfortable... Use the information that you ahve at hand and dont rely on mechanical equiptment as it is never 100%..

Scott C.


MakeItHappen

Jan 29, 2006, 3:17 PM
Post #13 of 92 (2946 views)
Shortcut
     Re: [lisamariewillbe] Looking at alti to much ??? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
If at full altitude I do not look at the altitude for the first 8 to 10 seconds... then after that I look either every three to 5 secs or after every manuver.

That is sort of normal at your experience level.
But really you should be doing a ground - then altimeter check.
The whole point is to learn what the ground looks like at each altitude.
If you skip looking at the ground, all you do is develop a dependancy on the altimeter.
Altimeters are known to break or stick. Even the lense may come off and flip that needle around. If you jump a digital there are other failure modes too.

That lock-on the altimeter thing some schools teach is something I do not particularly care for, athough I know a lot of places use it. It kind of goes against that mantra of 'teach the student what he'll being doing once licensed.'
Short COA - "ground- altimeter" is what students should be taught, not to lock on to altimeter.

In reply to:
In addition once I track for 5 secs from the formation I stare at my alti till my exact pull time. Mostly because in a 5 sec track I pretty much dont lose altitude but still like to break off high (around 5500 to 6500 depending on the dive) So he says its excessive, I say I dont want to die and that its not excessive, he says other experienced jumpers will agree with him...

Here's something else that may get you into trouble in the future.
Breakoff is NOT 'track for 5 seconds and then stare at altimeter.'
Breakoff is track to clear air before you reach your assigned pull altitude.
Breakoff is track to until you reach your assigned pull altitude.
You'll find out that most experienced jumpers do not even look at their altimeter from BO to pull. They are watching traffic and the ground.

Breakoff means to track until your assigned pull altitude. There is no stopping until you are waving off. If you do stop and stare at an altimeter you may end up backsliding. On future dives, a stop tracking procedure may find you colliding with someone that kept tracking.

Also what Rob said about altitude checks on the way up is important. It is equally, if not more important, to do that and recognize altitudes on the way down. Say it takes you 5 secs to guess altitude on the way up. On the way down - that is 1000 feet.

Most people will lose about a thousand feet in a 5 second flat track. The amount of horizontal separation depends on how well you track. One way to see how well you track is to have a photographer come to the center, level with where the formation was and film you tracking off. The photographer should be experienced enough to get out of your way in case you backslide while watching your altimeter.

At your experience level, breakoffs at 5500 to 6500 are excessive. You should be comfortable with a BO of 4500 on a 4-way say and pull at 3k. See SIM 6-1 for the USPA guidelines on BO altitudes. But if you are not comfortable yet with that then keep doing what you are. Just let others know you are pulling high. If you visit busy DZs you may not do be able to do that.

See also Altitude Awareness and Newbie Blues on SPSJ

I think you might also be convincing yourself that you have great altitude awareness, when you do not realize that most loss of altitude awareness (that leads to death or injury) happens after BO or after a pull on the main. After a main snivel or mal presents itself is when people loose track of altitude. Building in ground altimeter checks then can really save you from an AAD fire or low/no cutaway or pull.

.


lisamariewillbe  (A License)

Jan 29, 2006, 3:51 PM
Post #14 of 92 (2933 views)
Shortcut
     Re: [MakeItHappen] Looking at alti to much ??? [In reply to]  

Thank you for taking the time to write this.

Quote:
But really you should be doing a ground - then altimeter check.


On solos this is something I do, however when in a jump with others I tend to look less at the ground and do often rely on mine and others altimiters (if they are visable I make a quick look to see if they correspond)

Quote:
Breakoff is NOT 'track for 5 seconds and then stare at altimeter.'
Breakoff is track to clear air before you reach your assigned pull altitude

the reason I stop at 5 is that it is what I was taught in AFF, and through my coaching while getting my A. Since they are not track dives and since I want to make sure I am not getting in the way, I have always stopped at 5 , check where I am at then wait to pull, I also like to slow down my vertical speed since I have a decent/ strong track and do not want to chance a hard opening. However since reading this I think I will sit down with one of my instructors and recieve some additional training on this matter. For that I appreciate your reply, where as the bowling speeches I have recieved in PMs are not productive to my continued education in this sport, yours and a few others have offered me new insight.

