Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Canopy Relative Work:
25 way attempt from one King Air

 

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BillyVance  (D 18895)

Sep 19, 2005, 9:33 PM
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25 way attempt from one King Air Can't Post

Somebody who was there should really be posting this but I don't seem to have that much patience...

You guys think this is a joke? How do you get a 25 way crw jump out of one King Air? It happened at the Toadsuckers Reunion boogie at Titusville. I didn't believe it at first without knowing the details.

But knowing these crwdogs, if there's a way, they'll find it and make it work. Sly

Took the first load up to 19,000 feet (bbbrrrrr!). Dove back down to pick up the remaining jumpers and dumped them out at about 6000 feet or so to catch up with the building formation. It eventually built to 23...

Man, the video's got to be bitchin'! Can't wait to see it... Wish I'd been there... Unsure


klingeme  (D 24728)

Sep 20, 2005, 5:18 AM
Post #2 of 35 (3404 views)
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Re: [BillyVance] 25 way attempt from one King Air [In reply to] Can't Post

I was the vidiot front floating and filming all the exits in the first plane (should have told the pilot I'd be there) and have the video of the whole thing. I'll let the dogs explain the jump, but I will verify that it DID HAPPEN.

Mark Klingelhoefer


YahooLV  (D License)

Sep 21, 2005, 12:00 PM
Post #3 of 35 (3312 views)
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Re: [klingeme] 25 way attempt from one King Air [In reply to] Can't Post

A friend of mine was on the second pass...she said it was FANTASTIC!!!!!!!!

(She was 24th)


leapdog  (D 28504)

Sep 21, 2005, 6:23 PM
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Re: [YahooLV] 25 way attempt from one King Air [In reply to] Can't Post

I was on the second ride up to meet the formation.
The first load went to about 18,000, then with the vidiot on front float, the plane took a 45 degree banking turn just as he exited. So it could decend quickly. I don't think the pilot knew he was still floating the exit. It was on the video!

It took a few minutes but the pilot hook turned the king air in for a landing (into the wind) and stopped on the taxi way beside the runway where we were waiting to load. We had a helper with the stairs and were lined up in proper order and loaded like a nascar pit crew. I heard several dogs yelling go go go.

The pilot drove the plane around the rest of the way and to take off like it was a borrowed fararri. I'm not sure if he even stop to look for air traffic. We went to 7,000 and exited on the built and waiting base. Starburst at about 2,500 the 24th had just docked and there was a hand on her canopy and a split second later the formation broke.

It was a very bitchin jump! The energy in the plane on the ride up was intense. I didn't want to be over amped while docking the formation so while riding up I grabbed Harry's harnes and started shaking him and yelling YA,YA,YA to get rid of the energy. Everyone else was quiet but you could feel the amped tension.

...and that was only one of the great things that happend over the toadsuckers reunion weekend.


(This post was edited by leapdog on Sep 21, 2005, 6:35 PM)


YahooLV  (D License)

Sep 21, 2005, 7:17 PM
Post #5 of 35 (3278 views)
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Re: [leapdog] 25 way attempt from one King Air [In reply to] Can't Post

I wanna be a sucker, too!

I just have to lose the camera for a while...or do..I?

Hmmmmmmmmmm


leapdog  (D 28504)

Sep 21, 2005, 7:31 PM
Post #6 of 35 (3276 views)
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Re: [YahooLV] 25 way attempt from one King Air [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I wanna be a sucker, too!

I just have to lose the camera for a while...or do..I?

Hmmmmmmmmmm

Only part time...


krkeenan  (C 7860)

Sep 22, 2005, 11:25 AM
Post #7 of 35 (3233 views)
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Re: [YahooLV] 25 way attempt from one King Air [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I wanna be a sucker, too!

Suck This ! Shocked

Oh, Sorry.Wink I'm still winding down from last weekend.
I was on the first half of the load. That airplane climbs like a bastard. It takes a good pilot to get the most performance from an aircraft, and Snore, the SDSC pilot is one of the best I've seen.

