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I jump Sabre 2 and have a hard opening in X jumps (on average)

 

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Poll: I jump Sabre 2 and have a hard opening in X jumps (on average)
10 8 / 10%
30 8 / 10%
100 13 / 17%
300 9 / 12%
1000 9 / 12%
3000 1 / 1%
10000 (or never) 30 / 38%
78 total votes
 
veter_

Jul 28, 2005, 2:06 PM
Post #1 of 26 (2355 views)
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I jump Sabre 2 and have a hard opening in X jumps (on average) Can't Post

By "hard opening" I mean an opening that at least causes pain.

Divide the number of jumps you made on Sabre 2 by the number of hard openings, and choose the closest number from the poll options.

If you don't jump Sabre 2 (or also jump/jumped other canopies (excluding Sabre 1)), please respond to the poll "I jump neither Sabre 2 nor Sabre 1 and have a hard opening in X jumps (on average)"


(This post was edited by veter_ on Jul 28, 2005, 2:12 PM)


FrogNog  (C 34484)

Jul 28, 2005, 3:43 PM
Post #2 of 26 (2277 views)
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Re: [veter_] I jump Sabre 2 and have a hard opening in X jumps (on average) [In reply to] Can't Post

Not a lot of jumps (maybe 75 total) on my old Sabre2 150 and my new Sabre2 170. They would sometimes open "affirmatively" but never like a ton of bricks, like sliding down a staircase headfirst, or in the famous "insta-canopy" style. Laugh


tcnelson  (C License)

Jul 28, 2005, 5:24 PM
Post #3 of 26 (2226 views)
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Re: [veter_] I jump Sabre 2 and have a hard opening in X jumps (on average) [In reply to] Can't Post

300 jumps on my sabre2 170 loaded at 1.24 and no hard openings. the canopy likes to dive off heading but, i can usually correct it with harness/riser input.


shall555  (D 7231)

Jul 28, 2005, 5:35 PM
Post #4 of 26 (2220 views)
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Re: [veter_] I jump Sabre 2 and have a hard opening in X jumps (on average) [In reply to] Can't Post

 
I just loooove this.. Mad

Just ordered a custom Sabre 2 and then all this discussion pops up about debilitating openings. Sheesh.

The only hard opening ( really, really hard ) I ever had was on a Mini-Thunderbow ( look it up ). It felt like I bent double in the harness and it hurt so bad I almost yakked while under canopy.

I was out of action for about a week.

What I'd like to know about the Sabre 2s that are reported to have opened hard:

1) What is the canopy's era ? I understand there were some subtle line/trim changes made between the Sabre 2's introduction and "today".

2) Packing method ? Pro pack ? what ?

3) Line material ? Age of the lineset ?

4) Trim ? Was the thing checked and in-trim after the teeth-rattler ?

5) Age of the canopy ?

6) Slider area & canopy area ?

Just the basics.

I figure, without all this detail, a small handful of really bad openings can't be analyzed. I'm not even considering hard/bad openings that occurred without a third party watching the jumper affected: body position, was the jumper coming out of a track, etc.

So, I remain, ever hopeful that I didn't buy a sky-bludgeon...

shall
Crazy


Lostinspace  (C 35046)

Jul 28, 2005, 5:40 PM
Post #5 of 26 (2216 views)
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Re: [veter_] I jump Sabre 2 and have a hard opening in X jumps (on average) [In reply to] Can't Post

I jump a sabre2-150. I have had 1 hard opening... on my first pack jobs. It was packing error.

My openings are pretty sweet +99% of the time.


(This post was edited by Lostinspace on Jul 28, 2005, 7:45 PM)


wildcard451  (D License)

Jul 28, 2005, 7:03 PM
Post #6 of 26 (2168 views)
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Re: [Lostinspace] I jump Sabre 2 and have a hard opening in X jumps (on average) [In reply to] Can't Post

When I pack for myself, never. The only weird openings I get are body position if I was off a little on my WS pulls, or when I use packers.

I have had mine open a little brisk at the end, like "snivel snivel snivel....inflate!" but never painful

I jump a sabre2 190 at 1.3 and I love it.Cool


NeedToJump  (D 27247)

Jul 28, 2005, 9:02 PM
Post #7 of 26 (2122 views)
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Re: [veter_] I jump Sabre 2 and have a hard opening in X jumps (on average) [In reply to] Can't Post

I've done only about 50 jumps on Sabre 2s and I have not had any hard openings on them.


kelpdiver  (B 7)

Jul 28, 2005, 9:59 PM
Post #8 of 26 (2110 views)
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Re: [veter_] I jump Sabre 2 and have a hard opening in X jumps (on average) [In reply to] Can't Post

you do realize the data you collect is hardly any better than the anecdotal stories listed in the recent threads, right?

