Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
Double Steering lines....

 


Merrick  (A 38462)

May 25, 2001, 9:00 AM
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Double Steering lines.... Can't Post

I jump a Sabre 190, and I'm sure most of you know that the bigger Sabres come with dual steering lines. One of these lines are a non-loadbearing line, meaning that I could simply pull on it & it will come out of the velcro where I stow any excess line after setting my brakes... Well, as you can imagine, this is no good.... sometimes leaving me with one line sagging waaay down on each line set (would make for some ugle line stows)!

Is there any way to subdue this little sucker, aside from having the cascade modified into being a single steering line? It can really be a pain at times when I'm packing!

"Grab the grass, it's the bounce that kills!"
Merrick


mikefarmer  (D 19948)

May 25, 2001, 11:24 AM
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Re: Double Steering lines.... [In reply to] Can't Post

My Dad has a Sabre 190, and it seems like he just stows the one line, and then lets the excess of the other one fall into the pack job. BUT, I'm not sure. You guys gonna be out this weekend?

Mike

Veni, Vidi, Velcro...I came, I saw, I stuck Around


Merrick  (A 38462)

May 25, 2001, 11:59 AM
Post #3 of 19 (2113 views)
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Re: Double Steering lines.... [In reply to] Can't Post

That's cool, I may try that..... Yeah, we're definitely going to be out there this weekend. Gonna' try to get there early Saturday morning, so I'm sure we'll see ya out there!

Anybody else got any ideas as well???

"Grab the grass, it's the bounce that kills!"
Merrick


cyberskydive  (C 28534)

May 25, 2001, 1:31 PM
Post #4 of 19 (2100 views)
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Re: Double Steering lines.... [In reply to] Can't Post

I dont have a bigger sabre, but have packed a few, and if I am recalling correctly I just stowed them normal without probs.

But what ya could do maybe is do what farmer said above, and instead of leaving them hanging you could have a rigger sow little "stows" on the back of the riser like the new sunpath velcroless or vectors, and put that excess in there stead of having it hang out.

maybe?

C-28534
http://www.sunraydesigns.com


Merrick  (A 38462)

May 25, 2001, 1:35 PM
Post #5 of 19 (2099 views)
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Re: Double Steering lines.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, I generally don't have too many probs, but every once in a while I'll move the canopy back & sometimes let the lines drag on my shoulder, which pulls that one line out of it's keeper (currently the same as the stowed line).

Who knows man, I think I'm going to be downsizing to a 170 or 150 soon anyways, so I guess it doesn't matter much! LOL

"Grab the grass, it's the bounce that kills!"
Merrick


spectre230
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May 25, 2001, 2:53 PM
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riggerrob  (D 14840)

May 27, 2001, 8:01 AM
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Re: Double Steering lines.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Since the extra steering line is going to fall out at line stretch, you are better off leaving it unstowed. The other reason for not stowing the extra steering line below the guide ring is that as it unstows it will slide through the guide ring at high speed and saw through the locking loop. Just push all the slack in your steering lines to the top.



Kris  (D 26033)

May 28, 2001, 3:35 PM
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Merrick,

So far I haven't had any problems with my Sabre 210 in the 70-ish jumps since I had it converted to one brake line on each side.

If you decide to go that route, just make sure Mike or Tony is the one who does it. The original rigger who did mine got the trim wrong and it is really amazing how well my canopy flies after having the conversion correctly done.

Catch me next time I am packing and I will show you how I have mine cascaded.

Kris




Merrick  (A 38462)

May 29, 2001, 7:58 AM
Post #9 of 19 (1988 views)
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Re: Double Steering lines.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks everybody, I just started letting that one line fall into my pack job, it seems to work really well.... plus I don't have to really deal with it now while stowing my lines!

Now, if I can just figure out why my canopy kinda dives off to the right every other time I deploy! This could actually be body position, but haven't really tried looking at the problem yet.

Again, thanks for all your help!

