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Airline jet fly under during freefall

 

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dixieskydiver  (C 234523)

Oct 17, 2005, 8:32 PM
Post #1 of 78 (4606 views)
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Airline jet fly under during freefall Can't Post

Video Here
http://www.skydivingmovies.com/...;id=2832&d=addgp Shocked

Thanks Dave and the Skydivingmovies.com crew. Smile

Note that I was preceded out of the plane by a 3 way, 2 way and two solo belly fliers. In the full res version you can see on of the belly fliers is almost directly over it though I pass him while sitflying. Those other guys must have been and say they were pretty close. This happened on Saturday (Oct 15th) at Skydive Carolina!


(This post was edited by dixieskydiver on Oct 17, 2005, 8:35 PM)


Premier NWFlyer  (D 29960)

Oct 17, 2005, 8:41 PM
Post #2 of 78 (4566 views)
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Re: [dixieskydiver] Airline jet fly under during freefall [In reply to] Can't Post

Umm... nice spotting? Unsure


dixieskydiver  (C 234523)

Oct 17, 2005, 8:45 PM
Post #3 of 78 (4556 views)
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Re: [NWFlyer] Airline jet fly under during freefall [In reply to] Can't Post

Permanent NOTAM filed with the FAA, that jet reaaaaaallly shouldn't have been flying that low through our airspace, but yes this is true. However at the rate it was moving it probably was hard to see when the first guy stuck his head out the door to look around. Keep in mind I was the 7th person out of the plane.


(This post was edited by dixieskydiver on Oct 17, 2005, 8:45 PM)


dustin19d  (D License)

Oct 17, 2005, 8:45 PM
Post #4 of 78 (4551 views)
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Re: [dixieskydiver] Airline jet fly under during freefall [In reply to] Can't Post

So do you guys just jump out on the green light with out clearing airspace or did you have someone who's blind spoting the AC.


dixieskydiver  (C 234523)

Oct 17, 2005, 8:49 PM
Post #5 of 78 (4532 views)
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Re: [dustin19d] Airline jet fly under during freefall [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
So do you guys just jump out on the green light with out clearing airspace or did you have someone who's blind spoting the AC.

That would be a no. If you watch the video you'll see how fast it is moving and if it was 35-40 seconds earlier when the spotter had his head out of the door it would have been nearly impossible to pick that jet out as far away as it would have been.


riddler  (D 10234)

Oct 17, 2005, 8:51 PM
Post #6 of 78 (4523 views)
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Re: [NWFlyer] Airline jet fly under during freefall [In reply to] Can't Post

I've been able to see prop planes at 500-1K that might be a threat to jumpers. I doubt I could see a jet when it's 5-10K - too high, too fast, no good profile, and the sky or horizon as a background. Flying at 500 MPH toward you at about the same level, you might see a dot if you stared right at it for a few seconds.


Premier NWFlyer  (D 29960)

Oct 17, 2005, 8:53 PM
Post #7 of 78 (4520 views)
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Re: [dixieskydiver] Airline jet fly under during freefall [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
So do you guys just jump out on the green light with out clearing airspace or did you have someone who's blind spoting the AC.

That would be a no. If you watch the video you'll see how fast it is moving and if it was 35-40 seconds earlier when the spotter had his head out of the door it would have been nearly impossible to pick that jet out as far away as it would have been.

I guess the question would be when did you, or the jumpers in the group or two before you, notice it. It's a damn cool video, but it would scare the piss out of me if I saw that in freefall. Well, maybe not from the distance you saw it, but the guys who exited before you might have been a lot closer. It's a nice reminder to all of us that a quick look down before exit is always a good thing, regardless of who did the spot. Conditions, as you noted, can change *very* quickly.


(This post was edited by NWFlyer on Oct 17, 2005, 8:54 PM)


dixieskydiver  (C 234523)

Oct 17, 2005, 8:56 PM
Post #8 of 78 (4511 views)
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Re: [NWFlyer] Airline jet fly under during freefall [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I guess the question would be when did you, or the jumpers in the group or two before you, notice it. It's a damn cool video, but it would scare the piss out of me if I saw that in freefall. It's a nice reminder to all of us that a quick look down before exit is always a good thing, regardless of who did the spot. Conditions, as you noted, can change *very* quickly.

Well I was on my back for the first few seconds of freefall checking out the plane (I just got my camera helmet, such things are still fun). You can see me latch on to the plane as soon as I get in a sit, it was metallic and thus very shiny. ("LOOK something shiney!!" "Where!?!") I didn't really talk alot with the guys that were in front of me but it freaked them out pretty good. There was alot of yelling and jumping up and down once we landed.


sinker

Oct 17, 2005, 8:56 PM
Post #9 of 78 (4510 views)
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Re: [dixieskydiver] Airline jet fly under during freefall [In reply to] Can't Post

can't see it... what gives? i can see any other skydiving vid... I think I have the codecs and all, what could be the prob?


dixieskydiver  (C 234523)

Oct 17, 2005, 8:57 PM
Post #10 of 78 (4506 views)
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Re: [sinker] Airline jet fly under during freefall [In reply to] Can't Post

