Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
RSL, good or bad ?

 

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stillalive  (D License)

Jan 25, 2006, 9:15 AM
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RSL, good or bad ? Can't Post

 
Anybody have an opinion whether in any specific situation an RSL worsens your status instead of helping.

Eg. suppose you have multiple line twists and are in a spin, you cut-away and your unstable, on your back or completely mal positioned. Won┤t that situation cause your already deploying reserve to tangle or open improperly.

If altitude permiting, wouldn┤t it be better to cut-away stabilize, and then pull silver on your own.

Has any one had or heard about a bad experience with RSL?


tr027  (D License)

Jan 25, 2006, 9:20 AM
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Re: [stillalive] RSL, good or bad ? [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Search and you will find all the answers you seek. You should research and educate yourself, then make up your own mind regarding your own specific case.


azureriders  (D 28830)

Jan 25, 2006, 9:21 AM
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Re: [stillalive] RSL, good or bad ? [In reply to] Can't Post

If you haven't already, try a search. There are tons of info on this subject archived in these forums.


FrogNog  (C 34484)

Jan 25, 2006, 9:37 AM
Post #4 of 111 (2491 views)
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Re: [stillalive] RSL, good or bad ? [In reply to] Can't Post

I think RSLs are bad because they cause an unending stream of new posts on the same subject. Wink


tnscorcoran  (Student)

Jan 25, 2006, 9:47 AM
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Re: [stillalive] RSL, good or bad ? [In reply to] Can't Post

If you are lucky enough to have or be able to buy a Vector container, the skyhook RSL is a fantastic innovation.
http://www.relativeworkshop.com/pdt_skyhook.html
Although it won't be as quick as the Skyhook, any RSL will most likely open your reserve quicker than you can. That can save your life if you cutaway low.
One downside is you can deploy your reserve with line twists if you cutaway from a spinner - though more people have gone in from late reserve deployments 'waiting to get stable' than from problematic reserves due to RSLs.
Another is - one riser fails to release and your reserve deploys into the still attached riser.
So if you can get a skyhook, do so - it takes care of the 2 rsl problems mentioned. If not, they are still a good idea at least until you have had your first spining mal - then you can decide if you need one based on experience.


stillalive  (D License)

Jan 25, 2006, 10:09 AM
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Re: [tnscorcoran] RSL, good or bad ? [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Thanks! Cool


Ron

Jan 25, 2006, 10:29 AM
Post #7 of 111 (2458 views)
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Re: [stillalive] RSL, good or bad ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Do a search.

They have killed, and they have saved people.

Read the 2005 incident rollup I did in this forum for examples of both.

Reserve drills should be practiced until they are natural and BOTH handles are pulled all the time. RSLĺs save more people than they kill, but jumpers should place more focus on proper emergency procedures and drill them until they are perfect.


Tink1717  (D 12524)

Jan 25, 2006, 11:13 AM
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Re: [stillalive] RSL, good or bad ? [In reply to] Can't Post

You'll find that people either love or HATE the RSL. There doesn't seem to be an in between. I personally have them on all my rigs and use them in all modes except CRW. Read up on them and how they work and make an informed decision.


kelpdiver  (B 7)

Jan 25, 2006, 12:29 PM
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Re: [stillalive] RSL, good or bad ? [In reply to] Can't Post

as a student, you have to have one. And many here, even those who don't want one, advocate keeping the RSL until your first malfunction.

If you're shopping for a rig, get the RSL option. (or get a Vector) It's only $30, and you always have the ability to disconnect it.


grue  (D License)

Jan 25, 2006, 2:20 PM
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Re: [stillalive] RSL, good or bad ? [In reply to] Can't Post

When I had my cutaway at Eloy, my canopy was spinning, but not badly. I ejected (Wink) and pulled my reserve handle a moment after I felt myself go back into freefall (one hand per handle technique, in case anyone was going to ask), so of course the RSL beat me to the punch, so to speak. (but I had the handle pulled WELL before inflation or anything)

In any case, even though my canopy was spun up, the reserve opened clean and on-heading, via an RSL pin pull.


jheadley  (D 28710)

Jan 25, 2006, 2:48 PM
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Re: [stillalive] RSL, good or bad ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Jim Crouch, USPA's Director of Safety and Training, and a skydiver with a velocity 96 and 3500 jumps once told me that out of the 8 cutaways he's had, 7 of them were with traditional RSLs, and he's never had line twists on his reserve. The other cutaway was with a skyhook, and he had line twists on his reseve.


bob.dino  (E 2185)

Jan 25, 2006, 3:31 PM
Post #12 of 111 (2316 views)
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Re: [Tink1717] RSL, good or bad ? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm in-between!


diablopilot  (D License)

Jan 25, 2006, 3:39 PM
Post #13 of 111 (2312 views)
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Re: [stillalive] RSL, good or bad ? [In reply to] Can't Post

RSL good.

Quote:
If altitude permiting, wouldn┤t it be better to cut-away stabilize, and then pull silver on your own.

Fatality reports dictate that to be false. When cutting away from a spinning malfunction, you ARE NOT unstable the moment of release, making that the best window of opportunity for a clean reserve deployment.


diablopilot  (D License)

Jan 25, 2006, 3:43 PM
Post #14 of 111 (2311 views)
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Re: [tnscorcoran] RSL, good or bad ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
One downside is you can deploy your reserve with line twists if you cutaway from a spinner

You can have linetwists on your reserve falling flat as well. Just as easy to get them on a reserve as a main.

The misunderstanding that an RSL deployment from a spining malfunction is common. The fact is that line twists in that situction are most often caused by the jumper struggling to get belly to earth while deploying the reserve.