A few days before the event, Master CRWDog Dave Hillebrandt thought this up. We all thought it could be done - but then there's a lot of weird shit that we have come up with over the years - we'll try just about anything. Then, Dave talked Snore into it. But that wasn't too hard either, since apparently Snore will try just about anything, too.Smile

I think we went to about 18.5k. I was looking for signs of hypoxia, any goofy behavior, but everyone was so damn goofy all weekend, it was hard to tell.Crazy As we exited, the first thing I remember thinking was, "Wow, you can sure see a long way from up here". We started in on building the formation, going pretty fast as we usually do, then we settled in for a nice, long flight. The visibility was great, and we could see the Kingair diving for the ground like a meteor. We were flying south right over the airport as he landed. I watched as he came around on the taxiway and stopped to load the next group. I couldn't see the people, but I realized they were loading on the taxiway, and that was going to make the turnaround nice and quick. The Kingair went blasting down the runway, and we all cheered when it lifted off. Smile I remembered one of the astronauts telling about watching a shuttle launch from the Space Station, knowing that the ship was coming up to meet them in a couple days. I thought, "Jeez, we've been in this formation forever". By this time, we had pretty much run out of funny things to say to each other, and Mark, the video guy, had made so many passes we didn't even notice him anymore.Tongue Usually, we build formations and break them or sequence to another, or something. I don't think anyone had ever been in a formation this long without doing something other than watching their altimeter unwind. I knew that the plane would be coming up on us from the right rear. I kept looking, and sure enough, there it came. It was an awesome sight to see them so close - I could see the lineup through the windows as people were coming out the door. The first couple of folks were so close, we could hear their parachutes open.Shocked Then, the swarming started.

We had hoped to have the second wave exiting around 8k - but that was an optimistic guess. They ended up getting out around 6k. We knew they were under the gun, and had to hurry, and they sure did. The second group were docking like clockwork. We had planned a 4k ft. breakoff, but Mike Lewis held off as long as possible so everyone could get in.Unimpressed Number 24 was almost on grips and 25 close-by when the Starburst call came.

It was a really cool experience. If we do this again, we have thought of a few things to optimize our time and try to squeeze a little more working time out of the operation. But, all in all, it was a hell of a first run at it. thanks to Dave for thinking of the scheme, Snore for his awesome flying, Mike Lewis for formation piloting, and everyone else for being the top-notch CRWDogs we needed to pull this off.Wink

Kevin K.


Premier faulknerwn  (D 17441)
Moderator
Sep 22, 2005, 12:56 PM
Post #8 of 35 (3222 views)
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Re: [krkeenan] 25 way attempt from one King Air [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
We had planned a 4k ft. breakoff, but Mike Lewis held off as long as possible so everyone could get in.Unimpressed Number 24 was almost on grips and 25 close-by when the Starburst call came.
of a first run at it.

You guys let Mike call the breakoff? That explains it! I mean if he'll fly a 70-way down to below 3.5, then a mere 25 way should be landable!


krkeenan  (C 7860)

Sep 22, 2005, 1:09 PM
Post #9 of 35 (3219 views)
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Re: [faulknerwn] 25 way attempt from one King Air [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
You guys let Mike call the breakoff? That explains it! I mean if he'll fly a 70-way down to below 3.5, then a mere 25 way should be landable!

Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking at the time. The last two were newbies. The one who was almost docked was going for it, while the other had the good judgement to boogie out of there at the proper altitude.


BillyVance  (D 18895)

Sep 22, 2005, 1:10 PM
Post #10 of 35 (3219 views)
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Re: [krkeenan] 25 way attempt from one King Air [In reply to] Can't Post

I bet that Mike Mullins would get his King Air up and down faster than anybody else, and more than likely get the 2nd load out by 8000 feet, maybe a bit higher. Besides, his King Air is fitted with an oxygen system for up to 10 jumpers. A few could share a hose on the ride up. He normally gets a full load to 15,000 feet in 7 minutes, to 19,000 feet in 10 minutes is not out of the question. How long did it take the King Air to climb on that 25 way at Titusville?

Who knows? I don't think Mike Mullins would mind giving this a try at his DZ, if the jumpers show up. Wanna try it next year? Wink


leapdog  (D 28504)

Sep 22, 2005, 2:55 PM
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Re: [BillyVance] 25 way attempt from one King Air [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm willing to bet that both those king airs are the same. it will be up to the pilot. I think that Snorre will give mike a run for it.

The advantage of on board air is nice though.

Why don't we put both planes in the air and have both race down and pick up more jumpers.

Fly a true formation load but with four drops and two trips.


mrobiette  (D License)

Sep 22, 2005, 3:50 PM
Post #12 of 35 (3198 views)
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Re: [faulknerwn] 25 way attempt from one King Air [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
You guys let Mike call the breakoff? That explains it! I mean if he'll fly a 70-way down to below 3.5, then a mere 25 way should be landable!

