Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Swooping and Canopy Control:
Longer risers - pros and cons

 

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frost  (D 25011)

Aug 28, 2005, 5:48 PM
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Longer risers - pros and cons Can't Post

any thoughts? Pros, cons... Personal preferences? I heard about lighter riser pressure, longer recovery arc.
Thanks


Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

Aug 29, 2005, 7:01 AM
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Re: [frost] Longer risers - pros and cons [In reply to] Can't Post

Longer risers give you a longer recovery arc.


masterrigger1  (D 14167)

Aug 29, 2005, 7:12 AM
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Re: [SkymonkeyONE] Longer risers - pros and cons [In reply to] Can't Post

What Chuck said plus the longer risers create more parasitic drag than if you had longer lines.

Look at the center page photo of Shannon in Skydiving magazine.

He has about 26-27" long risers. You can scale it from a know value in the pic.

MEL


frost  (D 25011)

Aug 29, 2005, 7:21 AM
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Re: [masterrigger1] Longer risers - pros and cons [In reply to] Can't Post

so where are the benefits?


freeflydrew  (D 23992)

Aug 29, 2005, 10:59 AM
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Re: [frost] Longer risers - pros and cons [In reply to] Can't Post

I use long risers... I think they're 27's or 29's on a stiletto 107 and it flies like a totally different canopy. For one thing, I like reaching up further when I grab the front and rear risers, and also feel like I have a little more control because of the added length... Can't think of anything else off the top of my head, but I definityely like them a lot!


Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

Aug 29, 2005, 11:03 AM
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Re: [frost] Longer risers - pros and cons [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
so where are the benefits?

Like I said: a longer recovery arc. A longer recovery arc means you canopy is going to naturally build more speed in a dive/turn and also maintain it much longer.


superstu  (D License)

Aug 29, 2005, 11:09 AM
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Re: [freeflydrew] Longer risers - pros and cons [In reply to] Can't Post

 i think longer risers have more to do with body mechanics than anything. i pull my 23" risers down just as far as my old 20" risers, but because of the added 3'' i'm dive further and faster. but yeah, one is further away from the canopy with longer risers so you have a bigger pendulum effect.


Dominik  (D 11240)

Aug 30, 2005, 2:28 AM
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Re: [frost] Longer risers - pros and cons [In reply to] Can't Post

For me the benefit of long riser is mainly (the feeling) to have more control with frontriser and rearriser inputs ...


(This post was edited by Dominik on Aug 30, 2005, 2:28 AM)


marks  (D 22296)

Aug 30, 2005, 8:28 AM
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Re: [Dominik] Longer risers - pros and cons [In reply to] Can't Post

with longer risers it is easier to pull the riser down. it is easier to pull down on something when your arm is at full arm extension.

try doing pullups from 1/2 to 1/4 arm extension, it is much more difficult to do them than it is to do them from full arm extension.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Aug 30, 2005, 8:49 AM
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Re: [marks] Longer risers - pros and cons [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
with longer risers it is easier to pull the riser down. it is easier to pull down on something when your arm is at full arm extension.

Really?

I thought is was the other way around.

My take on the long risers is A) the higher up you can reach, the further you can pull the riser, and B) the increase in distance from the pilot to canopy allows for a longer pedulum swing which equals a slower recovery from a dive (AKA more time in the dive).


ccowden

Aug 30, 2005, 9:21 AM
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Re: [davelepka] Longer risers - pros and cons [In reply to] Can't Post

I tend to agree. With the increased length on my risers, I experience a much higher riser pressure.


marks  (D 22296)

Aug 30, 2005, 11:43 AM
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Re: [ccowden] Longer risers - pros and cons [In reply to] Can't Post

well that is a perception then.

go hang on a pullup bar and do pull ups from half way. it is alot easier to do full ones.

also with arms at full length, you can use your body weight to pull them down. and not arm muscles.

if you fly a vx you learn these things.


think about it. why would riser length affect riser pressure?

it doesnt. if it did it would be very little.

it is only easier to pull it because your arm is straight and not bent.


(This post was edited by marks on Aug 30, 2005, 11:46 AM)


masterrigger1  (D 14167)

Aug 30, 2005, 11:54 AM
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Re: [marks] Longer risers - pros and cons [In reply to] Can't Post

Both of you are right, it just depends on how long your arms are. Think about it!!!Smile

MEL


ccowden

Aug 30, 2005, 12:48 PM
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Re: [marks] Longer risers - pros and cons [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok Mark. You are right, I am wrong.


marks  (D 22296)

Aug 30, 2005, 3:50 PM
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Re: [ccowden] Longer risers - pros and cons [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Ok Mark. You are right, I am wrong.

i dont know if that is sarcastic or not.

but im giving you reasons why i think im right.

please give me reasons why you think your right.

you may just actually shed some light on what im thinking.

ok lets try this.

if the canopy requires 1/2 your body weight to pull down the riser and 1/2 your body weight is all you can pull with one arm. do you think the riser is coming down? probably not.

now if you straighten your arm to full extension you can hang your full body weight on it, thus giving you 2x the pull force. because if your arm is bent, you have to use the muscle to hold your arm bent to pull down.

of course you not pulling down "as far" but your actually deflecting the front of the canopy more. your not pulling it down to your chest like you would if you had 17 inch risers.

