Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Wing Suit Flying:
Do you know of anyone stupid enough to have had a wingsuit cypres fire?

 


980  (D 980)

Dec 19, 2005, 4:49 AM
Post #1 of 19 (2186 views)
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Do you know of anyone stupid enough to have had a wingsuit cypres fire? Can't Post

 
I'm wondering if anyone has had a cypres fire while jumping a wingsuit?

If you know of one, please speak up.

If it was an unconscious skydiver or a mis-fire I'll retract the stupid comment, other than that I stand by it.

thanks


(This post was edited by 980 on Dec 19, 2005, 4:50 AM)


leroydb  (D 25743)

Dec 19, 2005, 5:35 AM
Post #2 of 19 (2154 views)
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Re: [980] ie: "the fact you had a wingsuit cypres fire was not intelligent" [In reply to] Can't Post

that sounds like a personnal attack on anyone that had a "wingsuit cypres fire." It would be nicer if your rename the thread so that you are not calling the person stupid, just your opinion of their action.

ie: "the fact you had a wingsuit cypres fire was not intelligent"

I am curious to why you "feel/think" it would be "stupid?"


(This post was edited by leroydb on Dec 19, 2005, 5:36 AM)


mccordia  (D 94775)

Dec 19, 2005, 6:47 AM
Post #3 of 19 (2115 views)
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Re: [leroydb] ie: "the fact you had a wingsuit cypres fire was not intelligent" [In reply to] Can't Post

I know a skydiver who was flying good enough NOT to not have his cypress fire while being too low..?

All jokes aside...whats the point in 'someone being too stupid'?
It seems the only answer you're looking for his 'yea...this guy...hahaha, he's stupid'

There are better ways of asking something if it's constructive criticism you want to give....


JeNnEjEnN  (D 26724)

Dec 19, 2005, 10:51 AM
Post #4 of 19 (2045 views)
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Re: [980] Do you know of anyone stupid enough to have had a wingsuit cypres fire? [In reply to] Can't Post

People I know that take it that low either don't have a cypress, or turn it offWinkPirate


mccordia  (D 94775)

Dec 19, 2005, 11:07 AM
Post #5 of 19 (2036 views)
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Re: [JeNnEjEnN] Do you know of anyone stupid enough to have had a wingsuit cypres fire? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
People I know that take it that low either don't have a cypress, or turn it offWinkPirate

I wasn't talking about an intentional low deployment, or a smart action either...

Witnissed a jumped fly way, WAY down low...lost altitude awareness...and luckely didnt activate his cypress with that action (and yes, going straight for his reserve would probably ALSO have been smarter in that situation...)

But what I mean is...people make mistakes....and we can either learn from it, or laugh about it and call them stupid a**holes...I prefer the 1st..


980  (D 980)

Dec 19, 2005, 11:32 AM
Post #6 of 19 (2025 views)
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Re: [mccordia] ie: "the fact you had a wingsuit cypres fire was not intelligent" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
All jokes aside...whats the point in 'someone being too stupid'?
It seems the only answer you're looking for his 'yea...this guy...hahaha, he's stupid'

There are better ways of asking something if it's constructive criticism you want to give....

there's no point in anyone being too stupid..

I went with that turn of phrase because I knew it would get more views and so a wider catch area for information.

It's not a personal attack directed at some anynomous person, if I was to indulge in personal attacks they would be aimed squarely at the likes of leroy for the kind of high quality, topical posts he's well known for.

and to clarify, if someone does end up knowing of someone in a wingsuit who:

-lost altitude awareness and had their cypres fire

- had a high-speed mal so low that their cypres fired

...then I would say that they did something stupid to get themselves into that situation.

We all do stupid things sometimes and that makes us stupid for that moment, whereas we might normally not be considered stupid.

Some people just tend to have a lot more of those moments and more frequently... Tongue

Quote:
But what I mean is...people make mistakes....and we can either learn from it, or laugh about it and call them stupid a**holes...I prefer the 1st..

