Forums: Skydiving: Wind Tunnels:
Rucksack, rifle and snowshoes?

 


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Sep 4, 2005, 9:16 AM
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Rucksack, rifle and snowshoes? Can't Post

This question is aimed primarily at Military Freefall types.

Which wind tunnels are powerful enough that you can fly while wearing rucksack, rifle and snowshoes?


Paulipod  (B 1234)

Sep 4, 2005, 9:21 AM
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Re: [riggerrob] Rucksack, rifle and snowshoes? [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Our tunnel certainly has enough power to fly with gear... and then some Wink

Smile


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Sep 4, 2005, 11:10 AM
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Re: [riggerrob] Rucksack, rifle and snowshoes? [In reply to] Can't Post

Ft Bragg?

AAC May have the power ask skymonkey1 he may be able to tell ya.

Eloy seams to have the numbers to do that also.

Matt


Premier LouDiamond  (D 25931)
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Sep 4, 2005, 5:03 PM
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Re: [riggerrob] Rucksack, rifle and snowshoes? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Which wind tunnels are powerful enough that you can fly while wearing rucksack, rifle and snowshoes?



The Bragg tunnel,Eloy, not too sure about Perris and Orlando, and there is an outdoor tunnel in NC(forget the name) that claims to be powerful enough to do it as well. I can almost guarantee you that none of them are going to let you climb into their tunnel with snowshoes attached to you. The snag hazard is too high and snowshoes won't fly that much different than a weapon system like an AT-4 or mortar tube when rigged in the same manner. In fact, snowshoes weigh substantially less than those items so I don't see how that could be a factor in wind tunnel flying since they weigh next to nothing. The reality of the matter is something like that would be better off inside a drop bag along with the rucksack and LBE/Vest if they fit.


Bodyflight.Net

Sep 4, 2005, 7:07 PM
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Re: [riggerrob] Rucksack, rifle and snowshoes? [In reply to] Can't Post

the AAC tunnel (Appalachian Amusement Center) in NC is about to start what I call it's 'final' phase of testing, where they bring the motor up 50 more rpms, adjust the pitch on the blades and finish the interior chamber..

right now running raw it can exceed your requirements on cooler days.. but it loses alot of density in the heat (85 degrees and up).. so until they make the final additions to it, I would say it isn't quite ready yet but will be when they fully open by next spring.

The largest flyer at AAC so far was a 6' 285lb guy but he was an experienced flyer.

They also don't seem to care what you bring in or wear too much since there is no way to harm the wind tunnel.


(This post was edited by Bodyflight.Net on Sep 4, 2005, 7:09 PM)


GQ_jumper  (D 29397)

Sep 4, 2005, 10:48 PM
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Re: [LouDiamond] Rucksack, rifle and snowshoes? [In reply to] Can't Post

My team might be headin to eloy soon to do some flying, i'll post pics if we throw our rucks on in there.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Sep 5, 2005, 7:48 AM
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Re: [LouDiamond] Rucksack, rifle and snowshoes? [In reply to] Can't Post

The Canadian Army likes to tie snowshoes to their rifles and sling them over their left shoulder, trap with belly band, etc.
Full-sized snowshoes are almost as long as FNC1A1 rifles (7.62mm NATO ammunition) and would not fit into most drop bags.


Premier LouDiamond  (D 25931)
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Sep 5, 2005, 10:53 AM
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Re: [riggerrob] Rucksack, rifle and snowshoes? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
The Canadian Army likes to tie snowshoes to their rifles and sling them over their left shoulder, trap with belly band, etc.

Point taken. I think the snowshoes aren't an issue for windtunnel flight as their weight is negligible in comparison to a 250lb man, 50lb rig, 100lb ruck, etc. I am assuming your question is based on a tunnels ability to support a man with a full combat load. If the tunnel can support a man with a standard combat load on, the addition of something as light as snowshoes really won't be a determining factor. Flying the snowshoes in the tunnel is more of a rigging/flight characteristcs issue than weight. I think it would be more of an issue if you wanted to fly a 250 lb man in full gear with the addition of say something like a 200lb or heavier item attached to him. Again, the only places I am positive that can handle a man under a full combat load, with or without snowshoes,AT-4, Mortar tube,SAW,etc , are Bragg and Eloy.


Bowen  (C 37322)

Sep 5, 2005, 12:07 PM
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Re: [LouDiamond] Rucksack, rifle and snowshoes? [In reply to] Can't Post

We have flown military people in full gear many times. the sack will help give lift.