Quote:
Most people will lose about a thousand feet in a 5 second flat track

The last time I jumped I lost approx 750 ft during the track which left an additional 750 ft till my pull alti.

Quote:
At your experience level, breakoffs at 5500 to 6500 are excessive. You should be comfortable with a BO of 4500 on a 4-way say and pull at 3k.

If I pulled at 3 K I would be pulling 1000 feet lower then most the experienced people at my DZ, I have pulled lower and had lower BO altis, but I always break off 1500 ft to 2000 ft prior to pull alti, to ensure my track is started while straight and stable, and well all the other things I have said. I would not be opposed to pulling at 3500 if that is what was safe to do... my biggest smile recently came when planning a solo, an instructor and two other more experienced people asked me on their 4 way... I stated as I do everytime Im pulling at 4500 , and the instructor looked at me and said "dude I am to, you see me, now come on " however this is at my home DZ where it is considered more the norm to pull a bit higher since they like to set up. Anytime I am visiting a DZ I verify where the organizer wants me to exit and inform all on the load where I am pulling.

Once again thank you very much for your response. Although some on here choose to insult and laugh because I try to be safe I appreciate the learning experience...

To the other poster who has said words of ill regarding my thread here. I think it is a sad day when students like myself are one day being insulted for exceeding their education, then the next day being mocked or laughed at because they are safe to an excess. Its also great when when the few up-jumpers like makeithappen, bigun, ect prefer to educate rather then insult. If I had 1000 jumps and 5 years in the sport while starting this thread that would be one thing, but Im not, I have jumped less then 60 times since March 14th of 2005 and choose to not accept the comments of those who think its okay to insult a jumper who errors on the side of safety and seeks continued education so that I can live to see 1000 jumps.


jimmytavino  (A 3914)

Jan 29, 2006, 3:57 PM
Post #15 of 92 (2929 views)
Shortcut
     Re: [lisamariewillbe] Looking at alti to much ??? [In reply to]  

being altitude aware is always good...
Though constant checking of your altimeter can be distracting....
It's one thing if you are on a solo, even a high altitude solo, but another thing if there are others in the air with you...
There was a concept which was 'born' decades ago and reffered to as "expanded awareness"...
To me it means , do what you need to do in freefall and under canopy, but always leave some of your brainpower AND eyesight available to stay tuned into what is going on around you.....
Zeroing in on your slot , from exit to docking on an 8 way,,,, may seem like a good idea....But in truth you should be closing to your slot,, while still able to scan and see the entire picture....What if someone else is also heading for that slot? ( sure it's your slot, but often people get distracted or forget, or just go to someone else's slot ). can you say collision???. You need to be looking and more importantly seeing things!!!.. I've been on many a jump where 3 or 4 of the jumpers, never even see,,, people who are right next to them in the formation, or people who dock right across from them.. They are fixated on either their grip, or the ground or their altimeter... Sure you should get altitude references at certain key times of a dive.... but not to the point of locking onto your instruments... that's sorta overkill. While you're tracking you could be looking around,,, cranking your neck both right and left, looking for others, checking to see who has deployed, and of course, looking down at the ground to see exactly where you are relative to where you percieve the 'spot' to be.... Are you waaaay long?,,,, waaaaaay short? etc etc. You might have to pull higher than you expected... Never wait to be under canopy to find out "where you are".....but also never bust your pull altitude, either...
If you exit at 13,500 or higher,, there is NO need to check alt. at 10 seconds out.... Your ati. checks might coincide with the progress of the dive you are doing. Check at the point that the first point is complete. If the dive calls for changes , then check each time the next point completes. If it is a 2 way drill dive....built in alti checks should be part of it... But you miss sooooo much if your eyes are busy with your altimeter, for a large percentage of the freefall. Try to get used to how long it actually takes to get from exit point to separation point. Remember if you are jumping with others,,, that all of you will be alti. conscious thus insuring that separation WILL start when it needs to...
Be sure not to miss all the great visuals which are there for us during the freefall portion of a jump...
Yes,,, your AFF training did emphasize altitude awareness, as it should. But now at 58 jumps your focus will begin to change, soas to concentrate on the tasks associated with whatever dive you may be enjoying, with friends. Quick alti checks are fine, and more of them the lower you get...but don't overdo it. Once you have identified that it's time to go,,,, just go!!! track and track hard . scan the sky for others, wave and wave hard, and then deploy...
and.... always keep a smile on your face...SmileCoolLaughSly jmy