It's esp bad that you separated out the two different polls - you hope that the same set of people view both and vote as appropriate, but you can't be sure.


feuergnom  (D License)

Jul 28, 2005, 10:36 PM
Post #9 of 26 (2102 views)
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Re: [veter_] I jump Sabre 2 and have a hard opening in X jumps (on average) [In reply to] Can't Post

the issue of sabres (I & II) having hard openings has been discussed ad nauseatum on these forums....

every canopy has the "ability" to open with brute force resulting in light to severe injuries or worse. so don't blame pd or any other manufacturer for putting out "a crappy canopy with bad opening characteristics"

before anybody asks - yes, i have read the thread in incidents


PrairieDoug  (C License)

Jul 29, 2005, 8:13 AM
Post #10 of 26 (2009 views)
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Re: [veter_] I jump Sabre 2 and have a hard opening in X jumps (on average) [In reply to] Can't Post

100 jumps on S2 170 at 1.1:1. No hard openings. During 1st 50 jumps it sometimes opened off heading, but this hasn't happened lately. Love how the canopy flies and lands.


Elisha  (D 31656)

Jul 29, 2005, 8:29 AM
Post #11 of 26 (2000 views)
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Re: [PrairieDoug] I jump Sabre 2 and have a hard opening in X jumps (on average) [In reply to] Can't Post

So, how are people defining "off heading"? If it is like 30 degrees off from how you were facing when you pulled (i.e. just a slight twist), then BFD.


moonglo  (C 34134)

Jul 29, 2005, 9:11 AM
Post #12 of 26 (1981 views)
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Re: [veter_] I jump Sabre 2 and have a hard opening in X jumps (on average) [In reply to] Can't Post

350+ jumps on a sabre2-150 (2002) loaded at 1.2:1 and never a hard opening. 150+ jumps prior on sabre 170 (1992) and only hard opening was a premi while i was on my backCrazy my fault for jumping the borrowed rig with very loose boc.
I also pack many sabres and sabre2s for others and have only had 1 complaint of a hard opening- on a sabre 2-230 i think(and the same guy has now blown up 2 sabre2's in less than 200 jumpsPirate, he's a bit fast!)


Devious  (B 27921)

Jul 29, 2005, 9:44 AM
Post #13 of 26 (1967 views)
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Re: [veter_] I jump Sabre 2 and have a hard opening in X jumps (on average) [In reply to] Can't Post

I have about 90 jumps on a Sabre 2 170 loaded at 1.38. The only hard opening I had was due to my packing error. Sabre 1's are notorious for hard openings. My Sabre 2 does tend to dive or/turn on opening. However I have changed some packing techniques and this happens far less frequently. I know people who jump Sabre 2's and always open on heading.

On the Sabre 2 if you fold the nose to deep in the S fold that can create a hard opening on Sabre 2's.


(This post was edited by Devious on Jul 29, 2005, 9:48 AM)


gemini  (D 24349)

Jul 29, 2005, 10:01 AM
Post #14 of 26 (1959 views)
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Re: [shall555] I jump Sabre 2 and have a hard opening in X jumps (on average) [In reply to] Can't Post

Mine was definitely an out-of-trim problem that I knew about and pushed for to long.


brewman  (D License)

Jul 29, 2005, 10:15 AM
Post #15 of 26 (1950 views)
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Re: [shall555] I jump Sabre 2 and have a hard opening in X jumps (on average) [In reply to] Can't Post

shall,

You'll love your new Sabre2, no worries!!

I've put about 250 jumps on a new Sabre2-190 (1:1) and a new Sabre2-170 (1.2:1) in the last two years. Both canopies have been great. Most openings are very slow and soft. From the time I look at my altimeter and decide to deploy to the slider coming down, is about 1200 feet.

A very few openings have been faster, more brisk, you definitely feel the deceleration in your leg straps, but never to the point of pain or yakking! Landings and flare power are excellent.

My biggest issue (and most others would agree) with the Sabre2 is it's tendency to turn as it fully inflates. The people I've talked to at PD say this is due to uneven inflation that's compounded by the slow/soft overall deployment. This seems to happen most often in first 50 jumps where the canopy is very slippery and difficult to pack neatly. After I got my 190 broken in, the turning on opening happened with less frequency and severity. My 170 is still in the transition stage, getting better, but not as good as my 190 was when I switched canopies.

Just to warn you, I've had a few deployments that end up with the front corners of the canopy folded under almost two cells in. PD says not to worry, just pump the risers or toggles to help the canopy fully inflate.

Don't hesitate to fire off an email to PD with any questions, comments, issues or concerns you may have. They're very responsive and seem to care about you getting most enjoyment from your new toy!!


