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Collapsable Pilot Chute on a Sabre 190. Thoughts?

 

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Big_Red  (E 2928)

Jan 19, 2006, 11:58 AM
Post #1 of 67 (2436 views)
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Collapsable Pilot Chute on a Sabre 190. Thoughts? Can't Post

I have just purchased a Javelin J4 with a Sabre 190 main. Currently it has a Non-Collapsable Pilot Chute. I have had some people suggest getting a Collapsable and others have suggested I not bother cause it is a 190.

Any thoughts?
Advantages one way or the other?
Is there anything I will do with my 190 that would require it?

I am weighing it down 1.21lbs/Sq ft.


P.S. Also looking for your thoughts on:
- Collapsable Slider?
- Leg Strap Mod?


rwieder  (C 32349)

Jan 19, 2006, 12:04 PM
Post #2 of 67 (2412 views)
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Re: [Big_Red] Collapsable Pilot Chute on a Sabre 190. Thoughts? [In reply to] Can't Post

Seek the advice of your instructors at your DZ. They are the ones that know you best and can probably offer you the best and most beneficial advice. Good Luck, Be Safe. That's the best advice i can offer you.


rasmack  (D 647)

Jan 19, 2006, 12:05 PM
Post #3 of 67 (2410 views)
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Re: [Big_Red] Collapsable Pilot Chute on a Sabre 190. Thoughts? [In reply to] Can't Post

If your profile is correct I would focus on a larger main. A 210 will fit in your J4. See this article for more info on canopy choices. Sorry for not answering your question.


Premier skybytch  (D License)

Jan 19, 2006, 12:06 PM
Post #4 of 67 (2407 views)
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Re: [Big_Red] Collapsable Pilot Chute on a Sabre 190. Thoughts? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd suggest selling that rig and buying something bigger.


flyinghonu  (A 45403)

Jan 19, 2006, 12:09 PM
Post #5 of 67 (2403 views)
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Re: [rasmack] Collapsable Pilot Chute on a Sabre 190. Thoughts? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If your profile is correct I would focus on a larger main. A 210 will fit in your J4. See this article for more info on canopy choices. Sorry for not answering your question.

I'm still a new jumper but DAMN!....you're already loading your canopy over 1:1 with only 12 jumps!!!Shocked

FYI: Most peeps here will tell you inquire with your instructors since most have not seen you fly and land your canopy.


rwieder  (C 32349)

Jan 19, 2006, 12:11 PM
Post #6 of 67 (2398 views)
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Re: [Big_Red] Collapsable Pilot Chute on a Sabre 190. Thoughts? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Your instructors are your best resource for determining what size canopies will be right for you as they have seen you fly and land a parachute, but ultimately you have to make your own decision.

An exerpt from Lisa's article.


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Jan 19, 2006, 12:15 PM
Post #7 of 67 (2392 views)
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Re: [Big_Red] Collapsable Pilot Chute on a Sabre 190. Thoughts? [In reply to] Can't Post

I was jumping around WL 1.2 and sometimes my collapsable PC was not collapsing and it followed a "funny" landing. IMHO collapsable PC is a must.

By the way you should not go over WL 1.0 <100 jumps.

Your upcoming medical bills may exceed your savings with that good deal of Sabre 190.


Premier skybytch  (D License)

Jan 19, 2006, 12:20 PM
Post #8 of 67 (2389 views)
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Re: [rwieder] Collapsable Pilot Chute on a Sabre 190. Thoughts? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey, thanks for quoting that. Now for the rest of the paragraph, which you somehow managed to avoid quoting.

Quote:
If someone is recommending a canopy size to you that you do not feel confident you can safely land in a worst case situation on your next jump, feel free to ignore their advice and buy something larger. Most experienced and knowledgable instructors, riggers and gear dealers will recommend that you do not exceed about 1.1 wingloading on your first canopy, and many will recommend staying at or below 1.0.

Context is important.


laughlinlisa

Jan 19, 2006, 1:02 PM
Post #9 of 67 (2357 views)
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Re: [Big_Red] Collapsable Pilot Chute on a Sabre 190. Thoughts? [In reply to] Can't Post

hey...i am new here....but i have jumped once....but i have to know...what is a pilot chute?.....did i have one when i did my tandem?


Big_Red  (E 2928)

Jan 19, 2006, 1:26 PM
Post #10 of 67 (2328 views)
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Re: Collapsable Pilot Chute on a Sabre 190. Thoughts? [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank for all the replies so far. I definitely plan on talking to my Instructor/Rigger about my Gear and the mods I want done to her but I still figured I would get peoples opinions.

As for the loading.
I come in about 195/200lbs without gear and I put my weight with gear at 230lbs on my profile.

My last jump was on a 220 and it went beautifully. In fact I downsized on my last 4 jumps from a 288 to a 220 (288, 260, 240, 220). I have not jumped in a few months due to the winter but my first few jumps back will be with that 220.