I don't see why I can't do both?

certainly when I do something stupid I expect my friends to point, laugh and call me a stupid asshole, - it's all about having a sense of humour


(This post was edited by 980 on Dec 19, 2005, 11:35 AM)


JeNnEjEnN  (D 26724)

Dec 19, 2005, 11:53 AM
Post #7 of 19 (2010 views)
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Re: [mccordia] Do you know of anyone stupid enough to have had a wingsuit cypres fire? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
In Reply To
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


People I know that take it that low either don't have a cypress, or turn it off

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I wasn't talking about an intentional low deployment, or a smart action either...

I know... I was just being silly. TongueWinkLaughLaugh


mccordia  (D 94775)

Dec 19, 2005, 3:51 PM
Post #8 of 19 (1960 views)
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Re: [JeNnEjEnN] Do you know of anyone stupid enough to have had a wingsuit cypres fire? [In reply to] Can't Post

The story:

Sunset 2 way, already a year ago or so, but we where supposed to go to 10.000 ft, but due to a holding it became 6.000. I was being video-ed and photographed so I did some smiling, tried backflying for a sec to look cool (lost a few feet in the processTongue) turned over to my belly and went the other way to open my canopy (open somewhere around 3000 ft or so)

The guy filming me lost me during my backfly attempt (between 5000/4000 ft somewhere) as I did a sort of 180 the other way in my transition. He then spent the rest of his dive looking for me. Not paying attention to his altitude...He was not wearing any type of dytter, so he just flew....and flew....and flew....And I was under my canopy...watching him go deep......long.....deep...and deeper....Up untill the point where I almost thought he was never going to open.

He suddenly realized he was getting low when he started getting windmills in the corner of his eyeTongueCrazy and deployed straight away. One of the shortest canopy rides I've witnessed....that's for sure..

It struck me ass odd, cause even though I have a dytter...I make a lot of wingsuit dives without one (just my naked head and a pear of goggles) and always keep checking my alti through-out the dive...(unless maybe bigger slotted flocking jumps, where some people do rely on other jumpers and your dytter for breakoff sometimes)

But he flew an entire jump without ever checking his altitude untill he was near (what he thought) was opening-time...the different exit altitude got him...luckily his cypress didnt fire....

Even though we fly...the ground still gets a centimeter closer with every inch we move forward....keep track of you altitudeTongueCoolWink


leroydb  (D 25743)

Dec 19, 2005, 6:55 PM
Post #9 of 19 (1926 views)
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Re: [mccordia] Do you know of anyone stupid enough to have had a wingsuit cypres fire? [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree totally, this is one thing we can't allow to set in. Complacency is one of our worst enemies in this sport we call skydiving.


980  (D 980)

Dec 20, 2005, 3:23 AM
Post #10 of 19 (1848 views)
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Re: [leroydb] Do you know of anyone stupid enough to have had a wingsuit cypres fire? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I agree totally, this is one thing we can't allow to set in. Complacency is one of our worst enemies in this sport we call skydiving.

nice work stating the obvious there...

I think I actually prefer when you post a fugget because it's more entertaining...

So, what is your plan for combating complacency in skydiving?


(This post was edited by 980 on Dec 20, 2005, 3:24 AM)


980  (D 980)

Dec 20, 2005, 3:43 AM
Post #11 of 19 (1843 views)
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Re: [mccordia] Do you know of anyone stupid enough to have had a wingsuit cypres fire? [In reply to] Can't Post

thanks for posting that

it's slightly confusing, though, so I have a few questions:

Quote:
He suddenly realized he was getting low when he started getting windmills in the corner of his eye and deployed straight away. One of the shortest canopy rides I've witnessed....that's for sure..

this makes it sound like he pulled really low, like under 1000ft low? or have you just not seen very short canopy rides?


Quote:
luckily his cypress didnt fire....

OK, so he had a Cypres.

Was it turned on?

Was it set correctly?