I encoded with Divx , make sure you have the latest codec pack.


sinker

Oct 17, 2005, 8:59 PM
Post #11 of 78 (4500 views)
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Re: [dixieskydiver] Airline jet fly under during freefall [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I encoded with Divx , make sure you have the latest codec pack.

i thought I did... how do i get the latest?


dixieskydiver  (C 234523)

Oct 17, 2005, 9:00 PM
Post #12 of 78 (4497 views)
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Re: [sinker] Airline jet fly under during freefall [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.divx.com I guess. Video codecs are really the devil though, mine were screwed up for the longest time.


dustin19d  (D License)

Oct 17, 2005, 9:05 PM
Post #13 of 78 (4481 views)
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Re: [dixieskydiver] Airline jet fly under during freefall [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
if it was 35-40 seconds earlier when the spotter had his head out of the door it would have been nearly impossible to pick that jet out as far away as it would have been.

I don't know about you but I spot MY jump. I don't let the first group out clear my airspace. NEVER ASSUME!


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Oct 17, 2005, 9:08 PM
Post #14 of 78 (4467 views)
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Re: [dixieskydiver] Airline jet fly under during freefall [In reply to] Can't Post

> If you watch the video you'll see how fast it is moving and if it was
>35-40 seconds earlier when the spotter had his head out of the door it
>would have been nearly impossible to pick that jet out as far away as it
>would have been.

I count 9 seconds between your exit and your first seeing the jet. 9 seconds at 250 knots is about 2/3 of a mile. You can see things that are 2/3 of a mile away.

A collision between a skydiver and an aircraft can not only kill the jumper and the people on the airplane, but could get skydiving in this country shut down nearly instantly. It is imperative that everyone clear their own airspace before jumping.


sinker

Oct 17, 2005, 9:08 PM
Post #15 of 78 (4467 views)
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Re: [dixieskydiver] Airline jet fly under during freefall [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
http://www.divx.com I guess. Video codecs are really the devil though, mine were screwed up for the longest time.

thanks for your help... i'll let you know if it works...


sinker

Oct 17, 2005, 9:13 PM
Post #16 of 78 (4452 views)
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Re: [dixieskydiver] Airline jet fly under during freefall [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
http://www.divx.com I guess. Video codecs are really the devil though, mine were screwed up for the longest time.

ok, it worked... holy hell man, that's insane!!! way too close for comfort... what was that, an MD-80?

did the jump pilot or the dz tower know of airline traffic in the area? (pardon my atc ignorance, I don't know alot about atc)


(This post was edited by sinker on Oct 17, 2005, 9:15 PM)


napaguy99  (D 28158)

Oct 17, 2005, 9:18 PM
Post #17 of 78 (4441 views)
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Re: [dixieskydiver] Airline jet fly under during freefall [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Permanent NOTAM filed with the FAA, that jet reaaaaaallly shouldn't have been flying that low through our airspace, but yes this is true.

NOTAMS do not prohibit pilots from flying through a parachute release zone. Is it allowed? Yes. Is it neccssarily wise? Probably not. Checking NOTAMS can get to be a mundane procedure. Pilots won't always catch every single NOTAM. If it's a scheduled carrier that flies through that neighborhood all the time, then shame on them for not knowing. If it was an "out-of-towner" then he wouldn't already be familiar with that dropzone.

If the jump pilot was talking with Approach, then they should have been vectoring the jet around the DZ.

Most DZs are also depicted on VFR charts. But guess what, there are a lot of planes out there that are not required to carry those charts. Some planes aren't even required to talk to anybody.

Just don't automatically think that because a NOTAM is filed, the airspace is yours and yours alone. It's a big sky and we all have to share it.

I guess my bottom line is that there are a lot of yokels out there that are trying to put you through a prop or jet engine. Watch each other's asses and CHECK YOUR SPOT.


dixieskydiver  (C 234523)

Oct 17, 2005, 9:20 PM
Post #18 of 78 (4431 views)
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Re: [dustin19d] Airline jet fly under during freefall [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
if it was 35-40 seconds earlier when the spotter had his head out of the door it would have been nearly impossible to pick that jet out as far away as it would have been.

I don't know about you but I spot MY jump. I don't let the first group out clear my airspace. NEVER ASSUME!

So in the typical 4-5 seconds you have between groups you simultaneously check your ground spot, maintain eye contact on the group previous to your own to make sure you have good seperation but you also manage to check every vector around for aircraft who should be notified by radio that there are jumpers in the airspace of a permanently filed skydiving dropzone.

This of course includes those vectors that would involve you looking underneath the plane to get the other 180 degrees of the spectrum depending on the jump plane. While this was only a solo, there is also getting everyone in position at the door to be accounted for as well if it is a multi person jump.

