Forums: Skydiving: General Skydiving Discussions:
"But if it [sky diving] was safe, nobody would do it"

 

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tdog  (D 28800)

Oct 4, 2005, 5:56 AM
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"But if it [sky diving] was safe, nobody would do it" Can't Post

In a news paper article about the Deland crash, I found the following quote...

Quote:
"There's been a lot of tragedy out here lately," said XXXXXX, outside the Perfect Spot Restaurant and Bar, a hangout for jumpers and pilots. "But if it [sky diving] was safe, nobody would do it."

I for one disagree... I skydive despite the risk because I love to fly... The risk is the biggest turnoff, not turn on, to me... My heart goes pitter-patter before a jump, not because I am saying "yippie, I am risking my life", but because I know I am about ready to do what birds and few other creatures can do - and that is fly...

Sure, maybe my first jump or two or twenty the risk made the adrenaline flow and that might have had some chemical turn on... But it was not the reason I started, in fact it took years before I got over the "risk is not worth it" mentality and tried it...

But, now it is about pushing my limits in 4way, or learning how to sit fly, or seeing my friends play in the sky, or doing a high pull and looking at our beautiful world in a way few others do, or seeing a 30 jump skydiver make a dock or two in some new way and upon landing say "I have never done that before, thank you." I just posted to the bonfire a post about my first wingsuit flight - and again, the joy this brings to my life is so great - I just wish it was risk free, but am able to justify the risk because of my love of flight.

And I show up on cloudy windy days because some of my best friends are the ones I have made in the last year skydiving.

I don't want to bash this guy, Deland has been thru a lot this year and he might have not meant what he said or the newspaper might have misquoted... Lets not argue those points... But, god, I just hate to think that people believe skydivers jump because it is dangerous. And I hate it is in the press for everyone to see...


(This post was edited by tdog on Oct 4, 2005, 5:59 AM)


mr2mk1g  (C 103449)

Oct 4, 2005, 6:04 AM
Post #2 of 34 (1852 views)
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Re: [tdog] "But if it [sky diving] was safe, nobody would do it" [In reply to] Can't Post

I personally agree with you and I think that the majority of those I call my friends would agree with you. I can't speak for everyone though... but I certainly don't think its accurate to say that "nobody" would be jumping if it were completely safe.

...although the risk element does serve as a mechanism to keep a lot of the knobs out of the sport who otherwise end up degrading many other activities out there.


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Oct 4, 2005, 6:07 AM
Post #3 of 34 (1848 views)
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Re: [tdog] "But if it [sky diving] was safe, nobody would do it" [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, we all rather play russian-roulette instead Pirate.


arlo  (D License)

Oct 4, 2005, 6:19 AM
Post #4 of 34 (1826 views)
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Re: [tdog] "But if it [sky diving] was safe, nobody would do it" [In reply to] Can't Post

you're taking one "quote" from a media group that made several mistakes in reporting yesterday BEFORE they got the facts and are using it as a basis for reasoning.

alrighty then.

one suggestion: don't believe everything you read.


tdog  (D 28800)

Oct 4, 2005, 6:34 AM
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Re: [arlo] "But if it [sky diving] was safe, nobody would do it" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
you're taking one "quote" from a media group that made several mistakes in reporting yesterday BEFORE they got the facts and are using it as a basis for reasoning.

alrighty then.

one suggestion: don't believe everything you read.

Re-read what I wroteWink:

Quote:
...and he might have not meant what he said or the newspaper might have misquoted... Lets not argue those points... But, god, I just hate to think that people believe skydivers jump because it is dangerous. And I hate it is in the press for everyone to see...


bmcd308  (D 27472)

Oct 4, 2005, 6:45 AM
Post #6 of 34 (1788 views)
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Re: [tdog] "But if it [sky diving] was safe, nobody would do it" [In reply to] Can't Post

I still would. The risk is the downside, not the upside.


flyangel2

Oct 4, 2005, 7:44 AM
Post #7 of 34 (1730 views)
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Re: [tdog] "But if it [sky diving] was safe, nobody would do it" [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
and he might have not meant what he said or the newspaper might have misquoted... Lets not argue those points... But, god, I just hate to think that people believe skydivers jump because it is dangerous. And I hate it is in the press for everyone to see...