Was he actually open above activation altitude, or did he fly through activation altitude with an armed Cypres, too slow to activate the Cypres and managed to get a flying canopy without ever picking up enough descent rate to activate the Cypres?

Or did he smoke it so low the Cypres disarmed itself again (130ft) and he somehow managed to get a flying canopy before hitting the ground real hard?

there are a few important parameters (all are approximate AGL) here, namely:

1100 ft - the altitude your Cypres will arm if it calculates you are exceeding 78 mph descent rate

78mph - the calculated descent rate threshold for arming and also for firing your Cypres

750ft - the altitude your Cypres will fire at if it is armed and you are exceeding 78mph calculated descent rate

130ft - the altitude that your Cypres will disarm, regardless of descent rate

apparently (was told by someone at SSK) 90% of Cypres fires occur above 750 ft AGL, because once armed (over 78mph descent rate at 1100ft), your Cypres will ALSO fire if it senses a sufficiently rapid and/or large change in air pressure - like the one you would get going from a horizontal orientation to a vertical one as your main sits you up...

curious to see some more info!


mccordia  (D 94775)

Dec 20, 2005, 4:04 AM
Post #12 of 19 (1832 views)
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Re: [980] Do you know of anyone stupid enough to have had a wingsuit cypres fire? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
when he started getting windmills in the corner of his eye

this makes it sound like he pulled really low, like under 1000ft low? or have you just not seen very short canopy rides?

I've seen verry short canopy rides when talking about BASE, but in normal skydiving I concider being in the sadle below 1000 ft 'short' yea.
The shortest I've seen in a skydive that was planned as a pull at 3000 ft kinda thing...


In reply to:
OK, so he had a Cypres.
Was it turned on?

Yes..(I did a full pin-check on him, and vice-versa)

In reply to:
Was it set correctly?

Holland is quite flat...so there's no real f*ckups to be had in turning it on with differences in ground/elevation.
So I gues...yea...it was set correctly...

In reply to:
did he fly through activation altitude with an armed Cypres, too slow to activate the Cypres and managed to get a flying canopy without ever picking up enough descent rate to activate the Cypres?

He pulled around 1000 ft (alti visable in video) and was in the sadle at around 900/800ft or so..(opened up in a twist)

So he didn't quite make the activation altitude...but definately skimmed the edges...

Whats 'funny' is that even when looking at the video, you get no real 'ground-rush' que that the ground is getting closer and closer...
*edit to add*
The flyer is also a base-jumper, which might also account for less 'fear' of low altitude..??


(This post was edited by mccordia on Dec 20, 2005, 4:06 AM)


980  (D 980)

Dec 20, 2005, 4:37 AM
Post #13 of 19 (1826 views)
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Re: [mccordia] Do you know of anyone stupid enough to have had a wingsuit cypres fire? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
He pulled around 1000 ft (alti visable in video) and was in the sadle at around 900/800ft or so..(opened up in a twist)

So he didn't quite make the activation altitude...but definately skimmed the edges...

thanks for the extra info

given how little altitude the deployment used and that the jumper does base, I assumed he pulled in full flight and kept flying

what kind of canopy was he jumping?

I ask, because, from my wingsuit deployments on my Nitro120 if I pull in full flight, I'll go from wingsuit flight to flying canopy in very little altitude (say 250-350ft for that canopy), without ever exceeding the 78mph required to arm the Cypres. I know this from data from my Suunto X6, Neptune and Pro-tracks.

it's kinda my point with this thread, flying a modern day wingsuit and having a soft opening canopy and pulling in full flight will mean you could pull so low that you would have had a Cypres fire were you not in the wingsuit.

it's one of the many reasons that we should be even more altitude aware on wingsuit jumps (I got a second audible this year) and we should pull higher than on other skydives

we should never rely on just one way to keep track of altitude either, I always check my visual altis against each other and other people's altis on the plane ride, I have two audibles to remind me, I have a flight plan and I know where I should be at what altitude and I know what kind of freefall time to expect on the jump, so I start that stopwatch in my head when I exit the door... Laugh


voodew1  (D 25988)

Dec 20, 2005, 4:54 AM
Post #14 of 19 (1817 views)
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Re: [980] Do you know of anyone stupid enough to have had a wingsuit cypres fire? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
it's kinda my point with this thread, flying a modern day wingsuit and having a soft opening canopy and pulling in full flight will mean you could pull so low that you would have had a Cypres fire were you not in the wingsuit.

