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so i had the spins..... ?

 


alanab

Oct 3, 2005, 1:10 PM
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so i had the spins..... ? Can't Post

i have been wanting to downsize for sometime now. i am currently jumping a sabre 2 150 (i weigh 140 without gear right now, but that's going down as we speak!). i would like to jump a 135 sized canopy.
so yesterday i was out at the dz jumping and my friends let me jump their samurai 136 (i put 2 jumps on it and loved it) and also a stiletto 135. i put 3 jumps on the stiletto. but... on the 2nd jump, while very aware to my body position on opening, i opened up and was instantly spiraling to the left. i had a square canopy above my head, no line twists, both brakes still stowed... yet spinning like crazy. so, i released the breakes and made a slight toggle turn to the right to counter the turns and then i was fine and flying straight... but i was low and landed out without incident. the rest of the jumps put on the stiletto that day were fine by me and the owner.
so the point of my post is... what the hell could have been causing the spirals? no line twists, no brake fires, no line over. just crazy fast spiraling!
thanks in advance if you can helpBlush


marks  (D 22296)

Oct 3, 2005, 1:15 PM
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Re: [alanab] so i had the spins..... ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
so the point of my post is... what the hell could have been causing the spirals?

because it is elliptical. one side inflated before the other. could be caused by bad body position. but it can also just happen. esspecially on the stilletto. could also be out of trim..

welcome to high performance canopies, they breed high performance openings and malfunctions too..

just wait till you get line twist on that sucker!Wink


alanab

Oct 3, 2005, 1:33 PM
Post #3 of 20 (1503 views)
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Re: [marks] so i had the spins..... ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
one side inflated before the other.
well, as i remember (since i was slightly scared of the stiletto openings), i watched the deployments carefully and it "seemed" to be a normal opening, but instead of flying straight i was spinning!

Quote:
could be caused by bad body position.
not so, i was 100% aware that i was in good body position to pull.

Quote:
could also be out of trim
possible, but wouldnt it cause left hand turns on the openings on all jumps then?


ntacfreefly

Oct 3, 2005, 1:35 PM
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Re: [alanab] so i had the spins..... ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
not so, i was 100% aware that i was in good body position to pull.

Pulling is part of it. You have to remain in a good position AND steer where appropriate WHILE the deployment is happening. Harness shifting during or even after deployment can cause the spin.

Next time, use the rears to stop the spin.

Blues.


dragon2  (D 101989)

Oct 3, 2005, 1:46 PM
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Re: [alanab] so i had the spins..... ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Watching deployments is for some reason a good way to get off-heading (or worse) deployments...


Kris  (D 26033)

Oct 3, 2005, 2:38 PM
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Re: [dragon2] so i had the spins..... ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Watching deployments is for some reason a good way to get off-heading (or worse) deployments...

This is a very good point, Alana. Keep your shoulders square and eyes on the horizon.

If you dip a shoulder or drop a hip during deployment, it's going to get your attention.

Also, as a previous poster pointed out, don't use your toggles to right the canopy, after it's open immediately get on the rear risers. You'll be able to correct a lot more quickly, which is vital if you have an off-heading opening in traffic.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Oct 3, 2005, 3:05 PM
Post #7 of 20 (1424 views)
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Re: [alanab] so i had the spins..... ? [In reply to] Can't Post

>what the hell could have been causing the spirals?

1) You weren't flying the canopy through the opening

2) It just decided to spin up. Stilettos do that.


vdschoor  (D 27300)

Oct 3, 2005, 4:17 PM
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Re: [alanab] so i had the spins..... ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Banana!!

I think you need a Sabre2 135 Tongue that way we can jump the same canopy again. ha ha.. just kidding here..

let me know if you want to try mine, you're more than welcome to in Atlanta, we can just switch out canopies..

The stiletto is very sensitive to body position, I had the same experience on that canopy the first couple of jumps. I loved the canopy though after I figured out what I was doing wrong. I stuck to the Sabre2 in the end though. The Sabre2 is more forgiving when it comes to body position on opening.

Have fun trying all the different canopies out there!


(This post was edited by vdschoor on Oct 3, 2005, 4:18 PM)


DrewEckhardt  (D 28461)

Oct 4, 2005, 10:56 AM
Post #9 of 20 (1228 views)
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Re: [alanab] so i had the spins..... ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
so the point of my post is... what the hell could have been causing the spirals? no line twists, no brake fires, no line over. just crazy fast spiraling!
thanks in advance if you can helpBlush

With the brakes stowed many ellipticals will stay in a turn until you apply control input. Harness or riser input is a better way to deal with it than toggle. since that will leave the canopy in braked flight to give you more time to deal with traffic, stowing your slider, loosening your chest strap, etc. This seems to be more likely with ellipticals that are more sensitive to control input like the Stiletto; but is far from unique to that canopy. I think the Stiletto just gets a reputation because it was the first common elliptical.

All ellipticals ocassionally try to open into a hard turn which will turn into a spiral. Flying through the opening minimizes this.

If you made enough jumps on a Samurai you'd find that it does this too.


alanab

Oct 4, 2005, 1:31 PM
Post #10 of 20 (1194 views)
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Re: [DrewEckhardt] so i had the spins..... ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
so the point of my post is... what the hell could have been causing the spirals? no line twists, no brake fires, no line over. just crazy fast spiraling!
thanks in advance if you can helpBlush

With the brakes stowed many ellipticals will stay in a turn until you apply control input. Harness or riser input is a better way to deal with it than toggle. since that will leave the canopy in braked flight to give you more time to deal with traffic, stowing your slider, loosening your chest strap, etc. This seems to be more likely with ellipticals that are more sensitive to control input like the Stiletto; but is far from unique to that canopy. I think the Stiletto just gets a reputation because it was the first common elliptical.