Unfortunately get use to it. I have been mis-quoted lots of times in the media. It adds more dramaUnsure


Squeak  (E 1313)

Oct 4, 2005, 9:14 AM
Post #8 of 34 (1664 views)
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Re: [tdog] "But if it [sky diving] was safe, nobody would do it" [In reply to] Can't Post

it'sd the danger element that atracts us in the 1st place therefore I agree with the quote


(This post was edited by Squeak on Oct 4, 2005, 9:14 AM)


tdog  (D 28800)

Oct 4, 2005, 9:25 AM
Post #9 of 34 (1649 views)
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Re: [Squeak] "But if it [sky diving] was safe, nobody would do it" [In reply to] Can't Post

You really think the danger element attracts us.... For me, it was doing something I had never done before, and experiencing life to it's fullest... Then it was the joy of flight...


goose491  (A 7123)

Oct 4, 2005, 9:48 AM
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Re: [tdog] "But if it [sky diving] was safe, nobody would do it" [In reply to] Can't Post

Let's not kid ourselves here people. The phrase coined was: "Blue Skies, Black Death."

Whereas I agree wholeheartedly with you whom have posted that the risk is the downside and the flying is the upside, they are two sides to the one jump. This sport is about risk versus reward. The butterflies you feel in your stomach before a jump, they ARE there because you mind is reminded that you are about to jump from a perfectly good airplane.

The statement that NOBODY would do it if it was completely safe might just be an exaggeration but it's not completely from left field.

I understand the reluctance to agree even remotely with it... out of fear of being regarded as a ghoul (someone who is obsessedely interested in the darker aspects of the sport) but we all got in for our own reasons. We all know what we get out of it... and I think we all know it would be a whole different scenario if we understood that there was no risk at all.

Nick


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Oct 4, 2005, 10:32 AM
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Re: [tdog] "But if it [sky diving] was safe, nobody would do it" [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree with tdog personally. The risk-gratification part went out in the first few hundred jumps. Now it's a sport I want to get a lot better in and the challenge = the fun. (the risk aspect is just something to respect always). Plus the risk aspect can be a strong motivator for working a well trained and strong learning curve like in swooping - learn it right because it's a great sport but you don't want to learn your mistakes low to the ground.

But we do see a lot of risk-addicts out there doing it for ego reasons or at least the rush. I wouldn't begrudge their motivations either, but I do make sure I know who they are and where they are at all times. The key word in adrenaline-junkie is 'junkie'. Darwin will sort those guys over time. The ego types don't stay too long (skydivers don't give much respect to bluster), the rush addicts can be some of our top notch participants too - so that's good for the sport in some ways.

I won't generalize our motivations to jump. There can be several reasons.


Darius11  (C License)

Oct 4, 2005, 11:13 AM
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Re: [tdog] "But if it [sky diving] was safe, nobody would do it" [In reply to] Can't Post

Here is a poll that might intrest you

http://www.dropzone.com/...as%20not%20;#1453047


MarkM  (C 35089)

Oct 4, 2005, 12:08 PM
Post #13 of 34 (1519 views)
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Re: [tdog] "But if it [sky diving] was safe, nobody would do it" [In reply to] Can't Post

You don't get dopamine playing golf. I'm sure the sport would still be popular, but there'd be different people in it.

If you love to fly but don't want the risk, take up soaring in hang gliding. The trip to altitude costs 15-35, and lasts a whole lot longer. The gear is cheaper too.


tdog  (D 28800)

Oct 4, 2005, 12:25 PM
Post #14 of 34 (1505 views)
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Re: [MarkM] "But if it [sky diving] was safe, nobody would do it" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
You don't get dopamine playing golf. I'm sure the sport would still be popular, but there'd be different people in it.

If you love to fly but don't want the risk, take up soaring in hang gliding. The trip to altitude costs 15-35, and lasts a whole lot longer. The gear is cheaper too.


Been there, done that. I flew a paraglider and the "ride to altitude" cost me 500 calories each flight, or perhaps a few quarts of gas for the car ride if we had a drive up launch.

I know the hang gliding/paragliding statistics, and I would not say it is safer, perhaps the same, but not safer...


