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benefit of a static line?

 

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WhiskeyCartoon  (Student)

Aug 1, 2002, 9:52 PM
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benefit of a static line? Can't Post

does anyone think that static line jumps are beneficial? i mean, they SEEM like they should be. they seem like they get you used to being up that high without the overwhelming rush of a 60 second freefall? it seems they would better prepare one? but i've never done one. what do you guys think?

see, all my "performance anxiety" (ahhh...like i said haha i've only jumped twice) comes from, not so much the height, but from the loud wind and the speed at which we descend that makes it hard to breathe. i was thinking that if i were to do a static line...i would then be able to do a freefall thinking that it was just like a static line, except it would be a little longer until the chute is deployed?

also...what about earplugs? god i sound like a dork. i just get so easily distracted and noise distracts me. but if thats a bad idea, its obviously something i have to get used to (and i can manage that)

any info? thanks guys...


Michele  (B 26874)

Aug 1, 2002, 10:05 PM
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Re: [WhiskeyCartoon] benefit of a static line? [In reply to] Can't Post

I remember thinking "shit, it's loud" for exactly 1.3 seconds during AFF, and haven't thought about it since. You won't get distracted because of the noise. There's far too much going on. besides, ear plugs will make it really hard to hear the radio instructions on how to land...Wink

Ciels and Pinks-
Michele


fred  (A 44905)

Aug 1, 2002, 10:15 PM
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Re: [WhiskeyCartoon] benefit of a static line? [In reply to] Can't Post

First, the best answer is to ask your instructor. Second, I'm not all that experienced, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

Disclaimers out of the way, I started on a static line program and ended up transitioning to AFF. Did the extra SL jumps prepare me better for the altitude? Frankly, I don't think so. What helped me overcome my fear was the instructor who spent his time on my second AFF jump reminding me to take deep breaths and giving me the 'relax' signal before we even left the plane. Once I realized I could relax, things went a lot smoother.

Perhaps you could think of AFF as being like a tandem except with your instructor at your side instead of strapped to you?

There's nothing wrong with doing a SL progression, and if you feel it is a better fit for your learning style and comfort level, and your dz offers it, then you can feel free to switch. I imagine, though, that after 2 more tandems, you're going to be a lot more comfortable with that plane. And, for your AFF jump, you'll have a lot more to think about.

Re: the earplugs. I know a few experienced jumpers who wear them, so they're not out of the question. But there could be concerns about hearing the radio, audible, or your instructor while on the plane. It doesn't hurt to ask, though.


CanuckInUSA  (D 26396)

Aug 1, 2002, 10:16 PM
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Re: [Michele] benefit of a static line? [In reply to] Can't Post

I also found that the jumps I've done on my AFF are a lot quieter than my tandem jump, because during the tandem jump I wasn't wearing anything on my noggin while during the AFF I'm required to wear a helmet (which vastly cuts down the wind noise).


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Aug 1, 2002, 10:31 PM
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Re: [CanuckInUSA] benefit of a static line? [In reply to] Can't Post

The best training program incorporates a variety of training methods to teach a variety of skills.
For example, at Pitt Meadows, most first timers go tandem to experience that huge pyschological rush.

The brighter students are then encouraged to attend the first jump course. They do 2 or 3 IAD (similar to static-line) jumps from 3000' to learn the basics of steering a parachute.

If they want to progress any further, they can chose between traditional or PFF routes.

Most aspiring skydivers chose Progressive Freefall. During the first 5 levels of PFF they master basic freefall survival skills.

They do a few more jumps with coaches to polish solo skills in preparation for their solo and A certificates.

There is a lot of overlap between phases. All of our coaches/instructors hold multiple ratings. For example, there are additional canopy control exercises at every level of PFF and coaches offer advice to improve landing accuracy.

Finally, if a student wants to travel to visit a wind tunnel, we encourage them to do a few "tunnel dives" - to refine body position, turn technique, etc - under the supervision of an AFF instructor.


grega  (D 100020)

Aug 1, 2002, 11:17 PM
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Re: [WhiskeyCartoon] benefit of a static line? [In reply to] Can't Post

i think that you are correct. I started with static line jumping at 1200m (3500 feet). and when i proved to my teacher i can hold the box position, he said hold it for 3sec and then open and when i got that righ, 5sec, and then 10, and then full speed - 20 sec. of course we went higher for 10 and 20 sec jump. And after about 20 jumps (10 of them on Static line) i was able to fall stable at full speed.

It's a longer way to progress to first solo freefall than AFF but the rush i had at first 20 sec dive can't be described. At my 10th jump i couldn't wait to hear the sound of the wind that rushes near your ears, and feel the ground rush !

But when starting with AFF. first of all it's much more expensive and second. Maybe someone who never jumped before (not even tandem) and haven't fly with an airplane, isn't ready to do it all, feel it all, at first jump.

Static line is more like slow and easy progress.
and AFF is exactly what it's called Accelerated!