All ellipticals ocassionally try to open into a hard turn which will turn into a spiral. Flying through the opening minimizes this.

If you made enough jumps on a Samurai you'd find that it does this too.

THANK YOU!Smile


anyone have suggestions as to what canopy i should get next? as i said before, im 140... in the midst of losing and additional 10. currently flying a 150 sabre 2... my jump #'s are current in my profile.
i would like an elliptical canopy... i want to go faster and ultimately i want to start doing front riser approaches.
my choices so far are: crossfire2 139, stiletto 135, samurai 136 (not sure if i want airlocks), sabre 2 135 (not fully elliptical).... katana maybe? any other suggestions/idea?


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Oct 4, 2005, 1:40 PM
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Re: [alanab] so i had the spins..... ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Why do you wanna have an elliptical? If you go there, you have to pay its price. You may still go faster under a Sabre2/Saffire2/Pilot.


alanab

Oct 4, 2005, 1:46 PM
Post #12 of 20 (1184 views)
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Re: [phoenixlpr] so i had the spins..... ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If you go there, you have to pay its price.

what do you mean by this??


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Oct 4, 2005, 1:57 PM
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Re: [alanab] so i had the spins..... ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Spins you have described?

I have exceeded WL1.4 on a Pilot. I took some time to realize that the reason of my turns is me or my position in the harness.


(This post was edited by phoenixlpr on Oct 4, 2005, 2:01 PM)


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Oct 4, 2005, 2:11 PM
Post #14 of 20 (1173 views)
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Re: [alanab] so i had the spins..... ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Currently the Katana only is as large as 120 and you do not want that.

Another canopy to check out is the Nitro and Blade if you are wanting to go higher performance then the Sabre2. If you are wanting to do front riser stuff start out on your Sabre2 now, look me up at the DZ if you want to talk about some things to do.


Brains  (D License)

Oct 4, 2005, 3:20 PM
Post #15 of 20 (1159 views)
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Re: [Kris] so i had the spins..... ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Also, as a previous poster pointed out, don't use your toggles to right the canopy, after it's open immediately get on the rear risers. You'll be able to correct a lot more quickly, which is vital if you have an off-heading opening in traffic.

I agree with Kris and the others that say to use rears instead of toggles, however, fighting a canopy that wants to turn/spin on opening can make it worse. Sometimes if you "follow" (with your body)the canopy around it will settle down. My (former) crossfire would do this every once in a while, i grabbed the rears once when it decided to go hard to the left. It pulled my left arm around and behind me dislocating my shoulder (minor)ShockedLaugh

Like Shimmel said, "Ain't elipticals fun?"Crazy


vdschoor  (D 27300)

Oct 4, 2005, 5:28 PM
Post #16 of 20 (1143 views)
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Re: [alanab] so i had the spins..... ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
anyone have suggestions as to what canopy i should get next? as i said before, im 140... in the midst of losing and additional 10. currently flying a 150 sabre 2... my jump #'s are current in my profile.
i would like an elliptical canopy... i want to go faster and ultimately i want to start doing front riser approaches.
my choices so far are: crossfire2 139, stiletto 135, samurai 136 (not sure if i want airlocks), sabre 2 135 (not fully elliptical).... katana maybe? any other suggestions/idea?

Alana.. I would seriously consider another Sabre2 for many reasons..

It is not eliptical, but it will go faster cause you'll be loading it a bit higher than what you are doing now.
Between the Sabre2 and the Stiletto, the Sabre2 will dive longer (longer recovery arc) when you go on the front risers.

I was thinking of going for the Stiletto as well back in December, and I am really happy I stuck to what I knew, the Sabre2 (now a 135)
The Sabre2 will allow you to learn all the things you want to learn, and with front riser approaches it will take you at least as far as a Stiletto will if flown right.

Call PD and ask them for a 135 demo Tongue

Of course.. keep trying other canopies as well.. I'm just stating my opinion.
I've never flown a Samurai, but I've flown the Nitron 135, Vision 132, Stiletto 135 and I liked all of them.. really liked them..
But every time I did come back to my Sabre2 135..


Squeak  (E 1313)

Oct 5, 2005, 5:32 AM
Post #17 of 20 (1101 views)
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Re: [alanab] so i had the spins..... ? [In reply to] Can't Post

There is also a possiblility that the legs straps may have been uneven on that jumps.
If you have more weight being suspended from one leg strap it will cause the canopy to turn
just my 0.02c


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Oct 5, 2005, 5:47 AM
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Re: [Squeak] so i had the spins..... ? [In reply to] Can't Post

:). Cool. If I have them even, I have a built in turn :).


Amazon  (D License)

Oct 5, 2005, 6:32 PM
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Re: [alanab] so i had the spins..... ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Alana Dear,,,


Go for the Samurai.. the airlocks ROCK( as in rock solid canopy... I love mineSmile

The red ones are really kewlAngelic


beezyshaw  (A 3393)

Oct 8, 2005, 12:57 PM
Post #20 of 20 (937 views)
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Re: [alanab] so i had the spins..... ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
my choices so far are: crossfire2 139, stiletto 135, samurai 136 (not sure if i want airlocks), sabre 2 135 (not fully elliptical).... katana maybe? any other suggestions/idea?

(Alana, this is your conscience speaking, listen to Phree, Eric knows what you should do, listen to him, listen to him)

Damnit Alana, I thought we were friends, and you didn't even mention Nitro! Are you going to RoamingDZ Mtn. or Atlanta Halloween? I really think a 135 Nitro is saying "come to me, come to me"



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