He he, where's Plastic? He's got a great story about Mike Lewis coming over the the UK to coach their team, and ending up docking eighth at some unfeasibly low altitude. I believe his comment was something along the lines of "I don't mind taking it low, but I'd rather not have to lift my legs to miss the hanger!"

I wasn't there, so I don't know how much exaggeration (if any) there was in that...

Martin


BillyVance  (D 18895)

Sep 22, 2005, 8:47 PM
Post #13 of 35 (3181 views)
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Re: [leapdog] 25 way attempt from one King Air [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'm willing to bet that both those king airs are the same. it will be up to the pilot. I think that Snorre will give mike a run for it.

The advantage of on board air is nice though.

Why don't we put both planes in the air and have both race down and pick up more jumpers.

Fly a true formation load but with four drops and two trips.

To build a 49 way? Why not? Wink Let's stagger the loads, first plane goes up to 19,000 ft, second plane up to 16,000 feet, first plane second load up to 8000 feet, and the last load up to 6000 feet or thereabouts.... It could work...

What the hell, just another thing that hasn't been done before! Wink


(This post was edited by BillyVance on Sep 22, 2005, 8:47 PM)


plastic  (D 10050)

Sep 23, 2005, 1:44 AM
Post #14 of 35 (3170 views)
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Re: [mrobiette] 25 way attempt from one King Air [In reply to] Can't Post

It was about 900ft when mike docked 8th but we only got out at 3000 to do a kite but of course pin and base had to make a complete hash of things and take over 1000ft to get together with everybody else sat behind them waiting and looking at the ground getting closer.

I also remember in the early days of sequential training when mike was coaching us at z-hills showing us how to do gaff to boomerang at 2000ft, in them days we were using radios, i heard alan fielding say to mike don't you think we are getting a bit low for this (as on the previous attempt at this block we had a cutaway) mikes reply was "dont worry alan god will look after us" to which alan replied "he might look after you but I am a sinner"

That was before mike taught us the "Diamond Death Spiral" but that is another story.

plastic


bodypilot90  (D 24249)

Sep 23, 2005, 10:59 AM
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Re: [plastic] 25 way attempt from one King Air [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
That was before mike taught us the "Diamond Death Spiral" but that is another story.

do tell, please Wink


plastic  (D 10050)

Sep 23, 2005, 11:45 AM
Post #16 of 35 (3126 views)
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Re: [bodypilot90] 25 way attempt from one King Air [In reply to] Can't Post

Well ok, although it may not really be as dramatic as it sounds, better to see it especially from above.

Remember that at the time we were supposed to be sequential training but mike used to like to throw in something different now and again.

It goes like this, take a normal 4-way diamond, then as opposed to the normal competition grip for the wings, with the inside leg around outside a line you actually move in front of the end cell with the outside leg around the outside a line and the inside leg around the next a line in, this makes the formation a lot more solid (it used to be a legal grip in competition a few years ago).

Then to start the spiral, you decide which way you are going to go and the wing who will be on the inside of the turn puts on outside riser and the pilot increases the brake level on the side easing in to the turn, then you just let the speed build up until, eventually somebody will scream, and you really can build up some speed.

Now this is not overly difficult to do, the trick is what to do next. I have heard of people who do a count and starburst it in the turn, which looks impressive. We used to prefer to stop it, which is done by the pilot calling that he is stopping the spiral, the wing on the outside puts on outside riser, as the pilot eases out of the turn the inside wing can start letting up on the riser until the turn has almost stopped and then the outside wing can also ease up on the riser, the trick as with starting the turn is to do it slowly and gently letting the momentum of the turn bleed itself off.

So of course at our nationals the following year, we also did 8-way speed with a rotation team, the last round was the wedge, we completed and held for the 5 seconds for the score, we then let go of the bottom locks and row 3 wings, i looked down and we were directly over the dz control (where of course the chief judge was) then i heard the pilot shout down "double grips" and i though i know whats coming now, so we threw in the "diamond death spiral" right over the chief judges head with the other 4 team members and the videoman all spiralling after us not having a clue what we were up to.

Suffice to say the chief judge nearly had kittens and the quote we heard later was "what the f*cking hell are those f*cking idiots doing. don't they know this is supposed to be serious f*cking competition"

He was contemplating throwing us out of the competition, but we then pointed out that that was the last round and that the competition was over anyway.