The reason I bought a 190 is because my Instructor/Rigger (and most people I spent last summer jumping with) indicated that a 190 would be a good starting Rig cause I am loading it 1:1 (or just above). Personally I think if I bought something any bigger I would spend more money trying to downsize again before the end of next summer.


(This post was edited by Big_Red on Jan 19, 2006, 1:28 PM)


CygnusX-1  (B 28761)

Jan 19, 2006, 1:29 PM
Post #11 of 67 (2320 views)
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Re: [laughlinlisa] Collapsable Pilot Chute on a Sabre 190. Thoughts? [In reply to] Can't Post

A pilot chute is what you throw out into the air stream to pull the main parachute out of the rig.

1) Yes you had one on your tandem.
2) If you got video, no it is not the drogue you may see trailing behind you while you were in freefall.
3) Welcome to the world of skydiving. I hope you don't plan on having any money for anything else in your life.Sly


funks  (B License)

Jan 19, 2006, 1:31 PM
Post #12 of 67 (2309 views)
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Re: [Big_Red] Collapsable Pilot Chute on a Sabre 190. Thoughts? [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Quote:
Any thoughts?

Why a 190? It is apparent you are an eager to learn type individual by the questions you have asked. You will be bored with the 190 in a matter of weeks. Don't waste your money, go straight to a 135. You'll thank me later.Smile


dqpacker  (D 32043)

Jan 19, 2006, 1:31 PM
Post #13 of 67 (2308 views)
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Re: [laughlinlisa] Collapsable Pilot Chute on a Sabre 190. Thoughts? [In reply to] Can't Post

The pilot chute is the litte round looking thing trailing behind the parachute. Tandem's have a drouge pilot chute, It is tossed out after exit and helps the tandem fall slower. It is than released at opening time by a drouge release.
Quote "I have never done it from behind...and I liked it..."
You already sound like a skydiver.
Hope you make more jumps.


rasmack  (D 647)

Jan 19, 2006, 1:52 PM
Post #14 of 67 (2277 views)
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Re: [Big_Red] Collapsable Pilot Chute on a Sabre 190. Thoughts? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
As for the loading.
I come in about 195/200lbs without gear and I put my weight with gear at 230lbs on my profile.
...
The reason I bought a 190 is because my Instructor/Rigger (and most people I spent last summer jumping with) indicated that a 190 would be a good starting Rig cause I am loading it 1:1 (or just above).
1.21:1 is not "just" above 1:1. If you look at Brian Germains most recent chart for suggested WL he puts you on a canopy of 220-230 as a minimum, while the recommendation is 230-260. I reemphasize that you can fit a 210 into your J4 as well as a 218 reserve. I have a Spectre 210 + PD-R 218 myself in a J4. It is possible.

You should never buy gear for your future skill level but rather for your present.

In reply to:
Personally I think if I bought something any bigger I would spend more money trying to downsize again before the end of next summer.

Well, maybe you just bought your gear a wee bit early then... (sorry)


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jan 19, 2006, 1:54 PM
Post #15 of 67 (2271 views)
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Re: [Big_Red] Collapsable Pilot Chute on a Sabre 190. Thoughts? [In reply to] Can't Post

>Personally I think if I bought something any bigger I would spend
>more money trying to downsize again before the end of next summer.

However, a 210 with a collapsible PC will give you better performance (better turns/better landings) than a 190 without a collapsible PC.

Collapsible PC's become important at loadings about 1:1, depending on jumper weight. If you need one and you don't have it, you'll get more sluggish turns, slower descents in a spiral and less powerful flares.


rwieder  (C 32349)

Jan 19, 2006, 1:55 PM
Post #16 of 67 (2271 views)
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Re: [skybytch] Collapsable Pilot Chute on a Sabre 190. Thoughts? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Hey, thanks for quoting that. Now for the rest of the paragraph, which you somehow managed to avoid quoting.

I took an exert that i thought would best answer his direct question. I'm not in the position to advise him on his wing loading, thus the quote stopping where it did. I apologise if you thought anything differently.

Well written article by the way.


Big_Red  (E 2928)

Jan 19, 2006, 2:43 PM
Post #17 of 67 (2225 views)
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Re: [rasmack] Collapsable Pilot Chute on a Sabre 190. Thoughts? [In reply to] Can't Post

I made sure to talk to my Instructor in the fall about the fact that I was buying gear this winter; and when it comes to Me, my skills, and my current Wing Loading I have faith in my Instructor (who has watched 11 of my 12 jumps) and am confident in his ability to look at my skill level and make an appropiate recommendation for Canopy Size.

As well, I will be flying a 220 in the spring for my first bunch of jumps and if they turn out to be a little scary not only will I continue to fly it but I am sure my Instructor would make the same recommendation.

I do appreciate everyones concern over my current Wing Loading...and please understand that I am reading what you are all writing and I am taking it all in however the purpose of this thread was to get peoples thoughts on some mods I have been thinking of in regards to my Rig.