"Grab the grass, it's the bounce that kills!"
Merrick


weid14  (D 20292)

May 29, 2001, 8:59 AM
Post #10 of 19 (1982 views)
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Re: Double Steering lines.... [In reply to] Can't Post

some people "tilt" to the right when deploying, could be that you're doing that and it's putting you into a right hand turn wich continues doing opening (maybe you're sitting on teh right side of the harness to much also). pick a point on the horizon, watch it as you deploy -- where is it going. Also try to feel which leg strap has the most pressure.



apoil  (D License)

Jun 5, 2001, 12:41 AM
Post #11 of 19 (1932 views)
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Re: Double Steering lines.... [In reply to] Can't Post

If you aren't loading it very heavily, you can just remove the damn thing.
I was under my sabre 190 at about 1.1 and I just pulled it off, leaving the cascade of three on each side. It had no affect on the flying or landing characteristics.



spectre230
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Jun 5, 2001, 1:19 AM
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Kris  (D 26033)

Jun 5, 2001, 6:54 AM
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Re: Double Steering lines.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Exactly, Spectre230. While I didn't like having that extra line on my Sabre 210 I didn't just yank it off, it is part of the tail section and does serve a purpose.

Instead, I simply had a rigger cascade it into the main brake line and I haven't had a problem since and I now only have one brake line on each side to worry about when packing & stowing...

Kris




wildblue  (D 26027)

Jun 5, 2001, 7:57 AM
Post #14 of 19 (1918 views)
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Re: Double Steering lines.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Kris -

Have your openings been different since you did that?



Kris  (D 26033)

Jun 5, 2001, 8:47 PM
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Re: Double Steering lines.... [In reply to] Can't Post

No, my openings have been just the same but I do think there were some minor trim problems on my canopy to begin with.

PD is sending me a Stiletto to demo and I'm going to send my canopy to them to check out since I'll still have the Stiletto to fly.

But the openings haven't noticibly changed after the conversion.

Kris



apoil  (D License)

Jun 11, 2001, 5:02 AM
Post #16 of 19 (1851 views)
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Re: Double Steering lines.... [In reply to] Can't Post

I removed it on the advice of a rigger.

Yes it's there for the opening sequence, but it's decoupled from the others to REDUCE the shock in the center cell during opening (this was also explained to me by a very knowledgable rigger when I purchased the canopy) It's because the bigger sabres often have bigger guys loading them and the center cells take the shock harder. So by making them looser it lessense the stress on that line and the attachment point.

So by removing it entirely, you are only *helping* the opening.

The only question is on the other end, with the steering and flaring, and like I said, if you are lightly loading it (1.1 or less) it will not have a noticeable effect.




apoil  (D License)

Jun 11, 2001, 5:07 AM
Post #17 of 19 (1850 views)
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Re: Double Steering lines.... [In reply to] Can't Post

You guys are funny.

You say it is there, and serves a purpose so don't remove it, but you don't give a shred of thought to the consequences of cascading it into the other three, as if that is ok, and removing it would be a terrible thing.

The point of it being decoupled is that it isn't SET on deployment. When you cascade it it IS set.
To me that's a big difference. Not necessarily bad, but of equal concern to the removal. It will effect possibly the opening, and certainly the amount of stress on that line during opening. And under light wing loading's it's probably an ok solution.

But removing it was equally ok, under light wing loadings.
The concern there isn't opening forces, it's turning and flaring, and they were not affected by removing the line.






afreedman  (D 23535)

Jun 11, 2001, 10:24 AM
Post #18 of 19 (1835 views)
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Re: Double Steering lines.... [In reply to] Can't Post

The double steering line on large Sabres is similar to that of Strong Tandem Rigs. When packing a Sabre 190 and larger you should not just leave the excess line in the canopy, you should stow the single line from both sides of the canopy onto a rubberband attached to (I think, I havn't packed a large Sabre in a while) the inside steering line attachment point from either side.

Blues,
Adam



Kris  (D 26033)

Jun 11, 2001, 10:43 AM
Post #19 of 19 (1833 views)
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Re: Double Steering lines.... [In reply to] Can't Post

You bring up a good point and an excellent idea with the rubber band trick...

Kris





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