yarpos  (D 373)

Jan 29, 2006, 4:46 PM
Post #16 of 92 (2911 views)
Shortcut
     Re: [jimmytavino] Looking at alti to much ??? [In reply to]  

good post and I agree with most of what you say...I would be a little cautious of the line about "Remember if you are jumping with others,,, that all of you will be alti. conscious thus insuring that separation WILL start when it needs to... ". As someone who, as a 200 jump wonder, whistled through 2 grand in a 4 way (olden days) because no one was checking break off height....I strongly recommend a habit of self reliance for break off.

good initial question and lots of good feedback I think

regards, steve


mdrejhon  (C 3268)

Jan 29, 2006, 4:55 PM
Post #17 of 92 (2907 views)
Shortcut
     Re: [jimmytavino] Looking at alti to much ??? [In reply to]  

In several jumps in the fall I have noticed that I look at the ground, and thought I didn't need to check my altimeter until after the next point or two, continuing my activity. (i.e. I'm 9000 feet, only 15 seconds after exit, and I clearly see I'm nowhere near pull time yet.) Especially tracking pratice solos, where it's a bit hard to glance at a hand-mounted altimeter too often, even though I mount it on the palm of my hand during tracking pratice to make it easier.

I seem to look at the altimeter quite a lot under 6000 feet though.

Yeah, I know what people mean about the internal clock. You do develop one over time. Sometimes during busy RW sessions, a lot of the time, the first wrist altimeter check (instead of ground check) is almost halfway through a skydive, followed by successively more frequent altimeter checks thereafter. Some people don't even need an altimeter at all, but I'm too newbie for that!

(And I'm aware I need to recalibrate my clock if and when I start freefly...)


(This post was edited by mdrejhon on Jan 29, 2006, 5:05 PM)


MakeItHappen

Jan 29, 2006, 5:53 PM
Post #18 of 92 (2880 views)
Shortcut
     Re: [lisamariewillbe] Looking at alti to much ??? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Quote:
But really you should be doing a ground - then altimeter check.


On solos this is something I do, however when in a jump with others I tend to look less at the ground and do often rely on mine and others altimiters (if they are visable I make a quick look to see if they correspond)

That is fine, but you need to develop that 'what the ground looks like at each altitude' - just in case you go low on some dive in the future and your altimeter breaks.

In reply to:
Quote:
Breakoff is NOT 'track for 5 seconds and then stare at altimeter.'
Breakoff is track to clear air before you reach your assigned pull altitude

the reason I stop at 5 is that it is what I was taught in AFF, and through my coaching while getting my A. Since they are not track dives and since I want to make sure I am not getting in the way, I have always stopped at 5 , check where I am at then wait to pull, I also like to slow down my vertical speed since I have a decent/ strong track and do not want to chance a hard opening. However since reading this I think I will sit down with one of my instructors and recieve some additional training on this matter. For that I appreciate your reply, where as the bowling speeches I have recieved in PMs are not productive to my continued education in this sport, yours and a few others have offered me new insight.