(This post was edited by Big_Red on Jan 19, 2006, 2:44 PM)


Premier skybytch  (D License)

Jan 19, 2006, 2:46 PM
Post #18 of 67 (2222 views)
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Re: [rwieder] Collapsable Pilot Chute on a Sabre 190. Thoughts? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I apologise if you thought anything differently.

My bad. I interpreted it differently. Sorry. Blush

Thanks for the compliment, but a lot of what's in that article came from a number of threads and numerous posters in these forums. I can't really take 100% of the credit.


Premier skybytch  (D License)

Jan 19, 2006, 2:55 PM
Post #19 of 67 (2212 views)
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Re: [Big_Red] Collapsable Pilot Chute on a Sabre 190. Thoughts? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
however the purpose of this thread was to get peoples thoughts on some mods I have been thinking of in regards to my Rig.

Lots of us wish that threads we start would stay on topic. Somehow that never seems to happen. Laugh

A collapsible slider will eliminate that loud flapping noise over your head and will add a bit of speed. Collapsing the slider will also reduce wear on the lines at the links. IIRC, all Sabres came with a slider that can be collapsed; older ones have a velcro set up, newer ones have a dual kill line system. The dual kill line set up is much easier to collapse. I'd suggest this mod if yours has the velcro variety.

Not sure what you mean by leg strap mod. Can you elaborate?

Re: the collapsible p/c, billvon's post says it all.


(This post was edited by skybytch on Jan 19, 2006, 2:57 PM)


rasmack  (D 647)

Jan 19, 2006, 2:57 PM
Post #20 of 67 (2209 views)
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Re: [Big_Red] Collapsable Pilot Chute on a Sabre 190. Thoughts? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I do appreciate everyones concern over my current Wing Loading...and please understand that I am reading what you are all writing and I am taking it all in...
Fair enough. If I come off a bit strong it is just because i worry. Smile

In reply to:
...however the purpose of this thread was to get peoples thoughts on some mods I have been thinking of in regards to my Rig.

As for the PC, read this thread. I think post number five is very informative.

I don't know what you mean by leg strap mod.


rwieder  (C 32349)

Jan 19, 2006, 2:57 PM
Post #21 of 67 (2207 views)
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Re: [skybytch] Collapsable Pilot Chute on a Sabre 190. Thoughts? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Thanks for the compliment, but a lot of what's in that article came from a number of threads and numerous posters in these forums. I can't really take 100% of the credit.

It really is a well thought out and written article. Maybe one of the forum moderators could make it a sticky? It may help some of our newer students coming to our sport seeking information a resource without having to do a search. I guess things have changed in the short time i trained through the Learning Tandem Progression then the AFP training method. Before i made my grauduation jump i had my gear already ordered, i got a lot of help from my dive master and the DZO. I guess things have changed.


justinb138  (B 28762)

Jan 19, 2006, 3:14 PM
Post #22 of 67 (2197 views)
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Re: [skybytch] Collapsable Pilot Chute on a Sabre 190. Thoughts? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Not sure what you mean by leg strap mod. Can you elaborate?

I think he's referring to the ass-bungie cord alot of freeflyers have to keep the legstraps from slipping down.Wink


dharma1976  (D 28634)

Jan 19, 2006, 3:22 PM
Post #23 of 67 (2192 views)
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Re: [laughlinlisa] Collapsable Pilot Chute on a Sabre 190. Thoughts? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
hey...i am new here....but i have jumped once....but i have to know...what is a pilot chute?.....did i have one when i did my tandem?

well if you want to get done from behind again jsut let anyone at your local dropzone know and I am sure they will oblige

Dave


dharma1976  (D 28634)

Jan 19, 2006, 3:25 PM
Post #24 of 67 (2189 views)
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Re: [Big_Red] Collapsable Pilot Chute on a Sabre 190. Thoughts? [In reply to] Can't Post

well I am sure a lot of my medical bills and arthritus could have been avoided by flying larger canopies..it never hurts to err on the larger size...

my first rig was a J4 with a 179 safire 1 in it which I think actually measured to like a 160 which at the 210 out the door I was would put me at some rediculous wingloading for my lack of experience at the time...

add that to stupid mistakes like plowing in the ground when slider cought my toggle and I "flared"

so maybe a 210 would be a good idea

(And it will fit in there)

Cheers

Dave


crotalus01  (B 28932)

Jan 19, 2006, 3:48 PM
Post #25 of 67 (2169 views)
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Re: [dharma1976] Collapsable Pilot Chute on a Sabre 190. Thoughts? [In reply to] Can't Post

i have a sabre 190, loading it at 1.2/1. i have a collapsable pilot chute as well. i have jumped a sabre 190 with a regular pilot chute and to be honest i couldnt really tell a lot of difference. same thing with a collapsable or regular slider (have had both on my rig). however, i have been told they DO make a difference. anyhow, ask your instructors that have seen you fly, they will (hopefully) know whats best for you.
lots of folks here get upset about anyone loading over 1.0/1 with less than X number of jumps (usually around 100, which includes you and i). and i have to add with good reason judging from the incident reports. Unimpressed


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