Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Swooping and Canopy Control:
90,180 or 270

 

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m1keymike  (C 101230)

Dec 18, 2005, 2:45 PM
Post #1 of 90 (2539 views)
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90,180 or 270 Can't Post

whats the best turn to do? i currently do 180's and have nice consistant landings, just wondering what people think about different turns, pros and cons etc.


YISkyDive  (D License)

Dec 18, 2005, 6:14 PM
Post #2 of 90 (2480 views)
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Re: [m1keymike] 90,180 or 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

From Brian Germinas Radio show- I'd agree that the 270 is the best turn avaliable (when at the right skill level of course)

Thise turn- Unlike a 180- 360 gives you a very clear C-B-A point set up, letting you fly a right/ left hand pattern to adjust your accuracy points as needed to be at the right turn altitude at the right point.

I hope I didnt butcher his explanation- If you havent checked out his second radio show, check it on skydive radio, its really worth listening too.


johnny1488  (D 25453)

Dec 18, 2005, 6:32 PM
Post #3 of 90 (2473 views)
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Re: [m1keymike] 90,180 or 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

The best turn is the one where you dont kill yourself or anyone else.

I think the "best" turn would probably be a 90 givin that your blind spot is the smallest (if you have to make a turn that is).

What is the best as far as performance? Thats up to wing type, pilot preference and experience. Whatever you do you should be super proficient before you consider moving up in rotation.

Personally I prefer a right 270 in a left hand pattern. But again I dont think you should try 270's until you mastered 180s. Land away from the high traffic areas if at all possible. And never hook if something isn't perfect with traffic/your head.


(This post was edited by johnny1488 on Dec 18, 2005, 6:34 PM)


AggieDave  (D License)

Dec 18, 2005, 6:33 PM
Post #4 of 90 (2470 views)
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Re: [m1keymike] 90,180 or 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

I prefer a 270, that's just me though, I feel like I get the most speed and "power" from the canopy with that turn. The downside is to properly do a 270, you do your turn "against" the pattern. For instance a right hand pattern would leave you with a left 270 and so forth. Doing a 180 you either leave out the base leg of your pattern or turn against the pattern just prior to your turn. For instance if you do a right hand pattern with a base leg, you'll do a left 90 deg turn (toggle or whatever) to set yourself up to 180 back into the landing direction. The only turn that really leaves you in a standard pattern is a 90 deg turn.

So with that said, I often find myself doing 90s if I'm in a bit of traffic in the pattern, assuming its not so heavy as to require a standard non-swoop approach.

So firstly you have to decide what is the proper approach for the DZ you're jumping at and what is "socially accepted" at the DZ as well. Does that make sense?

There's a reason I like doing hop-n-pops and altitude clear and pulls, it gets me clean airspace to do exactly what I want where I want for the landing area. Obviously that's basically the only safe option if wanting to land in a direction other then the set direction for landing at the DZ.

Luckily at my DZ the normal Caravan load lets me pick my spot in the airspace (be it first down or in between groups) and get enough seperation to do a 270. Not always but usually.

Obviously the best thing to learn and comply with is that you don't *always* have to swoop. Its not worth your safety and the safety of those around you to rip an approach to swoop when you could cause serious injury or death due to traffic for whatever reason. Sure its really damned annoying to have someone loading their 190 at 1.0:1 spiral HARD after opening and clog the landing pattern, but that doesn't mean you get to disregard that jumper's safety and do your approach.

Anyways, sorry for the long reply, the info you probably wanted is at the top, hopefully someone else will read this and take something from it.


dharma1976  (D 28634)

Dec 19, 2005, 6:42 AM
Post #5 of 90 (2360 views)
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Re: [m1keymike] 90,180 or 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

see I still like my slow carving 180s and probably will for quite some time...although I have been pcking them up a bit...

Nnext shot to work on my 180s right hand...that will be on solo hop and pops...which will lead me into the left hand pattern 270...

Cheers

Dave


Cacophony  (D 23912)

Dec 19, 2005, 5:03 PM
Post #6 of 90 (2261 views)
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Re: [dharma1976] 90,180 or 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

I did about 800 180 degree turns before I went any higher and probably 400 90s before that. 180s are my fail-safe. If done correctly you can get a lot of power, but its easy to do the turn to fast and not get much speed at all. 270s seem to be the prefered by the experienced pilots I know including myself. Just remember that a well executed 90 degree is just as effective as a bad 270, with way fewer things to process. Get good at lesser degree turns before worrying about higher degree ones.

I have a lot of respect for Brian Germaine, but just because somebody says they prefer something, doesn't mean thats its always right for everyone. Tagle set one of the distance records using some crazy 675 degree turn or something like that. On the other hand, Moledski set the current record with a 270.


(This post was edited by Cacophony on Dec 19, 2005, 5:03 PM)


ntacfreefly

Dec 19, 2005, 5:25 PM
Post #7 of 90 (2257 views)
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Re: [Cacophony] 90,180 or 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
On the other hand, Moledski set the current record with a 270.

No he did not. It was a 450.

Blues.


twnsnd  (D 25389)

Dec 19, 2005, 6:51 PM
Post #8 of 90 (2246 views)
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Re: [ntacfreefly] 90,180 or 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
It was a 450.

450s are the heat!


marks  (D 22296)

Dec 19, 2005, 7:50 PM
Post #9 of 90 (2231 views)
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Re: [twnsnd] 90,180 or 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

you can get just as much out of a 270 as you can out of a 450.

that is unless your making 1000 jumps a year.