CanuckInUSA  (D 26396)

Aug 1, 2002, 11:28 PM
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Re: [grega] benefit of a static line? [In reply to] Can't Post

Being a licensed private pilot (with over 400 landings), I felt that I would be able to handle the canopy phase of my jumps (assuming the wing loading is reasonable which it has been in my student training). So I felt that AFF was the way to go for me (besides the fact that my DZ only offers AFF). But I do wonder how some of my peers felt on their first canopy ride down. Not only did they have to deal with the emotions of freefall, but then they had to land themselves without ever having done anything like it before. Shocked


(This post was edited by CanuckInUSA on Aug 1, 2002, 11:29 PM)


drenaline  (C License)

Aug 2, 2002, 2:23 AM
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Re: [WhiskeyCartoon] benefit of a static line? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
also...what about earplugs? god i sound like a dork. i just get so easily distracted and noise distracts me.
Try using a full face helmet, will reduce the noise alot. Another thing could be RELAX, concentrate and have Fun, if the noise is giving you a bother must be cause you are paying to much attention to it and not the relax concentrate fun thing. Take this last one with a grain of salt.

I did S/L and I couldn't wait for the time to freefall, I hated the S/L, something about jumping with that umbilical cord made me nervous even if its the safest thing around.


Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

Aug 2, 2002, 5:06 AM
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Re: [drenaline] benefit of a static line? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
full-face helmet....

We absolutely will not put a full-face helmet on a student. We want to have unrestricted vision, but most importantly, we need them to be able to hear their radios and other people hollering at them.

Chuck


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Aug 2, 2002, 10:00 AM
Post #10 of 41 (2938 views)
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Re: [WhiskeyCartoon] benefit of a static line? [In reply to] Can't Post

>does anyone think that static line jumps are beneficial?

Yes. They do some very important things:

1. Get you used to exiting at 3000 feet, a critical skill if you ever need to bail out of an airplane.

2. Get you the confidence that you climbed out and jumped yourself (depending on aircraft.)

3. Teaches you canopy control first, and canopy control is a lot more important than freefall skills in terms of keeping you alive.


>see, all my "performance anxiety" (ahhh...like i said haha i've only
>jumped twice) comes from, not so much the height, but from the
>loud wind and the speed at which we descend that makes it hard to
> breathe.

The loud wind is something you have to get used to. The hard to breathe part is an illusion, sometimes caused by the mammalian diving reflex (if you're jumping when it's cold out, that is.)

>also...what about earplugs? god i sound like a dork. i just get so
> easily distracted and noise distracts me. but if thats a bad idea, its
> obviously something i have to get used to (and i can manage that)

Not a good idea until you're off student status. You have to be able to hear. After that, many people use earplugs - not to prevent distractions per se, but to save your hearing.


gale  (B 5141)

Aug 2, 2002, 10:18 PM
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Re: [WhiskeyCartoon] benefit of a static line? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi, I'm just a little newbie, but I will tell you about what I've done.

I started out doing IAD's and then moved to PFF on my 8th jump (like AFF, but in Canada). I think the IADs were great for me because it got me used to getting out of the plane by myself. I was a VERY nervous jumper and the more times I do it, the less nervous I get. I did switch to PFF because I kept screwing up my paper pulls and was getting frusterated. The change was tough though, and VERY scarey. Obviously it was good enough for me to continue, but I think if it wasn't for the IADs I would have been too scared to continue.

So, my $0.02. Take it for what you will, I think IADs do have value.

Gale


steve1  (D 23640)

Aug 4, 2002, 6:23 PM
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Re: [WhiskeyCartoon] benefit of a static line? [In reply to] Can't Post

I've two daughters who may pursue skydiving. I'm still trying to pick the best way for them to train. The oldest will make her second tandem probably next week, and the youngest will be making her first. After that we'll decide on either AFF or static line. I have two good friends who own drop zones. One is strictly AFF. The other DZ trains on static line. I trained with static line back in the olden days, and I found it very adequate. The price of this program is considerably less than AFF, if you figure the cost per jump. This is a big consideration since both of my daughters are in college now and I still have to support my own jump habit. I mean it would have been nice if I was a little richer instead of so damn good looking. Steve 1


drenaline  (C License)

Aug 4, 2002, 7:54 PM
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Re: [steve1] benefit of a static line? [In reply to] Can't Post

Since S/L is a slow progression it makes you always want more. You want to do everything right to get your first freefall, you want to do everything right to get more altitude, you want to do everything right to get in formations. Everything goes step by step in a slow way.


steve1  (D 23640)

Aug 4, 2002, 8:48 PM
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Re: [drenaline] benefit of a static line? [In reply to] Can't Post

Drenaline,
Those are good points. I sometimes wonder if this slower progression might be better than going from A to Z with AFF. I trained with static line so I may be biased. But I also know a lot of jumpers who trained by AFF, and they feel it is the only way to go. Steve1


gravitysurf808  (D License)

Aug 4, 2002, 8:58 PM
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Re: [billvon] benefit of a static line? [In reply to] Can't Post

As an S/L I for the last nine years I couldn't have said it better.

Thanks billvon!


