Forums: Skydiving: General Skydiving Discussions:
Is death game legal?

 

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veter_

Aug 1, 2005, 9:31 AM
Post #1 of 323 (12218 views)
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Is death game legal? Can't Post

There is a sicko "game" ("Bounce Bingo") going on at my DZ where participants bet money on jumpers who they think will die in a skydiving accident. The pot goes to the winner - the person who placed a bet on the deceased jumper.

Is this legal?


P.S. I'm on the list.


Hooknswoop  (D License)

Aug 1, 2005, 9:32 AM
Post #2 of 323 (12143 views)
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Re: [veter_] Is death game legal? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I'm on the list.

Why are you on the list?

Derek


Kris  (D 26033)

Aug 1, 2005, 9:38 AM
Post #3 of 323 (12122 views)
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Re: [veter_] Is death game legal? [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't know about the legality of it, but if you're on the list, maybe you should take a big step back and look at why...

I've been known to place a bet on bounce bingo (if I'd picked that a certain DGIT was going to compound break his right femur instead of the left I would have won once!), but usually we just fill out their incident report beforehand and show it to them if they just won't listen to reason.

All that's left is to fill in the details and sign it.


RippedCord  (B 26693)

Aug 1, 2005, 9:38 AM
Post #4 of 323 (12120 views)
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Re: [veter_] Is death game legal? [In reply to] Can't Post

Legal but not wise. As the pot size increases, so does the financial motive to "fix" the results via sabotage.


ChrisL  (C 35323)

Aug 1, 2005, 9:41 AM
Post #5 of 323 (12103 views)
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Re: [veter_] Is death game legal? [In reply to] Can't Post

Technically thats gambling, so unless gambling is legal in the state you are in then I'd say that technically that game is not legal.

Thats my opinion.


Premier GravityGirl  (D 18897)

Aug 1, 2005, 9:51 AM
Post #6 of 323 (12071 views)
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Re: [RippedCord] Is death game legal? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Legal but not wise. As the pot size increases, so does the financial motive to "fix" the results via sabotage.

Jeeezus. I'm sure the pot's not THAT big. Crazy


jose  (D License)

Aug 1, 2005, 9:59 AM
Post #7 of 323 (12049 views)
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Re: [veter_] Is death game legal? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
There is a sicko "game" ("Bounce Bingo") going on at my DZ where participants bet money on jumpers who they think will die in a skydiving accident. The pot goes to the winner - the person who placed a bet on the deceased jumper. Is this legal? P.S. I'm on the list.

Sound like some pretty fucked up shit right there. I'd be pretty damn embarrased to be part of a DZ that is that morbid. Legal or not, it's lame as hell.

Like the other guy said, if you are on the list, it might be a good time to figure out why.


WatchYourStep  (D License)

Aug 1, 2005, 10:00 AM
Post #8 of 323 (12042 views)
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Re: [veter_] Is death game legal? [In reply to] Can't Post

Are you serious?

That makes me sick to my stomach. It's one thing to say, "Person X flies like an idiot if he isn't careful he's going to kill himself." but it's another thing to say, "I'm putting $5 into the pot saying Person X is the next person to die."

Does your DZO condone this practice? If so chalk up your home DZ as one place I never want to visit.


Ron

Aug 1, 2005, 10:02 AM
Post #9 of 323 (12036 views)
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Re: [veter_] Is death game legal? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
There is a sicko "game" ("Bounce Bingo") going on at my DZ where participants bet money on jumpers who they think will die in a skydiving accident

Thats the "black death" aspect of the sport. We also call them DGIT (Dead Guy In Training).

In reply to:
P.S. I'm on the list

Instead of finding out if it is illegal (I can only assume so you can call the police). I'd spend my time trying to fiqure a way off that list.

The #1 way to get on that list is to make choices based on ego, not experience, and not listening to those who tell you something is a bad idea.

I'd work to get off the list, not calling the law.


AggieDave  (D License)

Aug 1, 2005, 10:07 AM
Post #10 of 323 (12027 views)
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Re: [WatchYourStep] Is death game legal? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Does your DZO condone this practice? If so chalk up your home DZ as one place I never want to visit.

People don't get on that list on a whim, it takes a decent deal of time of being a fuckup to get on that list. Its not just being a fuckup, its being one and being cocky about it, not taking advice and help that everyone at the DZ is trying to give to help a jumper not be a DGIT.


WatchYourStep  (D License)

Aug 1, 2005, 10:13 AM
Post #11 of 323 (12005 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] Is death game legal? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm obviously new to the game here so I don't understand all the things that go on, but if that's the case wouldn't/shouldn't the DZO step in and tell they person they aren't allowed to jump there anymore?