I doubt if you were taught that. In fact, the SIM Sec 6-1.C.2.b says
"flat track away to the planned deployment altitude" Cat F says to stop and change direction after 10 sec. when you are first learning to track.
There is no place in the SIM that says to stop tracking during a BO after 5 seconds. I am one of the current editors of the SIM. I read it continually throughout the year and suggest changes. I also do not know of any organizer anywhere that says you can stop tracking after 5 secs. The rule is track until your assigned pull altitude.

A good flat track, that you claim to have, will not increase your descent rate. On video you'll see flat trackers split horizontally, but have the same or even slower descent rate as the group. It's your total speed that increases in a good flat track. Just sit up as you wave off and you'll bleed off the horizontal component.

In reply to:
Quote:
Most people will lose about a thousand feet in a 5 second flat track

The last time I jumped I lost approx 750 ft during the track which left an additional 750 ft till my pull alti.

Just think that if you continue to track for the other 750 ft, you'd be twice as far away from the others. That would be safer, wouldn't it?

In reply to:
Quote:
At your experience level, breakoffs at 5500 to 6500 are excessive. You should be comfortable with a BO of 4500 on a 4-way say and pull at 3k.

If I pulled at 3 K I would be pulling 1000 feet lower then most the experienced people at my DZ,

What DZ do you jump at? I really don't think your observation is accurate.

In reply to:
I have pulled lower and had lower BO altis, but I always break off 1500 ft to 2000 ft prior to pull alti, to ensure my track is started while straight and stable, and well all the other things I have said. I would not be opposed to pulling at 3500 if that is what was safe to do... my biggest smile recently came when planning a solo, an instructor and two other more experienced people asked me on their 4 way... I stated as I do everytime Im pulling at 4500 , and the instructor looked at me and said "dude I am to, you see me, now come on " however this is at my home DZ where it is considered more the norm to pull a bit higher since they like to set up. Anytime I am visiting a DZ I verify where the organizer wants me to exit and inform all on the load where I am pulling.

Once again thank you very much for your response. Although some on here choose to insult and laugh because I try to be safe I appreciate the learning experience...

To the other poster who has said words of ill regarding my thread here. I think it is a sad day when students like myself are one day being insulted for exceeding their education, then the next day being mocked or laughed at because they are safe to an excess. Its also great when when the few up-jumpers like makeithappen, bigun, ect prefer to educate rather then insult. If I had 1000 jumps and 5 years in the sport while starting this thread that would be one thing, but Im not, I have jumped less then 60 times since March 14th of 2005 and choose to not accept the comments of those who think its okay to insult a jumper who errors on the side of safety and seeks continued education so that I can live to see 1000 jumps.

Actually, I think you are one of those jumpers that asks around until they can find some small sliver of advice that agrees with what they are thinking. The rest of the advice is ignored because it "doesn't fit". Reread what I wrote before because there is a lot that you are missing.

To put it in more concrete terms:

- Track until your assigned pull altitude
- Your track is probably 'average' for someone with 58 jumps (which isn't all that good in an absolute scale)
- Altitude awareness needs to continue under canopy or under a mal (total or partial)
- You have 58 jumps and are not the great safety guru - no matter what things you do that make you think you are. New jumpers injure or kill themselves at a greater rate than experienced jumpers, mainly because they lack experience.
- Jumpers with less than 100 jumps per year also injure or kill themselves at a higher rate than those with +200 jumps per year, no matter how safety conscience they are.

Did I scare you enough?

.


(This post was edited by MakeItHappen on Jan 29, 2006, 6:04 PM)


AFFI  (D 25538)

Jan 29, 2006, 5:55 PM
Post #19 of 92 (2879 views)
Shortcut
     Re: [lisamariewillbe] Looking at alti to much ??? [In reply to]  

Dont ever let anyone convince you to break off and initiate your main deployment sequence beneath an altitude you are uncomfortable with and not ready for. If someone insists you perform tasks while skydiving that you are uncomfortable with or not ready for then you need to find someone else to jump with.

