Forums: Community: Skydivers with Disabilities:
Flew into the hanger...ouch

 


tree_squirrel  (Student)

Jul 23, 2005, 10:38 PM
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Flew into the hanger...ouch Can't Post

I recently flew into the hanger at our club. I switched over to an HP canopy (and was supposed to have been helped land) and now i have a fractured ankle, with pins, a broken leg and and torn ligament in the other foot. Now although i will be out of my wheelchair in 6 weeks and off crutches after 6 weeks, i still will not be allowed to skydive. I have been told to leave my skydiving days behind me. Now if that isn't disabling a person i have no idea what is, My fiance doesn't want me to do it again and i have given it up. He too has given it up.He refuses to even let me go to the dz. I have alot of friends there and I have no idea when i will see them besides at the dz. What do i do coz the dz is my home, my family... the pain from my ankle injury is enough to remind me not to fly into the hanger...


skydiverbry  (D License)

Jul 23, 2005, 11:32 PM
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Re: [tree_squirrel] Flew into the hanger...ouch [In reply to] Can't Post

I got hurt awhile back pretty bad won't go into detail but the Doc said I could never jump again. Well i have without too much trouble just went alot more conservative on canopy and landings. What make ya say u can't or don't want to dive aggain? PM if ya want and I can give details and suggestion if ya want. Thats if you really do want to jump again I think ya may be able BLUE SKIES BRYAN


Trae  (Student)

Jul 24, 2005, 2:28 AM
Post #3 of 25 (2838 views)
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Re: [tree_squirrel] Flew into the hanger...ouch [In reply to] Can't Post

You could become the proud owner of a nice slow canopy with an excellent flare. .... and pick your days.Sly


JohnRich  (D License)

Jul 24, 2005, 11:46 AM
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Re: [Trae] Flew into the hanger...ouch [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
You could become the proud owner of a nice slow canopy with an excellent flare. .... and pick your days.Sly

And pick a new fiancee that doesn't put limitations on your life...


pope  (D 19947)

Jul 25, 2005, 10:54 AM
Post #5 of 25 (2781 views)
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Re: [tree_squirrel] Flew into the hanger...ouch [In reply to] Can't Post

sorry to hear about your injuries. Yes, it certainly is disabling.

Out of curiosity, what did you mean by:
Quote:
(and was supposed to have been helped land)

I'm of the belief that short of getting hit by a bolt of lightning in freefall, injuries one sustains while parachuting are their own fault. Everyone who consciously makes the choice to jump from an airplane or exit an object needs to take responsibility for their action, IMHO.

Quote:
i still will not be allowed to skydive. I have been told to leave my skydiving days behind me.
I think most people that have been in a similar situation as yours will tell you that generally speaking, DOCTORS DO NOT [TRY TO] UNDERSTAND SKYDIVING. In many cases, it's about your attitude. Keep positive, go hard at physical therapy, and commit yourself to the fact that you'll be skydiving again.

Also accept that when you come back you need to be open to changing your gear configurations (ie: bigger main, reserve, protective gear etc.)

Oh--and seriously--anyone who tells you where you can and can't go, DZ or not, needs to be cut away! Not a strong foundation for a healthy relationship IMO.

good luck,
pope


(This post was edited by pope on Jul 25, 2005, 10:56 AM)


StevePhelps  (D 26782)

Jul 26, 2005, 2:06 PM
Post #6 of 25 (2735 views)
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Re: [tree_squirrel] Flew into the hanger...ouch [In reply to] Can't Post

A HP canopy at 37 skydives???Crazy

Why the rush? Was it worth it?


(This post was edited by StevePhelps on Jul 26, 2005, 2:06 PM)


pBASEtobe

Jul 26, 2005, 4:46 PM
Post #7 of 25 (2725 views)
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Re: [tree_squirrel] Flew into the hanger...ouch [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
...i still will not be allowed to skydive.

WHAT!?! By who? You can do what you want, that is if you really do still want to do it.

There are many people out there jumping with all kinds of metal in them. I would suggest jumping a big canopy (bigger than you were jumping before the HP one) for that time you screw up a landing again. That way it won't be too bad.


peregrinerose  (D 28983)

Jul 27, 2005, 1:58 PM
Post #8 of 25 (2701 views)
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Re: [tree_squirrel] Flew into the hanger...ouch [In reply to] Can't Post

Am I reading this right, an HP canopy as a student jumping, not even a license yet??

I hope that you heal quickly, and if you do get back in the air, make wiser choices in the future. It sounds as though you were very lucky.

As a B licensee with only 80 jumps, there is no way on earth you could get me out of a plane with a canopy I wasn't ready for and one that I needed 'help' to land safely.

Jen


Odin  (A 10613)

Jul 27, 2005, 4:47 PM
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Re: [skydiverbry] Flew into the hanger...ouch [In reply to] Can't Post

If you are determined, you can do it. My Kung-fu teacher always said: that'll cost you a hundred pushups. NOW! There is no such thing as "I can't do that. The correct answer is "I haven't figured out how to do that yet Sifu (followed by a deep bow). We have one guy at a DZ close to me who was severely injured back in about 1991 when he got wrapped and knocked unconscious training for 4-ways for Nationals. He suffered some pretty severe brain damage, but got back in a plane to jump again. I just saw him jump about three weeks ago. Large, soft, fluffy easy-opening canopy AND a new boyfriend and you should be okay. Trust the senior coaches at your DZ and don't jump before they want you to. Do your first few jumps with a radio.


tree_squirrel  (Student)

Jul 27, 2005, 11:48 PM
Post #10 of 25 (2677 views)
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Re: [JohnRich] Flew into the hanger...ouch [In reply to] Can't Post

HI All

I understand that there has been some confusion. Firstly about my licence. I was supposed to have just finished the requirements for an A licence and then PASA (parachute association of South Africa) decided to change the requirements after ISP. So i was downgrading before i started my ISP. We were pissed!