MarkM  (C 35089)

Aug 5, 2002, 11:13 AM
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Re: [WhiskeyCartoon] benefit of a static line? [In reply to] Can't Post

SL perks:

Doing your first jump solo is a big confidence booster.
The costs are spread out over a longer period of time.
It's a little easier to book jumps.
There's less to do on each jump.

Cons:

I think AFF instructors go through more training.
Learning freefall skills can be a pain.
You usually have a lot of jumps before seeing enough freefall to get past sensory overload.


WhiskeyCartoon  (Student)

Aug 5, 2002, 7:32 PM
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Re: [MarkM] benefit of a static line? [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow!! thank you guys for all the feedback (and positive, encouraging feedback at that)

i just realized that the place i jump doesn't offer static line jumps anyways...so unless i want to travel elsewhere?

i donno...maybe i will. !!!!


narcimund  (C License)

Aug 10, 2002, 8:54 PM
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Re: [WhiskeyCartoon] benefit of a static line? [In reply to] Can't Post

One benefit of S/L training is simply that it's a lot more jumps. My S/L training was around 25 jumps as opposed to 7 or so for AFF. That's 25 times gearing up and pin checking. 25 times climbing in the plane, riding to alti, spotting, climbing out, doing <whatever the jumps is about>. It's 25 times watching a parachute open, checking it, finding the DZ, maneuvering, landing, gathering the gear. It's 25 debriefs.

AFF has a lot going for it, but 25 is more than 7, no matter how intense the freefall experience is on those 7 jumps.


howardwhite  (C 3896)

Aug 11, 2002, 6:51 PM
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Re: [narcimund] benefit of a static line? [In reply to] Can't Post

Most DZs in my area (New England) have largely abandoned static line because it's inefficient. Mostly they're jumping turbos and you really can't put out SL -- because there are mostly no other Cessna loads. Some have implemented IAD -- Instructor Asstisted Deployment -- but most who have abandoned SL have gone to the hybred tandem -> AFF program. It seems to work...but what do I know?

HW


WhiskeyCartoon  (Student)

Aug 11, 2002, 7:15 PM
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Re: [howardwhite] benefit of a static line? [In reply to] Can't Post

Yea...and i cant even find anywhere around here that does it so oh well. it's not really a concern anymore. just talkng to a few people on this board has already been so helpful and reassuring (although not TOO reassuring, which is a good thing)

i hear wind tunnels help a lot...haha there are so many posts on here about them but it seems like they are all on the west coast? any on the east coast?


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Aug 11, 2002, 7:20 PM
Post #21 of 41 (2654 views)
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Re: [WhiskeyCartoon] benefit of a static line? [In reply to] Can't Post

Actually.. the only tunnel that is open right now that is worth the money is SkyVenture in FL. The West coast tunnels are still in planning or early construction and not running yet.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Aug 13, 2002, 8:47 AM
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Re: [PhreeZone] benefit of a static line? [In reply to] Can't Post

Financially, both S/L and AFF cost about the same by the time a student has earned his A License. S/L has the advantage that the cost can be spread over more months. If an AFF/PFF student can only afford one AFF jump a month, then I encourage them do traditional S/L progression. One jump a month is way too slow a pace to learn anything. At least with S/L they can get in the air often enough to progress.


captainquim  (D License)

Aug 13, 2002, 8:56 AM
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Re: [riggerrob] benefit of a static line? [In reply to] Can't Post

i did two static lines - got bored, saved up the cash to go straight to the top. never regretted it.


masher  (D 3806)

Nov 14, 2002, 5:43 AM
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Re: [captainquim] benefit of a static line? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm on the S/L progression table. Currently I have about 20 jumps, and about 6 to go on the table if I pass everything first go.

I think that its harder to learn freefall skills by SL, as you don't have anyone there to help you. On the up side, (as has already been mentioned) I've landed a canopy 20 times. An AFF person at the same stage in training would have only about 6 to their credit. I've geared up 20 times, go in and out of the plane 20 times.

Some other practicalities, if the cloud base is at 4000, then an AFF student is grounded. An S/L student can go up and get some consolidation jumps in. Also, one thing that one of my instructors mentioned is that when AFF students do their last jump (hop'n'pop) they're usually really scared because they haven't been that close to the ground yet. S/L students love hop'n'pops 'cause they;re what we grew up on.

Cost. Both tables probably end up costing the same, but static lines cost less, so you can do more jumps and stay current, rather than one a month (or so) by AFF.


JumpCrazy  (B 5282)

Nov 14, 2002, 9:38 AM
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Re: [masher] benefit of a static line? [In reply to] Can't Post

That is exactly what I think.

I learned by by pff and found it to be a very good program. In order for the pff to be good however you need a good DZ with highly trained instructors. At my DZ, the instructor basically pioneered pff so he knew what he was doing. The canopy landings can be tough though. I had only 6 radioed landings before I was doing my own. It turned out that I was pretty good at it but I have seen many students who aren't that good and have some pretty hard landings. The freefall experience of pff is the best part. My first solo was a 40 sec freefall! Man did that feel good!


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