Martini  (D 23756)

Dec 19, 2005, 8:26 PM
Post #10 of 90 (2220 views)
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Re: [marks] 90,180 or 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm kinda partial to 360s. Do what you like best, be flexible and safe.


dploi

Dec 20, 2005, 11:02 AM
Post #11 of 90 (2138 views)
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Re: [m1keymike] 90,180 or 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

4. The 4 fucking rocks!


ccowden

Dec 20, 2005, 12:26 PM
Post #12 of 90 (2117 views)
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Re: [m1keymike] 90,180 or 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

I kinda like 276s.

But that's cuz I seem to overshoot my 270s!Tongue


CrazyL  (D 17699)

Dec 20, 2005, 10:13 PM
Post #13 of 90 (2046 views)
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Re: [m1keymike] 90,180 or 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

Each type of turn is a trick. Each trick is a toy in my toybox of tricks deliverable on any skydive. Given that the variables such as clear airspace, comfortable with landing area,time and space allow them. For a turn to become a trick it must be tried and true and comfortable to perform. Try 90's enough, it becomes comfortable and then becomes a trick. Landing a straight in appraoch using double front risers to gain speed and descent, letting off fronts then applying the brakes to plane out bleed off airspeed and the final shutdown, should also be a 'trick' in your toybox prior to going for higher speed landings. Nevertheless, I like combo's. A combo is more than one event(turn) to gain speed along with setting up for the final throw.


dharma1976  (D 28634)

Dec 21, 2005, 7:26 AM
Post #14 of 90 (2006 views)
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Re: [dploi] 90,180 or 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
4. The 4 fucking rocks!

yeah I know someone who loves there 7 degree turn...

she has been talking about upgrading to the 9 degree turn, but I guess thats why she has like 10,000+ skydives :-P

Dave


jeiber  (C 34238)

Dec 21, 2005, 7:28 AM
Post #15 of 90 (2006 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] 90,180 or 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
The downside is to properly do a 270, you do your turn "against" the pattern.

I'm just starting to do 270's, and that's a significant issue I'm trying to adjust to. Other jumpers flying a normal pattern have their backs to me as I'm diving from above and behind them....

Obviously much more awareness required on the swooper's part...

Jeff


ccowden

Dec 21, 2005, 8:05 AM
Post #16 of 90 (1995 views)
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Re: [jeiber] 90,180 or 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow! You really need to get that straightened out! YOU are responsible for ending up behind them and should never even start a turn if you don't have clear airspace to do so. If you are coming from above and behind someone, you have made a HUGE mistake!


(This post was edited by ccowden on Dec 21, 2005, 8:08 AM)


twnsnd  (D 25389)

Dec 21, 2005, 11:21 AM
Post #17 of 90 (1967 views)
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Re: [marks] 90,180 or 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
you can get just as much out of a 270 as you can out of a 450.

I won't argue with you there. However, using a 450, I can get the power I want without the pain associated with making an FX dive longer. Plus I think it is a really fun turn.Wink


frost  (D 25011)

Dec 21, 2005, 11:57 AM
Post #18 of 90 (1953 views)
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Re: [ccowden] 90,180 or 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If you are coming from above and behind someone, you have made a HUGE mistake!

Not if you are in tune with your body and have been racing motorcycles all your life.


ccowden

Dec 21, 2005, 12:10 PM
Post #19 of 90 (1950 views)
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Re: [frost] 90,180 or 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh, well sure. Then, in that case, you can do anything you want.


Crazy


marks  (D 22296)

Dec 21, 2005, 12:51 PM
Post #20 of 90 (1941 views)
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Re: [frost] 90,180 or 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
If you are coming from above and behind someone, you have made a HUGE mistake!

Not if you are in tune with your body and have been racing motorcycles all your life.

what about them? what if you go just under them and they freak and turn and die? does being in tune with YOUR body help them?

i think not.


frost  (D 25011)

Dec 21, 2005, 1:03 PM
Post #21 of 90 (1936 views)
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Re: [marks] 90,180 or 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
If you are coming from above and behind someone, you have made a HUGE mistake!

Not if you are in tune with your body and have been racing motorcycles all your life.

what about them? what if you go just under them and they freak and turn and die? does being in tune with YOUR body help them?

i think not.

Probably not. But having a sense of humor might help YOU


marks  (D 22296)

Dec 21, 2005, 1:14 PM
Post #22 of 90 (1929 views)
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Re: [frost] 90,180 or 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

my text. "when i write" always has a sense of humor..

why do you say that?

cant you tell i'm smiling.? and joking?

kind of just like I could tell you were joking with the motorcycle analogy.Crazy


frost  (D 25011)

Dec 21, 2005, 1:21 PM
Post #23 of 90 (1922 views)
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Re: [marks] 90,180 or 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
my text. "when i write" always has a sense of humor..

why do you say that?

cant you tell i'm smiling.? and joking?

kind of just like I could tell you were joking with the motorcycle analogy.Crazy

Then i guess you COULD tell


Premier Remster  (C License)

Dec 21, 2005, 1:33 PM
Post #24 of 90 (1917 views)
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Re: [marks] 90,180 or 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
kind of just like I could tell you were joking with the motorcycle analogy.

Sarcasm is hard to detect online. I got him, others may not. Dont get into a debate on the joke side of it.


Cacophony  (D 23912)

Dec 21, 2005, 6:27 PM
Post #25 of 90 (1881 views)
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Re: [ntacfreefly] 90,180 or 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
On the other hand, Moledski set the current record with a 270.

No he did not. It was a 450.

Blues.

Sorry. I must have been misinformed. You get my point though.


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