NelKel  (D 25024)

Jan 25, 2006, 3:53 PM
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Re: [diablopilot] RSL, good or bad ? [In reply to] Can't Post

The misunderstanding that an RSL deployment from a spining malfunction is common. The fact is that line twists in that situction are most often caused by the jumper struggling to get belly to earth while deploying the reserve.<<<

Exactly! Wink
I do not currently use an RSL, but had one on my first rig. I have had 2 cutaways. My first was a sport rig with out an RSL from a spinning linetwist. I did EP's one hand on each handle. No reserve problems. The second was on a Sigma Tandem, that RSL/Skyhook is fast! It felt as thought the reserve canopy was surging forward and backward for the first few seconds of inflation. Kinda like it deployed faster than it could inflate.


diablopilot  (D License)

Jan 25, 2006, 3:56 PM
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Re: [NelKel] RSL, good or bad ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
It felt as thought the reserve canopy was surging forward and backward for the first few seconds of inflation.

At the risk of going off topic, I think THAT phenomena is caused by the super deep setting of most tandem reserve's brakes to ensure the openings don't take too long.


hobbes4star  (B 24739)

Jan 25, 2006, 4:36 PM
Post #17 of 111 (2283 views)
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Re: [stillalive] RSL, good or bad ? [In reply to] Can't Post

here we go again.


tso-d_chris

Jan 26, 2006, 6:52 AM
Post #18 of 111 (2192 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] RSL, good or bad ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
When cutting away from a spinning malfunction, you ARE NOT unstable the moment of release, making that the best window of opportunity for a clean reserve deployment.

Not once conservation of angular momentum is taken into consideration. Experience (and Physics) tells me that no matter how hard you arch after cutting away a spinning mal, there is still a good chance you will tumble, which can be very bad during a deployment.

Still, pulling is more important than pulling stable, and RSLs save more lives than they take.


diablopilot  (D License)

Jan 26, 2006, 7:16 AM
Post #19 of 111 (2182 views)
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Re: [tso-d_chris] RSL, good or bad ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Who said anything about arching?Tongue


Premier skydiverek  (C 41769)

Jan 26, 2006, 9:38 AM
Post #20 of 111 (2153 views)
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Re: [tnscorcoran] RSL, good or bad ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
One downside is you can deploy your reserve with line twists if you cutaway from a spinner

OK, I am getting tired of this argument... ALL TSO'd reserves are test-dropped with THREE 360-degree twists in the lines. The reserve must be fully functional within few seconds (I forgot how many exactly). So, why are we worriend about the line twists on the reserves?!? They are designed to fly with them and "untiwist" from them quickly (TSO)!

The RWS Skyhook video shows it! - check it here:

http://www.skydivingmovies.com/...ion=file&id=2463

Does this settle the "line twists by RSL" argument Unimpressed?


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Jan 26, 2006, 9:41 AM
Post #21 of 111 (2151 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] RSL, good or bad ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
It felt as thought the reserve canopy was surging forward and backward for the first few seconds of inflation.

At the risk of going off topic, I think THAT phenomena is caused by the super deep setting of most tandem reserve's brakes to ensure the openings don't take too long.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

You are referring to the PD 360 reserves installed in Vector and Sigma Tandems. That weird brake setting is designed to SLOW the openings on PD 360s.
I never did enjoy the openings on PD 360 mains.


On the other hand, the Master 425 reserves - installed in Strong tandems - fly almost the same as F-111, 425 mains. They may open hard - at terminal - but there is none of that silly surging back and forth.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Jan 26, 2006, 9:45 AM
Post #22 of 111 (2146 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] RSL, good or bad ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
One downside is you can deploy your reserve with line twists if you cutaway from a spinner

OK, I am getting tired of this argument... ALL TSO'd reserves are test-dropped with THREE 360-degree twists in the lines. The reserve must be fully functional within few seconds (I forgot how many exactly). So, why are we worried about the line twists on the reserves?!? They are designed to fly with them and "untwist" from them quickly (TSO)!

The RWS Skyhook video shows it! - check it here:

http://www.skydivingmovies.com/...ion=file&id=2463

Does this settle the "line twists by RSL" argument Unimpressed?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Yes!
I have deliberately twisted the lines on a few reserve canopies - just before doing TSO drop tests.

For most people, the question is: would you rather suffer line twists on your reserve at 1500 feet or impact during line stretch?

I may have survived 20 reserve rides, but I just re-installed the RSL on my Talon 2.


tnscorcoran  (Student)

Jan 26, 2006, 9:50 AM
Post #23 of 111 (2144 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] RSL, good or bad ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes but I was refering to a regular RSL not a skyhook.
And the point was, RSLs save more lives than they kill, the positives outweighing the downsides.


Premier skydiverek  (C 41769)

Jan 26, 2006, 9:57 AM
Post #24 of 111 (2139 views)
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Re: [tnscorcoran] RSL, good or bad ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Yes but I was refering to a regular RSL not a skyhook.

Doesn't matter - you were implying that having line twists on a reserve is bad. I proved otherwise.


Premier wmw999  (D 6296)

Jan 26, 2006, 10:07 AM
Post #25 of 111 (2132 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] RSL, good or bad ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
you were implying that having line twists on a reserve is bad. I proved otherwise
I'd have to say that having line twists on a reserve is not as good as not having line twists on a reserve. Having a line-twisted reserve is way better than not having a reserve.

In those few seconds that it's untwisting one is probably not focusing as much on location, steering, and where the expensive freebag went. That's not as good as having all of the seconds.

But I use an RSL, because I think the chance of my losing altitude awareness is greater than the chance of an RSL killing me. I sure hope I never prove either of those.

Wendy W.


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