That was back in 1998/99 things have moved on since and many more wild things have been done but that is one of the many reasons why i have such fond memories of our time being coached by mike lewis.

Regards
Plastic


(This post was edited by plastic on Sep 23, 2005, 11:47 AM)


kleggo  (D 8292)

Sep 23, 2005, 11:59 AM
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Re: [plastic] 25 way attempt from one King Air [In reply to] Can't Post

nice stories plastic.
thanks 4 sharing

mike does love the DDS!
we did a few several years ago when we were doing 16 ways at sebastian for Normans movie.
i'm sure they weren't as spinning as fast as a 4 way, but they did have their charm Cool.

be safe

kleggo


plastic  (D 10050)

Sep 23, 2005, 12:47 PM
Post #18 of 35 (3110 views)
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Re: [kleggo] 25 way attempt from one King Air [In reply to] Can't Post

I should have known mike would not have stopped with 4-way dds.

I still have the footage, just dont have my own web site to upload it to.

Plastic


bob.dino  (E 2185)

Sep 25, 2005, 7:10 PM
Post #19 of 35 (3058 views)
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Re: [plastic] 25 way attempt from one King Air [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I still have the footage, just dont have my own web site to upload it to.

...and that's why pilotdave created Skydiving Movies for us all...


Premier faulknerwn  (D 17441)
Moderator
Sep 25, 2005, 9:03 PM
Post #20 of 35 (3051 views)
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Re: [plastic] 25 way attempt from one King Air [In reply to] Can't Post

If its good footage I'll put it on my website as well!!!

I'm collecting video footage as well to put together a nice wrap DVD so if ya got any of that send it on!

W


CRWCheryl  (D License)

Sep 26, 2005, 8:41 AM
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Re: [plastic] 25 way attempt from one King Air [In reply to] Can't Post

Actually, the diamond death spiral has come in quite useful for taking care of problems. Think about it... You have someone (who shall remain nameless and blonde but not Wendy) docking a row 5 wing and wrapping it. If the pilot allows the formation to turn to the heavy side, you keep it from wrapping more. It's flying and scary, but those on the outside wing understand they are dealing with a spiraling diamond and are attempting to do what they can to stop the turn.

Now, one thing that we did learn this year is that you don't starburst out of those problems....

By the way, 9 way pullouts spiral quite nicely. Highly recommend it. Wink


sprtdth  (D 4730)

Sep 26, 2005, 4:55 PM
Post #22 of 35 (2987 views)
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Re: [CRWCheryl] 25 way attempt from one King Air [In reply to] Can't Post

Actually, the diamond death spiral has come in quite useful for taking care of problems. Think about it... You have someone (who shall remain nameless and blonde but not Wendy) docking a row 5 wing and wrapping it. If the pilot allows the formation to turn to the heavy side, you keep it from wrapping more. It's flying and scary, but those on the outside wing understand they are dealing with a spiraling diamond and are attempting to do what they can to stop the turn.

__________________________________________________

It was pretty impressive to watch!
Gives new meaning to "Things do revolve around me!" Eh, CherylCool


birddog  (F 588)

Sep 27, 2005, 2:58 AM
Post #23 of 35 (2964 views)
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Re: [faulknerwn] 25 way attempt from one King Air [In reply to] Can't Post

hey you guys have all the fun over there!!Wink


birddog  (F 588)

Oct 2, 2005, 1:52 AM
Post #24 of 35 (2868 views)
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Re: [leapdog] 25 way attempt from one King Air [In reply to] Can't Post

hey now your talkin i might even come over from orstalia if looks like happening!Smile


mdrejhon  (C 3268)

Oct 2, 2005, 3:51 PM
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Re: [BillyVance] 25 way attempt from one King Air [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Let's stagger the loads, first plane goes up to 19,000 ft, second plane up to 16,000 feet, first plane second load up to 8000 feet, and the last load up to 6000 feet or thereabouts.... It could work...
Mathematically on the clock, I think it is more logical to fly two loads to 19000, then there's extra safety margin for the remaining loads which would not need to be as hurried. For the first drop, even the two planes could be spaced far apart, there's plenty of altitude for two loads to converge. You dogs know more than I do so there may be something obvious I missed...

But very neat, a 25-way out of one King Air. Almost unbelievable.


(This post was edited by mdrejhon on Oct 2, 2005, 3:54 PM)


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