Randy_H  (C License)

Aug 1, 2005, 10:13 AM
Post #12 of 323 (12003 views)
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Re: [WatchYourStep] Is death game legal? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Does your DZO condone this practice? If so chalk up your home DZ as one place I never want to visit.

exactly... I wonder if the DZ S&TA is aware of this?


Newbie  (C License)

Aug 1, 2005, 10:18 AM
Post #13 of 323 (11990 views)
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Re: [jose] Is death game legal? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
There is a sicko "game" ("Bounce Bingo") going on at my DZ where participants bet money on jumpers who they think will die in a skydiving accident. The pot goes to the winner - the person who placed a bet on the deceased jumper. Is this legal? P.S. I'm on the list.

Sound like some pretty fucked up shit right there. I'd be pretty damn embarrased to be part of a DZ that is that morbid. Legal or not, it's lame as hell.

Like the other guy said, if you are on the list, it might be a good time to figure out why.

seconded


hookitt  (D License)

Aug 1, 2005, 10:19 AM
Post #14 of 323 (11986 views)
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Re: [veter_] Is death game legal? [In reply to] Can't Post

Why are you on the list?


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Aug 1, 2005, 10:21 AM
Post #15 of 323 (11980 views)
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Re: [Kris] Is death game legal? [In reply to] Can't Post

I've had to pay up on a few cases of beer owned with a certian DZ.commer on femer's. Shes up on me right now since she correctly called the month of injury for the latest round. I was off by a few months. There is a group of people out there that see DGIT coming a mile away and after the person just blocks out what ever people tell them about the only thing left to do is sit back and watch.

Funny thing is.. I've had a case on myself after my latest downsize a few years ago. SlyUnsure I figured the greatest chance of femering in or killing myself was then.


Brian425  (A 45378)

Aug 1, 2005, 10:22 AM
Post #16 of 323 (11970 views)
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Re: [veter_] Is death game legal? [In reply to] Can't Post

It's my understanding that "Bounce Bingo" is almost as old as skydiving. As far as legal, it might be. All the money is paid out. There is no "hold back" or "Vig" for the organizer. This is the same idea behind all the office pool during football season and March Madness.

Face it, if you are on the list, it's commentary on your skydiving. You should work to improve your skydiving and reputation. This would get you off the list.

If I made a list, I would ask why I made it. Then I would work my butt of to fix the reasons I made the list.

I'm sorry if you are offended. It's only a game.

B


Brian425  (A 45378)

Aug 1, 2005, 10:27 AM
Post #17 of 323 (11951 views)
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Re: [WatchYourStep] Is death game legal? [In reply to] Can't Post

It's $10 to get in.


Feeblemind  (D 28621)

Aug 1, 2005, 10:27 AM
Post #18 of 323 (11949 views)
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Re: [veter_] Is death game legal? [In reply to] Can't Post

Well being a tourist I would hope the experienced folks at your DZ have made a strong effort to educate these folks. I feel pretty confident that the list is a last ditch effort to show some hardhead that they just aren't "getting it!" and now folks are betting on their demise. I must wonder though that if getting handed an pre-completed incident report with all their info on it doesn't get through to them why would a S, T, & A and DZO allow someone this unsafe to continue jumping at their DZ. If the hard head kills himself thats one thing, but what if the moron takes out someone else??


RhondaLea  (A 29204)

Aug 1, 2005, 10:32 AM
Post #19 of 323 (11929 views)
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Re: [veter_] Is death game legal? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
There is a sicko "game" ("Bounce Bingo") going on at my DZ where participants bet money on jumpers who they think will die in a skydiving accident. The pot goes to the winner - the person who placed a bet on the deceased jumper.

Sounds about right for where you jump. It's a good dropzone, with good people and a good track record.

If a dz prides itself on "no rules," there has to be some way to keep people in line. Peer pressure exists because it works.

In reply to:
Is this legal?

Does it matter?

In reply to:
P.S. I'm on the list.

Then you need to look at why you're on the list, and do what you need to do to get off it.

On the other hand, I once knew someone who many, many experienced jumpers predicted to be a DGIT. Ten years later, he has more than a thousand base jumps and no injuries.

Often times the reason the fatality reports are such a surprise is that the names on them are not those you expect to see.

rl


WrongWay  (D 27371)

Aug 1, 2005, 11:23 AM
Post #20 of 323 (11828 views)
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Re: [veter_] Is death game legal? [In reply to] Can't Post

I've made such bets.

I'm sure at one point I was also on that "list".