Salsa_John  (B 9913421)

Oct 4, 2005, 1:46 PM
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Re: [tdog] "But if it [sky diving] was safe, nobody would do it" [In reply to] Can't Post

I would definately disagree with Bxxxx Hxxx. Everything I have been taught at Skydive Deland, learned from other jumpers, read, and watched has been geared toward safety. Bill Booth, Bill Coe, and many others have gone to great lengths to make this a safer sport. If automobile and motor cycle drivers paid as much attention to their equipment and being safe think how many lives could be saved.

For me skydiving was a long time dream. A dream for which I had to overcome my fear of heights and learn to relax. I have the great pleasure of knowing that I have accomplished something really wonderful.

Besides it is just plain fun.


packerboy  (C 34282)

Oct 4, 2005, 2:12 PM
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Re: [MarkM] "But if it [sky diving] was safe, nobody would do it" [In reply to] Can't Post

I bet you get dopamine lining up a 25 ft eagle putt on the 18th green on Sunday afternoon at the U.S. Open when your 1 shot from the top of the leaderboard and Tiger Woods is standing in the press tent watching you with a worried look on his face.

But how many times will that happen in golf? 5,10,20 times a weekend? Tongue


kelpdiver  (B 7)

Oct 4, 2005, 2:41 PM
Post #17 of 34 (1435 views)
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Re: [tdog] "But if it [sky diving] was safe, nobody would do it" [In reply to] Can't Post

With most of the adventure sports, the risk is a significant part of the experience. Why deny it? You're putting yourself in a precarious sitution, forcing the body to be on edge to successfully resolve the scenario.

Has anyone gone parasailing (where a boat tows you along being carried by a parachute/harness)? Has anyone done it twice? You're flying, you have the view, and it's the most boring way to throw away money I've ever experienced.

How successful would the sport be if it were completely safe? Bowling alleys still exist, but they're not exactly thriving businesses. They're shrinking away where I live.


Nullified  (C 32259)

Oct 4, 2005, 3:08 PM
Post #18 of 34 (1421 views)
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Re: [Squeak] "But if it [sky diving] was safe, nobody would do it" [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
it'sd the danger element that atracts us in the 1st place therefore I agree with the quote
I'm sure that you didn't mean to speak for us all.
The danger element was probably the biggest reason that I put off doing it for as long as I did.
In fact, the danger element is the reason why I don't ride motorcycles or BASE jump. And before anyone begins throwing statistics at me, understand that to me, these other activities aren't worth the risk whatever the statistics may be. Just a personal thing.

I skydive because I enjoy the experience of skydiving.

Fly safe,
Mike


kallend  (D 23151)

Oct 4, 2005, 3:11 PM
Post #19 of 34 (1416 views)
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Re: [tdog] "But if it [sky diving] was safe, nobody would do it" [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Having lost three friends and five acquaintances in skydiving accidents just since 2001, I sure as hell would prefer it if it were perfectly safe.


Andy9o8  (D License)

Oct 4, 2005, 3:14 PM
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Re: [kelpdiver] "But if it [sky diving] was safe, nobody would do it" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Has anyone gone parasailing .... it's the most boring way to throw away money I've ever experienced.

You've obviously never been forced to go along to a Barry Manilow concert.Unsure


tdog  (D 28800)

Oct 4, 2005, 3:58 PM
Post #21 of 34 (1387 views)
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Re: [kelpdiver] "But if it [sky diving] was safe, nobody would do it" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
With most of the adventure sports, the risk is a significant part of the experience. Why deny it? You're putting yourself in a precarious sitution, forcing the body to be on edge to successfully resolve the scenario.

Has anyone gone parasailing (where a boat tows you along being carried by a parachute/harness)? Has anyone done it twice? You're flying, you have the view, and it's the most boring way to throw away money I've ever experienced.

How successful would the sport be if it were completely safe? Bowling alleys still exist, but they're not exactly thriving businesses. They're shrinking away where I live.

I disagree... Ok, skydiving is intense and requires a lot of skill and quick thinking, and that is rewarding and challenging, but the danger and death, especially from outside forces (collisions, air craft issues) are not appealing to me at all... If I could pay money to remove all the "did everything right and still died" risk, I would... The rest is like flying a plane or driving a car, if you run it into a brick wall at high speed, you are going to die. That risk is much more manageable by simply learning... People all the time ask me, "but in skydiving if you don't deploy, you are going to die." I say, "if I drive my car fast down the road and don't use the brake at the stoplight, I will die just as easy... That risk is acceptable... It is the random acts of bad luck or collisions with others or plane mechanical problems that really suck."