Beware -- that cypres is smart, it knows when your low

I know of this one guy who's name I will leave out as its not my place to bust his balls but he did and intentional low pull (may have been a little lower than planned)

After checking the protrack graph there was no speed greater than 55mph below 1400' he pulled in full flight (graph shows this also) and cypres fired with main deployment at 840'

Maybe the jumper in question will step up and take it like a manSmile

Oh and by the way he landed without injury ---- the lesson he learned -- turn off the cypres for low pulls as cutters and repacks are costly!!!!!!


980  (D 980)

Dec 20, 2005, 5:04 AM
Post #15 of 19 (1810 views)
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Re: [voodew1] Do you know of anyone stupid enough to have had a wingsuit cypres fire? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
After checking the protrack graph there was no speed greater than 55mph below 1400' he pulled in full flight (graph shows this also) and cypres fired with main deployment at 840'

What kind of canopy was he jumping?

I did say soft opening canopy as this should largely avoid the pressure change spike that will fire an armed Cypres (exactly what happened to that jumper, as they were open above 750ft)

I also don't trust the protrack graphs for that info.

the lesson he learned should have been: adjust your hard deck so that you will always have a flying canopy above 1100 ft if you want to avoid a Cypres fire... Laugh


Professor  (D 26067)

Dec 20, 2005, 8:44 AM
Post #16 of 19 (1758 views)
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Re: [980] Do you know of anyone stupid enough to have had a wingsuit cypres fire? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What kind of canopy was he jumping?

Spectre 170.

In reply to:
I did say soft opening canopy as this should largely avoid the pressure change spike that will fire an armed Cypres (exactly what happened to that jumper, as they were open above 750ft)

Could you go into more detail on this? What do you mean "pressure change spike", and why do you feel there would be one? Where did you get hear about this?

In reply to:
I also don't trust the protrack graphs for that info.

Well, I attached it anyway. Laugh One thing that is clear, is that the cypres and protrack 'think' very differently.

In reply to:
the lesson he learned should have been: adjust your hard deck so that you will always have a flying canopy above 1100 ft if you want to avoid a Cypres fire... Laugh

The lesson is simply "Don't be stupid." I was and I got burned.
Attachments: lowpullweb.JPG (106 KB)


Brains  (D License)

Dec 20, 2005, 1:30 PM
Post #17 of 19 (1719 views)
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Re: [Professor] Do you know of anyone stupid enough to have had a wingsuit cypres fire? [In reply to] Can't Post

I still think you are crazy as shitLaugh but it was kinda cool watching you hook it with your reserve pc flying around behind you.TongueLaughLaugh


portillo  (A License)

Dec 22, 2005, 8:01 AM
Post #18 of 19 (1604 views)
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Re: [Brains] Do you know of anyone stupid enough to have had a wingsuit cypres fire? [In reply to] Can't Post

watch the end of this vid. not a wingsuit but a cypresfire with a tracksuit.

http://www.pressurized.at/website_skydive_low.wmv

dru


notsane  (D 9465)

Dec 22, 2005, 12:23 PM
Post #19 of 19 (1578 views)
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Re: [portillo] Do you know of anyone stupid enough to have had a wingsuit cypres fire? [In reply to] Can't Post

I've got to admit that I never look at my altimeter until I'm open. I depend on my eyes first and my audible second to tell me the altitude. Passing those tandems too is a pretty good indicator that you're under 5000 feet. After so many wingsuit jumps my time-sense is completely lost ... some jumps are 85 seconds and some are 150 seconds, so you sure can't depend on that.



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