Dont ever let anyone convince you to be less altitude aware than you feel you need to be to better ensure your safety. The internal clock others are talking about will take time to develop, the whole idea is to climb the various learning curves in skydiving and not develop habits that will end up putting you on the statistics list.

You dont just hop into a very hot bath, you ease yourself in and get used to the change from the norm, same with skydiving remember, you have the rest of your life to skydive so take your time. You only have 58 jumps right now, you are just getting started in your skydiving career so I will reiterate, Take Your Time By the time you have 580 jumps you will be much more in tune with the freefall environment and by then you very well may have forgotten more about skydiving that you have learned so far.

Take Your Time


lisamariewillbe  (A License)

Jan 29, 2006, 6:21 PM
Post #20 of 92 (2864 views)
Shortcut
     Re: [MakeItHappen] Looking at alti to much ??? [In reply to]  

I jump at the farm. Please feel free to ask them what the avg deployment altitude is for the avg regular there, Ill have you know that I know for a fact 3 of the instructors pull high on their avg fun jump. Trust me there is one thing I do not do and thats ignore the people I trust in this sport. Most those I trust are those who have seen me jump and know my skill or lack there of and appease my natural curiosty of flight and how it relates to me. Yes I ask alot of questions, as a matter a fact I just spent approx 45 mins on the phone with my rigger asking questions.

Nor have you scared me. What scares me (this is not directed at your post in any way shape or form but to those who choose to laugh and degrade in private pm's ) is when experienced jumpers negate those of us who are new to the sport. What scares me is that new jumpers (not myself, I dont mind getting flamed as words are not painful to me but a femur poking out would be) often feel they can not ask questions because of how some experienced jumpers react. I have seen so many people at my level start threads with "Please dont flame me" and then proceed to ask their question. The only stupid question is the one not asked, and the only stupid answer is the one that is used to degrade.

As a matter a fact, if you go through the stats on this very board, it is much safer to be a new jumper then experienced one. Granted new jumpers die from different things usually then experienced ones but if we go by the numbers, i am much safer then those who choose to hook turn, or jump postage stamps. I am as confident as I can be at my numbers and I am confident where I am going, but I shall never mistake confidence with skill, I have little skills, and thats the beauty of skydiving where I do because they are willing to teach the skills safely. I jump primarly at a dz that takes safety very serious and where the instructors lead by example. That is my perception.

We never got to a point where I discussed my altitude awareness while under canopy. Nor have you had the chance to see me track so although you are the "author" of the SIM and other publications you can not make a proper assesment to the degree of which I suck. I do appreciate the time you have spent typing this to me, and it has given me food for thought. However if your goal was to get me scared to the point I lower my break off, or attempt to do something different without the expressed jusitifcation by those I consider to be my instructors in this sport you have failed. Then again this whole thread is very good and leads to more education experience for me, which is my favorite thing in this sport, I prefer to expand my mind through varies sources, but in the end it is those who know me, and my passion, and who I trust with my education on a real life basis that I listen to. Once again thank you for your response to my thread.


Premier rwieder  (C 32349)

Jan 29, 2006, 6:30 PM
Post #21 of 92 (2856 views)
Shortcut
     Re: [lisamariewillbe] Looking at alti to much ??? [In reply to]  

I'd rather be doing what your doing, than what i catch myself doing every now and then. I think the worst thing i ever did was for get my altimeter on a couple of jumps, and intentionally on some others. But i've also jumped from altitude and found myself looking at my altimeter for the first time at 7K or so. (Not Good)
Quote:
"Know Thy Altitude"
When you see breakpff at 4500 AGL so many times, and you see 2500 AGL so many times, you learn what it looks like in the "Minds Eye" and the internal altimeter takes over, but don't fall prey to this.


lisamariewillbe  (A License)

Jan 29, 2006, 6:51 PM
Post #22 of 92 (2841 views)
Shortcut
     Re: Looking at alti to much ??? [In reply to]  

As a side note, I went back to my FJC notes I had taken,

From Glenn - "when tracking from the formation, a count of 5 will give sufficient seperation, the track must provide a min of 100 ft from the base if not more, and for all jumps once off AFF and prior to A do not jump with anyone who is not (I wrote not really big and underlined) a coach and who can not do at min 100 ft from BASE as well."