-Bowen


axel  (D 22415)

Sep 5, 2005, 4:37 PM
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Re: [riggerrob] Rucksack, rifle and snowshoes? [In reply to] Can't Post

SkyVenture Arizona just flew Military with "dummy" parachute and rucksack and there was still plenty of power leftWink


GQ_jumper  (D 29397)

Sep 5, 2005, 6:33 PM
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Re: [axel] Rucksack, rifle and snowshoes? [In reply to] Can't Post

I flew the Bragg tunnel at the same speed with and without the ruck, I think the extra surface area makes up for the extra weight.


Premier LouDiamond  (D 25931)
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Sep 5, 2005, 7:46 PM
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Re: [GQ_jumper] Rucksack, rifle and snowshoes? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I think the extra surface area makes up for the extra weight.

You have to increase the power(mph) once you start throwing gear on if you want to get off the net and fly,especially for the big guys.


diablopilot  (D License)

Sep 7, 2005, 4:44 PM
Post #13 of 18 (3203 views)
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Re: [riggerrob] Rucksack, rifle and snowshoes? [In reply to] Can't Post

SkyVenture Perris has flown people geared up like that.....well maybe minus the snow shoes.....those could hurt....Cool


SVCO

Sep 8, 2005, 6:08 AM
Post #14 of 18 (3177 views)
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Re: [riggerrob] Rucksack, rifle and snowshoes? [In reply to] Can't Post

Skyventure Colorado upgraded to 1200 hp for military capability. That is 200 hp more than Orlando and Perris.


Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

Sep 8, 2005, 12:02 PM
Post #15 of 18 (3160 views)
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Re: [riggerrob] Rucksack, rifle and snowshoes? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
This question is aimed primarily at Military Freefall types.

Which wind tunnels are powerful enough that you can fly while wearing rucksack, rifle and snowshoes?

The Fort Bragg tunnel was designed specifically to get the burliest SF guy off the net with full combat gear and pin him to the ceiling.


HNGummeson

Sep 14, 2005, 2:47 PM
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Re: [riggerrob] Rucksack, rifle and snowshoes? [In reply to] Can't Post

Any Windtunnel that can carry a jumper with standard freefall suit will carry a jumper with full combat gear. This includes all SkyVenture designs and naturally the Army tunnel in NC. I would expect any tunnel being built for skydiving, from now on, to be plenty powerful as they all need to cater to FreeFlyers as well FlatFlyers to be competitive. FreerFlyers need even more power than standard FreeFallers. I would not count on older designs where special tunnel suit is needed to be able to fly.

However, an even bigger issue than to find a good tunnel, is to find the correct tunnel gear. In order to create a good learning environment and to protect the tunnel, operator and flyer, specially modified gear should be used. Here are just one thing to consider: Your rig does not need to be heavy but the Ruck does, thus offsetting the need for power while simulating correct handle placement and the feel of a real Ruck.

All gear brought into the tunnel should be bullet proof in respect to things that can snag the net, pieced that can come loose, and hardware that can crack the windows or hurt the tunnel instructor. I think any tunnel owner allowing home made tunnel gear to enter their tunnels need to make sure they have deep pockets and great insurances. There is a big push from military clients to fly gear in civilian tunnels. Many tunnel owners is giving into this push allowing just about anything to enter their tunnels. I think this will stop very soon.

My name is Niklas Gummeson and my company, G-TEC, has built and operates several military tunnel rigs including MC-4 and SOV3-HH with Rucks. Done right and with the correct equipment there is no better, safer and more cost effective way to teach candidates going through the pipeline how to freefall with combat gear, then in the tunnel. This also goes for operators that need to keep their freefall skills current. In addition I like to use radios on my students so I can coach them verbally as well as hands on while working with them in the tunnel.


(This post was edited by HNGummeson on Sep 14, 2005, 2:52 PM)


dgskydive  (C 25738)

Sep 23, 2005, 4:02 PM
Post #17 of 18 (3007 views)
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Re: [riggerrob] Rucksack, rifle and snowshoes? [In reply to] Can't Post

They do it in the Perris tunnel. No snow shoes yet or weapons. But hte ruck and a bunch of weight in it. When they were testing the eqipment one of the Tunnel instructors was even sit flying with the stuff on.


dgskydive  (C 25738)

Sep 23, 2005, 4:04 PM
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Re: [HNGummeson] Rucksack, rifle and snowshoes? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello Niklas. I was just posting about you and Chris. Didn't notice you had answered already.

How much weight did you guys have the time i saw you and chris fly with rucks?



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