You may be quick to say that YOU would have seen it because you are so much safer but I seriously doubt that you would have seen it unless it was straight down or back behind the plane in the line of sight through the other groups that had already jumped.


dustin19d  (D License)

Oct 17, 2005, 9:29 PM
Post #19 of 78 (4412 views)
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Re: [dixieskydiver] Airline jet fly under during freefall [In reply to] Can't Post

Im not saying that I would have seen it. But I have seen to many people just folow the first group out. And yes you can Check everything you have just said in the time between groups, And I hope you give more than 5 sec. You can make is sound like a lot to do by typing lots of words, why don't you try using the Active voice and get to the point.


bob.dino  (E 2185)

Oct 17, 2005, 9:30 PM
Post #20 of 78 (4409 views)
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Re: [dixieskydiver] Airline jet fly under during freefall [In reply to] Can't Post

...don't forget the exit count!

I can't speak for anyone else, but when doing 4-way I've maybe a second to look down as I climb out. After that it's about the exit.


dixieskydiver  (C 234523)

Oct 17, 2005, 9:37 PM
Post #21 of 78 (4392 views)
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Re: [dustin19d] Airline jet fly under during freefall [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Im not saying that I would have seen it. But I have seen to many people just folow the first group out. And yes you can Check everything you have just said in the time between groups, And I hope you give more than 5 sec. You can make is sound like a lot to do by typing lots of words, why don't you try using the Active voice and get to the point.

Well, were every group to thoroughly check the spot and examine every quadrant of the sky, of course taking the time to get on their bellies so as to check underneath the plane as well, I think you may have a problem getting out an Otter load in one pass. Not to say that I'm not guilty of following the first group out, especially if I'm doing formation work and the time between groups is short. Also I typically follow what the jump pilot says for time between groups unless I think it is really ridiculous. 5 seconds is pretty standard under standard conditions.


SudsyFist

Oct 17, 2005, 9:43 PM
Post #22 of 78 (4381 views)
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Re: [dixieskydiver] Airline jet fly under during freefall [In reply to] Can't Post

I've had the delightful opportunity to stare down a GA pilot from ~300ft away whilst hitting line stretch, non-verbally communicating with him my thoughts on his ripping through our jump run (the good ol' double-bird). For some reason, this video seemed disappointingly tame to me. LaughTongue

Glad no one became an involuntary hood ornament on that one. And the lesson learned is a familiar one: Look both ways before crossing the street!


napaguy99  (D 28158)

Oct 17, 2005, 9:53 PM
Post #23 of 78 (4370 views)
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Re: [bob.dino] Airline jet fly under during freefall [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok, I made my post after reading the others but not having seen the video yet and now I have some more to add.

First off, make your videos easier to see!! I've downloaded plenty of movies without having to get some DIVX. Find a way to make yours work without it, please.

Anywho, back to the meat and potatoes. What was the first group doing between "door" and "exit"?? Picking their noses? That's the time to be looking out for traffic. Does your pilot only give the door seconds before exit? If so, you may talk to him about adding a few more seconds to that.

Next, unless you were on a downwind jumprun, you really should have had some more time between groups. The 2 way left on the video count of 1, the solo only 2 seconds later at the count of 3 and you left with 4 seconds of seperation between you and that solo on the count of 7. Remind me to leave last if I ever come to your DZ.

As far as
Quote:
Well, were every group to thoroughly check the spot and examine every quadrant of the sky, of course taking the time to get on their bellies so as to check underneath the plane as well, I think you may have a problem getting out an Otter load in one pass
my rebuttal is what's wrong with asking for a second pass? If you are jumping at a DZ that berates you for asking for a second pass to make the situation safer, you should rethink where you are jumping. Too many people are hesitant to ask for a second pass if the spot doesn't look right. You are off AFF and you are your own jumpmaster now.

Finally, with that little amount of seperation you had it was even more important that you not get distracted by the jet or the "shiny Otter" as you called it. There was a good chance of a canopy collision on that jump. Be sure to look around and clear your airspace. Especially if you are on a solo and have nothing else to look at.


dustin19d  (D License)

Oct 17, 2005, 9:53 PM
Post #24 of 78 (4368 views)
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Re: [dixieskydiver] Airline jet fly under during freefall [In reply to] Can't Post

We can disagree all day long and it really doesn't benefit any one else who's on this website.

The message I wanted to get out is NEVER ASSUME

I have lost some dear friends in combat because they acted on assumptions. It applies to everything you do everyday, Never assume!


(This post was edited by dustin19d on Oct 17, 2005, 9:56 PM)


Andrewwhyte  (C 1988)

Oct 17, 2005, 9:58 PM
Post #25 of 78 (4360 views)
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Re: [dixieskydiver] Airline jet fly under during freefall [In reply to] Can't Post

I haven't seen the video (software issues) but if a commercial airliner is below you on jump run I'm guessing that you are in class C airspace. ATC should be giving you traffic if not positive separation if it is. I jumped for years over Pitt Meadows BC which is on the approach to Vancouver International. Seeing jets below is just not unusual. They are usually between 5000 and 6000 ft when they cross the Pitt Meadows VOR. Sometimes it unnerves visiting jumpers, but we have gotten used to putting our faith in the ATC system just like millions of air travelers do every day. If there is an airliner below 18 000' going through "your" airspace they must be being directed there by controllers; it sounds like there is a communication problem between the DZ and either ATC or the FAA.


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