Flying your body thru space is awesome... I love doing it... I love doing it so much I am willing to risk the chance I do everything right and still die... Not the other way around.

And for the record, I have been parasailing twice. Once in Jamaica and once in the Keys... Both times were awesome. I got to see thousands of jelly fish from above and got to fly over great views in Jamaica... Like a helicopter tour but cheaper and quieter... It would not have been as much fun in lake in Nebraska, but in Jamaica it was AWESOME... Flying next to the hills, over the white sand beach, seeing water splash as the waves came in... That was fun, and I did not need extra risk to make it even more fun.


The original quote was "But if it [sky diving] was safe, nobody would do it"... I think there is some rewards with the risk, I kid myself not... But, it is not the reason I do it, especially now that I have learned how much fun it is to fly...

Go tell some general aviation pilot "no one would fly hobby flights in Cessna's if there was no risk." He would laugh, because he probably hates the risk as much as I, but loves to fly...


(This post was edited by tdog on Oct 4, 2005, 4:21 PM)


kelpdiver  (B 7)

Oct 4, 2005, 4:18 PM
Post #22 of 34 (1374 views)
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Re: [tdog] "But if it [sky diving] was safe, nobody would do it" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Go tell some general aviation pilot "no one would fly hobby flights in Cessna's if there was no risk." He would laugh, because he probably hates the risk as much as I, but loves to fly...

So given the option of a high end flight simulator, how long would they be happy with it? No risk there. I think it's hard to divorce from the job of flying that we humans aren't supposed to be there. Any sport that involves speed or height has to include danger. And many of us seek out those attributes. Your words in this last posting on jumping - you're not quite making the argument that risk free skydiving would be the same, are you.

with Brian Germain about to release his book on fear, I wonder what his take would be on this question.


tdog  (D 28800)

Oct 4, 2005, 4:27 PM
Post #23 of 34 (1366 views)
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Re: [kelpdiver] "But if it [sky diving] was safe, nobody would do it" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Go tell some general aviation pilot "no one would fly hobby flights in Cessna's if there was no risk." He would laugh, because he probably hates the risk as much as I, but loves to fly...

So given the option of a high end flight simulator, how long would they be happy with it? No risk there. I think it's hard to divorce from the job of flying that we humans aren't supposed to be there. Any sport that involves speed or height has to include danger. And many of us seek out those attributes.

I think if general aviation pilots could make flying 10X safer, they would. If skydivers could make skydivng 10X safer they would.

I think general aviation pilots like flying the real thing because it is the real thing... Seeing the country side, going new places, meeting new people, learning new things...

If you are into skydiving because you enjoy or get rewards from the danger, I am not going to knock you or think your goals are wrong... But they are not my goals, and therefore I am simply arguing that if skydiving was "safe" (as maybe driving a car or flying a plane), I would still do it... Nothing, including waking up in the morning and making a cup of coffee is without risk, so lets not kid ourselves there.

You are right, it would not be the same sport and some of the challenges would be gone, but I still would do it...


(This post was edited by tdog on Oct 4, 2005, 4:29 PM)


happythoughts  (D License)

Oct 4, 2005, 4:28 PM
Post #24 of 34 (1364 views)
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Re: [tdog] "But if it [sky diving] was safe, nobody would do it" [In reply to] Can't Post

There are non-skydivers who are regular flyers at the wind tunnel in Orlando. Since they have no fear of death, it must be something else that keeps them returning.


tdog  (D 28800)

Oct 4, 2005, 4:31 PM
Post #25 of 34 (1360 views)
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Re: [happythoughts] "But if it [sky diving] was safe, nobody would do it" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
There are non-skydivers who are regular flyers at the wind tunnel in Orlando. Since they have no fear of death, it must be something else that keeps them returning.

Very good point... My point exactly. I wish I said it... Tongue

I enjoy the tunnel very much too... I don't think I would give up the skydiving part to just fly the tunnel, but it proves flying your body is fun regardless of the risk level.


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