And yes, you should step back and ask yourself why you're on that list.


tombuch  (D 8514)

Aug 1, 2005, 11:37 AM
Post #21 of 323 (11799 views)
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Re: [veter_] Is death game legal? [In reply to] Can't Post

There are actually two versions of the game.

The original Bounce Bingo involves buying into a pool for a piece of real estate. The actual "squares" are drawn randomly, so you know what your piece of property is, but have no say in selecting it. Bounce Bingo was a big deal at The Ranch many years ago and we went through about eight seasons of the game before we had a fatality. The dropzone manager quickly ended the game before a new pool could be established. That was about five years ago and since then we have been averaging one fatality every year. We no longer have a real DZ Manager, and some club members regenerated the game in the spirit of Ranch style sportsmanship. Shares are $10.00 each and remain valid until somebody wins the pot.

Modified Bounce Bingo is a new game for The Ranch. The idea is to highlight potential problems in advance. Any club member (or visitor) can select any other jumper and put $10.00 on him/her. If that person goes in, the pot is split among everybody that selected that person. So, you could bet on a person you consider a sure thing even though five other people selected that person, in which case the pot is split six ways. Or, you could pick the safest person on the DZ thinking that luck plays a role too, and if the safe guy goes in, you will probably be the only person betting on him and will take the entire pot. People who have been selected are listed on the board with the number of shares sold. The name of the person buying those shares isn't public, but is available to if requested. Thus, if you find yourself on the board you can go back to the purchaser and ask why, and hopefully learn something about yourself. I'm one of the S&TA's and probably won't go in, but if anybody wants to waste their money betting on me I'll be fine with it.

So far there are only a handful of players in each game, and we don't ever expect it to get big enough to incentivize any harm. It's all in good fun, and part of the historical culture of The Ranch. There have been a few complaints from people who have been selected in Modified Bounce Bingo because they don't like being labeled as a safety risk, but in reality the DZ has been abuzz with similar under-the-table discussions for years. I suppose it just hurts a lot more when you see your name on the board.

The Ranch has a very unique culture and Bounce Bingo has always been part of the BSBD thing. It's really just a way of laughing at the risks we all face every day. The Ranch has a brand new web based bulletin board under the Skydiver Central tag on a brand new web site at: http://theblueskyranch.com/. If you really don't like Bounce Bingo or Modified Bounce Bingo, or resent being on the list, share your concerns on the local board. Perhaps people will take you seriously, or perhaps they will just think your ego is bigger than your sense of humor.

Whatever.
.


veter_

Aug 1, 2005, 12:24 PM
Post #22 of 323 (11737 views)
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Re: [veter_] Is death game legal? [In reply to] Can't Post

To those who replied "why are you on the list?", I thought it's called sadomasochism to blame yourself if someone abuses you. And that you endorse death games says a lot about you.

I don't need to explain myself.

I removed my name from the death list and explicitly demanded the "organizer" (money collector) that she never puts it back. She refused, and put my name back, with an embarrassing nickname.

So let me rephrase my question - and add more:

- Is it legal to harrass someone by putting his name on a death list and collecting money, if that person explicitly demanded to stop?

- Is it legal for "players" to play the game which may solicit tampering with the equipment (or, for example, cutoff on landing) to win the game or to get the revenge?

- What action can I take to stop this fucking sick shit?

- I have a suspicion that my equipment was attempted to tamper with after the argument - specifically, one side of the slider was half collapsed after I uncollapsed the slider and left my parachute unattended, which could have lead to hard opening or a malfunction. How can I protect myself?

P.S. Those who think such a harrassment is a normal thing, leave this thread alone.

P.P.S. I have the official rules of the game, but I'm too lazy to type them in.

P.P.P.S. I can't believe this is happening at the Ranch, one of the best good vibe DZs in the world!


beowulf  (C License)

Aug 1, 2005, 12:27 PM
Post #23 of 323 (11720 views)
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Re: [veter_] Is death game legal? [In reply to] Can't Post

would you like some cheese with that wine?


nate_1979  (B 27889)

Aug 1, 2005, 12:29 PM
Post #24 of 323 (11714 views)
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Re: [veter_] Is death game legal? [In reply to] Can't Post

I find it hard to believe that someone collapsed half your slider,. ... and even if they did, you should definately notice that when you quarter it (if you dont, well.....)


nate_1979  (B 27889)

Aug 1, 2005, 12:30 PM
Post #25 of 323 (11707 views)
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Re: [veter_] Is death game legal? [In reply to] Can't Post

Ohh yea, if you dont like the treatment you get there... Stop going there... Sounds pretty simple to me. Crazy


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