From solo 6 written in my log book by Mike "you went into your track without stopping the turn, stop, track, hold the track for a 5 1000 count, stop, stable, wave, pull, box"

Maybe I havent progressed fast enough to some, but I am still alive, and still able to jump. The day I stop learning, and start negating my training is the day I stop skydiving.


Icon134  (D 29820)

Jan 29, 2006, 7:09 PM
Post #23 of 92 (2830 views)
Shortcut
     Re: [sdctlc] Looking at alti to much ??? [In reply to]  

Quote:
As you get more jumps you shold have a growing internal clock...

Ok, I hear this a lot and although I agree if every jump you do with free fall is RW from 14,000 ft then certainly you are going to develop an outstanding feel for the length of time from exit to Break/deployment... but last season I did as many jumps from 10,000 ft (for 4-way competition which has on average 45-50 seconds to breakoff) instead of the 65-70 from 14k...

(never mind the fact that if I was to add in freeflying I would have 45-50 seconds from 14k... btw: I don't FF so this is an estimate...)

of course I don't have 3000 jumps... and I do periodically check my alti... (in fact I've always been told that I should do it between points... or aprox every 1000 ft which go figure is about 5.5 seconds @ standard belly flying speeds.)

Scott

Puts on flame retardant suit... Sly


yamtx73  (B 29458)

Jan 29, 2006, 7:12 PM
Post #24 of 92 (2828 views)
Shortcut
     Re: Looking at alti to much ??? [In reply to]  

I may be completely out of place answering here but I've been following this thread from the beginning and feel compelled to add my 2 cents.
Every jump I've made so far, when walking the thru the jump flow with my instructors one thing is repeated every time... make maneuver then check altitude before making next maneuver then check altitude again. At 5500 lock on altimeter and pull at 5000. Whether this is part of the USPA's guidelines or not this is something that every instructor I've jumped with has emphasised.
Does the OP check her alti too much? Not according to the way she was trained, as she (and eventually myself) gains experience there should be less reliance on equipment.
Some have stated (or insinuated) she is just looking for opinions that support her actions and ignore all others. To those I have to say I know LM, she will talk with her instructors about this as well. If your opinion differs from hers she will also bring those up with her instructors as well to get their thoughts on them.
To those who sent PMs ridiculing or laughing at the OP for her question... if you don't have the curteousy to post your comments here you probably should keep them to yourself.

*Putting on asbestos boxers now*


AFFI  (D 25538)

Jan 29, 2006, 7:15 PM
Post #25 of 92 (2825 views)
Shortcut
     Re: [Icon134] Looking at alti to much ??? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Quote:
As you get more jumps you shold have a growing internal clock...

Ok, I hear this a lot and although I agree if every jump you do with free fall is RW from 14,000 ft then certainly you are going to develop an outstanding feel for the length of time from exit to Break/deployment... but last season I did as many jumps from 10,000 ft (for 4-way competition which has on average 45-50 seconds to breakoff) instead of the 65-70 from 14k...

(never mind the fact that if I was to add in freeflying I would have 45-50 seconds from 14k... btw: I don't FF so this is an estimate...)

of course I don't have 3000 jumps... and I do periodically check my alti... (in fact I've always been told that I should do it between points... or aprox every 1000 ft which go figure is about 5.5 seconds @ standard belly flying speeds.)

Scott

Puts on flame retardant suit... Sly

I agree totally, I check my altimeter often as well - dont use audibles either. at times when the altimeter has failed the internal clock aspect is relied upon, but for the largest amount of jumps the altimeter is my primary.

Why try to re-invent the wheel when the round on works so well....


First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 Next page Last page  View All

Forums : Skydiving : Safety and Training

 


Search for (options)