say you had 17 inch risers and you could pull the riser down 3 inches. that would be significantly lower than if you had 24 inch risers, but say you could pull the 24 inch risers 3 inches farther than the 17 inch risers, that would give you a difference of, 4 inches further with the longer risers. first 3 inches body weight, and the second 3 inches with muscle.

ok so maybe that isnt a great explanation, but you go get yourself under a vx with 17 inch risers, then go try it with 24 inch risers, i know your tall enough. then get back to me.

if you think im wrong, fine. i dont have a problem with that, but please explain why you think that so i may understand a different way of thinking than mine.


i will not argue with you on this, but i would like to know your thinking on why shorter risers are easier to pull down.

granted, i have no idea what im talking about. im just spouting shit out my ass.Tongue


(This post was edited by marks on Aug 30, 2005, 3:51 PM)


marks  (D 22296)

Aug 30, 2005, 3:56 PM
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Re: [masterrigger1] Longer risers - pros and cons [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Both of you are right, it just depends on how long your arms are. Think about it!!!

i would have to def agree with that.

if your arm can only reach the dive loop on 17 inch risers, then those are long enough.


Widgeon  (D License)

Aug 30, 2005, 4:38 PM
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Re: [marks] Longer risers - pros and cons [In reply to] Can't Post

I have heard you say several times that you don't turn with your risers at all........all harness. Why would you go back? Is it the riser pressure difference on the velocity vs the VX or what? Not fucking with you, just curious.


Widgeon  (D License)

Aug 30, 2005, 4:42 PM
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Re: [SkymonkeyONE] Longer risers - pros and cons [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Longer risers give you a longer recovery arc.

I know this to be true but how much of a difference are we talking about? I mean significant enough to justify buying new risers or not?


(This post was edited by Widgeon on Aug 30, 2005, 4:42 PM)


Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

Aug 30, 2005, 4:47 PM
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Re: [Widgeon] Longer risers - pros and cons [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Longer risers give you a longer recovery arc.

I know this to be true but how much of a difference are we talking about? I mean significant enough to justify buying new risers or not?

Absolutely. Four additional inches made my Velo fly like a completely different canopy.


Widgeon  (D License)

Aug 30, 2005, 4:48 PM
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Re: [SkymonkeyONE] Longer risers - pros and cons [In reply to] Can't Post

How do you reach one inch higher???Tongue


marks  (D 22296)

Aug 30, 2005, 5:14 PM
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Re: [Widgeon] Longer risers - pros and cons [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I have heard you say several times that you don't turn with your risers at all........all harness. Why would you go back? Is it the riser pressure difference on the velocity vs the VX or what? Not fucking with you, just curious.

well mike, your right. i do turn all harness.

but if you watch the swoops i have my hands in the risers in case i need them to whip the canopy around because maybe my altitude is off, or my acuraccy on the gates is off..

in a perfect swoop, for me, it would be all harness.

im a firm believer in all harness turns because the is ALOT less deformation of the wing.

but you got to have the altitude right, and you got to have the acuraccy to hit the gates. so i use the risers if i "have to".Wink

does that explain?


(This post was edited by marks on Aug 30, 2005, 5:16 PM)


marks  (D 22296)

Aug 30, 2005, 5:17 PM
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Re: [Widgeon] Longer risers - pros and cons [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
How do you reach one inch higher???Tongue

you dont, thats why i tell peeps to get the longest risers they can reach the slider with.

of course, for swooping.


RMURRAY

Aug 30, 2005, 5:18 PM
Post #23 of 54 (2284 views)
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Re: [SkymonkeyONE] Longer risers - pros and cons [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Longer risers give you a longer recovery arc.

I know this to be true but how much of a difference are we talking about? I mean significant enough to justify buying new risers or not?

Absolutely. Four additional inches made my Velo fly like a completely different canopy.

what about openings, when you add 4 inches to the risers does the slider tend to stay up longer, does your Velocity "seek" more and open off heading more? someone said this is one of the effects of a longer lineset on any canopy can't remember who it was...

rm


marks  (D 22296)

Aug 30, 2005, 5:18 PM
Post #24 of 54 (2283 views)
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Re: [SkymonkeyONE] Longer risers - pros and cons [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Longer risers give you a longer recovery arc.

I know this to be true but how much of a difference are we talking about? I mean significant enough to justify buying new risers or not?

Absolutely. Four additional inches made my Velo fly like a completely different canopy.

4 inches on a high performance canopy is ALOT! and will make a HUGE difference.

that is unless you cant reach the dive loops.Wink


marks  (D 22296)

Aug 30, 2005, 5:20 PM
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Re: [RMURRAY] Longer risers - pros and cons [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Longer risers give you a longer recovery arc.

I know this to be true but how much of a difference are we talking about? I mean significant enough to justify buying new risers or not?

Absolutely. Four additional inches made my Velo fly like a completely different canopy.

what about openings, when you add 4 inches to the risers does the slider tend to stay up longer, does your Velocity "seek" more and open off heading more? someone said this is one of the effects of a longer lineset on any canopy can't remember who it was...

rm

speed the opening up a little and it wont seek as much.

but i have no idea if longer lines make it seek more. i wouldnt think so though.


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