Devious  (B 27921)

Jul 29, 2005, 10:23 AM
Post #16 of 26 (1946 views)
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Re: [brewman] I jump Sabre 2 and have a hard opening in X jumps (on average) [In reply to] Can't Post

Even though My canopy turns during opening, I love flying it and it is a great canopy to learn on.


dharma1976  (D 28634)

Jul 29, 2005, 10:57 AM
Post #17 of 26 (1924 views)
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Re: [Elisha] I jump Sabre 2 and have a hard opening in X jumps (on average) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
So, how are people defining "off heading"? If it is like 30 degrees off from how you were facing when you pulled (i.e. just a slight twist), then BFD.

well unless you consider a violent 360 an on heading, I get a few of these every 20 jumps or so.

it could be that my one leg is an inch short than the other...

cheers

Dave


mdrejhon  (C 3268)

Jul 29, 2005, 12:25 PM
Post #18 of 26 (1894 views)
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Re: [dharma1976] I jump Sabre 2 and have a hard opening in X jumps (on average) [In reply to] Can't Post

One of my openings were 180 degrees offheading. Wouldn't want to BASE on this canopy Laugh


outlawphx  (D 15712)

Jul 29, 2005, 2:20 PM
Post #19 of 26 (1864 views)
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Re: [veter_] I jump Sabre 2 and have a hard opening in X jumps (on average) [In reply to] Can't Post

Mine hasn't smacked me, but off heading openings are the norm.

Of course it is brand new, so my packjobs have been pretty sloppy.


(This post was edited by outlawphx on Jul 29, 2005, 2:21 PM)


hexadecimal

Jul 29, 2005, 3:01 PM
Post #20 of 26 (1856 views)
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Re: [veter_] I jump Sabre 2 and have a hard opening in X jumps (on average) [In reply to] Can't Post

I've had one semi-hard opening (bruised me a bit) on a Sabre2 170... though I'm 90% sure it was my body position during deployment that caused it (I was on AFP3, so I still really had no idea what was going on Tongue).

All of my openings on a Sabre2 150 have been great.


(This post was edited by hexadecimal on Jul 29, 2005, 3:02 PM)


BenediktDE

Jul 30, 2005, 10:20 AM
Post #21 of 26 (1790 views)
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Re: [veter_] I jump Sabre 2 and have a hard opening in X jumps (on average) [In reply to] Can't Post

Only few jumps (35) on my Sabre2-170 but always had very nice openings. Not always in heading but nothing hard. (once opened in high speed - strong one but not hurting)
Really like the sabre2.

Once had a very hard opening on a PD 9cell 210sqft


Fast  (D 28237)

Aug 2, 2005, 1:15 PM
Post #22 of 26 (1607 views)
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Re: [BenediktDE] I jump Sabre 2 and have a hard opening in X jumps (on average) [In reply to] Can't Post

I just don't get it.

This topic has been and continues to be beat to death. I have over 400 jumps on my S2-170 with no unreasonable openings. There is no correlation between the saber 1 and the saber 2. The former was known for hard openings and the latter is a completely different design sharing a similar name.

Saber 2s open off heading pretty consistantly. A lot of that has to do with the number of new jumpers who have them and don't sit right in the harness and also the tendency for the end cells to not inflate at the exact same time. Its not that bad. I can't say I would want to jump it on a big way but for my everyday skydiving I like the canopy.

*sigh* search and ye shall recieve the answer you're looking for *sigh*


kelel01  (A License)

Aug 2, 2005, 1:21 PM
Post #23 of 26 (1603 views)
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Re: [Fast] I jump Sabre 2 and have a hard opening in X jumps (on average) [In reply to] Can't Post

This came up because there have been at least 4 incidents in the past year on Sabre2's that have killed or seriously injured people (on opening). I think it's worth exploring, although the answer could very well be just that there are a ton of them out there, hence the seemingly high incident rate.


ZigZagMarquis  (D License)

Aug 2, 2005, 1:48 PM
Post #24 of 26 (1599 views)
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Re: [kelel01] I jump Sabre 2 and have a hard opening in X jumps (on average) [In reply to] Can't Post

I've got about 1000 jumps on an original Sabre and hard-openings from time to time just went with the teritory on that canopy it seems...

Now, I've got something like 400 to 600 jumps on a Sabre-2 and I cannot say as I've ever had what I would call a hard opening on a Sabre-2 when comparing to what a hard opening on an original Sabre could mean... now if you want to talk squirrely Sabre-2 openings... that's a different story...

Tongue


KRBKV  (C 177201)

Aug 3, 2005, 2:19 AM
Post #25 of 26 (1568 views)
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Re: [veter_] I jump Sabre 2 and have a hard opening in X jumps (on average) [In reply to] Can't Post

I have 300+ jumps on my Sabre2 135. WL - 1.62.
And i had only one hard opening because of packing. Not my packing... A man who has it packed for me, packed my canopy like his Cobalt Comp. IMO that's the difference Tongue


(This post was edited by KRBKV on Aug 3, 2005, 6:41 AM)


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