Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Swooping and Canopy Control:
At What wing loading do i have to worry about shifting int he harness?

 


Viking  (B 30397)

Jul 11, 2002, 1:50 PM
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At What wing loading do i have to worry about shifting int he harness? Can't Post

something that just poped in my head. About what wing loading would i have to start worrying about shifting in the harness and causing a dive or a turn or both?


freeflir29  (D 10000000)

Jul 11, 2002, 2:13 PM
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Re: [Viking] At What wing loading do i have to worry about shifting int he harness? [In reply to] Can't Post

Start trying it now. It will come in handy when you jump a rig with a collapsible slider. Then you can use it to turn back to the DZ while your hands are busy stowing. No need to wait for a particular wing loading. It will just be more effective later. I have a Stilletto 170 at 1.25-1.3 and even when I REALLY exaggerate my leg position it still only makes modest turns.


(This post was edited by freeflir29 on Jul 11, 2002, 2:14 PM)


PhillyKev

Jul 11, 2002, 2:16 PM
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Re: [Viking] At What wing loading do i have to worry about shifting int he harness? [In reply to] Can't Post

My newbieness tells me to worry about it from the start and develop good habits. But it actually causing a problem would probably depend on the type of canopy. I will say that I can develop a slight turn on my Saber2 (semi-elliptical) loaded at 1.2 if I lean hard or put one leg way out in front. Didn't realize I was putting a leg out at landing until I tried to figure out why I would start turning at the end of my flare.


ramon  (D 26115)

Jul 11, 2002, 2:20 PM
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Re: [Viking] At What wing loading do i have to worry about shifting int he harness? [In reply to] Can't Post

At 1.5 on an alpha, if I leaned really hard, I could percieve some sort of turning happening (same on vengeance at 1.7), pretty much mostly useless.Laugh

In all of the canopies I have jumped it did not become noticible enough to be annoying if my leg straps were not even till 2.0 on an FX. More so on a velocity.

Me and anyone who else jumps a VX will tell you it can dive without touching the toggles or the risers.


Kirils  (D License)

Jul 11, 2002, 8:21 PM
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Re: [Viking] At What wing loading do i have to worry about shifting int he harness? [In reply to] Can't Post

You might want to consider a major varaible in weight shift in the harness: The container. Some containers transfer input better to the risers than others.


eames  (D 23844)

Jul 12, 2002, 6:28 AM
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Re: [Viking] At What wing loading do i have to worry about shifting int he harness? [In reply to] Can't Post

You can do harness turns on almost any canopy (okay, maybe not a Manta 288), but on some you might have to initiate it with a different control. I don't know... 1.1? 1.2? Depends on the design. Try starting a turn with a front riser, then continuing it with harness input. You might be surprised.

Jason


eames  (D 23844)

Jul 12, 2002, 6:50 AM
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Re: [Kirils] At What wing loading do i have to worry about shifting int he harness? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
...a major varaible in weight shift in the harness: The container.
Tell me: how does your container play a major role in weight shift in your harness? If you're saying that different harnesses react differently due to rings, I'll disagree as I have in the past. If you have your chest strap loose enough, the two sides of the harness are nearly independent systems, free to move, regardless of type. The only thing that I can think of that would make a difference is a solid construction butt-strap that keeps the leg straps too close. I've never jumped or even seen a modern container on which either the yoke or the lower horizontal webbing (that connects to the container) inhibits harness movement. Please explain.

Jason


AggieDave  (D License)

Jul 12, 2002, 8:44 AM
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Re: [eames] At What wing loading do i have to worry about shifting int he harness? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
If you have your chest strap loose enough, the two sides of the harness are nearly independent systems

I've been flying emi-ellipticlas and ellipticals loaded at 1.45 for a bit now and leaning in the harness did almost nothing for me, think it could be from having the chest strap tight?


cliffharris  (D 25832)

Jul 12, 2002, 10:10 AM
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Re: [AggieDave] At What wing loading do i have to worry about shifting int he harness? [In reply to] Can't Post

Here's an exerp from a canopy manual fashioned from the Evolution Flight School:
"Shifting in the harness (raising the opposite leg strap) will help maintain a turn initiated with any control, even on larger canopies.

I think the key here is initiating the turn w/ a control input other than leg straps, and continuing the turn w/ leg straps/harness input, while releasing the initial control input that was used to iniate the turn.


RebelMike  (D 23346)

Jul 12, 2002, 12:03 PM
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Re: [Viking] At What wing loading do i have to worry about shifting int he harness? [In reply to] Can't Post

My experiance has been the following.

spectr 107 at 1.5 - Harness does nothing without control input.
crossfire 89 at 1.8 - Harness movements will affect the canopy.
xaos 78 at 2.0 - Any harness movement will affect the canopy almost immediatly.


GrumpySmurf  (C 32988)

Jul 12, 2002, 12:33 PM
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Re: [Viking] At What wing loading do i have to worry about shifting int he harness? [In reply to] Can't Post

I found it wasn't so much a weight shift due to leg position, but more a shift of the hips - push your hips left or right into the harness and the canopy will react, more pronounced so than raising or lower a leg.
That being said, I could get a decent reaction from a Safire at 1.25 and a good reaction from a Sabre-2 in the 1.4/1.5 range (depending on the amount of belly fly weight I have to wear on the jump) - to the point that a good number of my turns from d/w to base to final are almost entirely by harness shifts and next no toggle input - just look where I want to go, push the hip to that side and the canopy will turn there. I much prefer flying it this way, feels more natural. *shrug*
Results may vary based on wingloading, canopy choice and experience.


Kirils  (D License)

Jul 13, 2002, 4:55 AM
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Re: [eames] At What wing loading do i have to worry about shifting int he harness? [In reply to] Can't Post

I have a Dolphin, and have demo'd a Mirage Unisys.
My Mirage G-3 has far more harness input on turns than the other two rigs. Variations in the sizing of the harness and the design will have an affect on the amount control you have with your legs. I think most experienced swoopers would agree.



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