In the sentence ( I was supposed to have been helped in) I meant that due to the change of canopy and the fact that it wasn't as docile i requested a batsman to help with gaging height and forward speed, to prevent broken body bits. Only he wasn't there and i had to set up and i had lost too much altitude. I have had many successful landing before.

As for getting a new fiance, i think that was mean of you to say. He used to pay for me to jump, and he used to jump himself. He dooesn't feel like its fair for him to be jumping and me not. He is trying to be sweet and not make me jealous.

Please if you are against the lack of licence after finishing a freefall progression, don't hesitate to tell PASA what you really think about them. We think they are just trying to make more money out of us.

Anyways. Have a nice day. My legs are feeling better and i might do it again.


tree_squirrel  (Student)

Jul 27, 2005, 11:51 PM
Post #11 of 25 (2676 views)
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Re: [StevePhelps] Flew into the hanger...ouch [In reply to] Can't Post

I switched to a Code 210. Really guys!

Its just less docile!


pope  (D 19947)

Jul 28, 2005, 8:53 AM
Post #12 of 25 (2663 views)
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Re: [tree_squirrel] Flew into the hanger...ouch [In reply to] Can't Post

I think people were mislead by you saying "HP canopy" I know I was.

If you are flying or downsizing to any HP wing, you should not need any assistance in the *actual* landing of the canopy--if you do, IMHO, you're not ready to downsize.
good luck!
pope


tree_squirrel  (Student)

Jul 29, 2005, 1:00 AM
Post #13 of 25 (2635 views)
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Re: [pope] Flew into the hanger...ouch [In reply to] Can't Post

I needed to convert to a hand deployed boc before i continued onto my ISP. It wasn't such a big jump since my previous parachute was a 230. I was just being extra careful (with a tiny tinee li'l bit of help i would flare at the right time) and if i hadn't been looking for the dude on the ground i most probably would have been fine. There were other factors involved like the wind (cross wind) which blew me into the hanger. None the less, I got off lightly, i only broke my leg and ankle on the one side and tore a ligament on the other, not a scratch. otherwise. I most probably will jump again, not too soon tho. I will walk again. So for all those out there who are doing the sport as a disabled person, i sincerely salute you. Happy Landings and Blue Skies!

:)


pope  (D 19947)

Jul 29, 2005, 8:04 AM
Post #14 of 25 (2630 views)
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Re: [tree_squirrel] Flew into the hanger...ouch [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
the wind (cross wind) which blew me into the hanger.

Cross wind or not, the wind did not 'blow' you into the hangar, you failed to fly yourself to a safe landing.
word of advice from someone who has learned the hard way: Take TOTAL resposibility for it and the lessons you learn will be much more valuable.

heal soon!
pope


tree_squirrel  (Student)

Jul 31, 2005, 11:55 PM
Post #15 of 25 (2603 views)
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Re: [pope] Flew into the hanger...ouch [In reply to] Can't Post

 
"Cross wind or not, the wind did not 'blow' you into the hangar, you failed to fly yourself to a safe landing. " Pope.


Cross wind or not. I only said it was a factor. At the end the safest option was to fly into the hanger. If i had yanked my toggle and finished my turn i would have been hurt worse ( tar and other obstacles
). It was my decision after having made bad decisions to rather not finish my turn which would have made my body horizontal to the earth and then promptly fall. That would have resulted in worse injuries.

Thanks for the advice and i am now feeling my mistakes.


ladyskydiver

Aug 1, 2005, 12:01 AM
Post #16 of 25 (2601 views)
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Re: [tree_squirrel] Flew into the hanger...ouch [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Cross wind or not. I only said it was a factor. At the end the safest option was to fly into the hanger. If i had yanked my toggle and finished my turn i would have been hurt worse ( tar and other obstacles
). It was my decision after having made bad decisions to rather not finish my turn which would have made my body horizontal to the earth and then promptly fall. That would have resulted in worse injuries.

Thanks for the advice and i am now feeling my mistakes.

Do you know how to make flat turns? Burying a toggle isn't the only method of turning. If you do not know how to make a flat turn, learn.


tree_squirrel  (Student)

Aug 1, 2005, 12:18 AM
Post #17 of 25 (2599 views)
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Re: [ladyskydiver] Flew into the hanger...ouch [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you for the discussion.

I had just finished my freefall progression. I have got the point. If I do go back to jumping once my legs heal and after my wedding, then i will dump high, set up high, not ask for bats, learn more about canopy control, keep jumping a 230 for the rest of my life, and make sure that the hanger doesn't jump in front of me. Skydiving is a dangerous sport. Yes you can irradicate many of the problems by checking your equipment and keeping alti aware but sometimes these things happen. I had only just gone onto the 210, i had never flewn a hand deployed parachute ( yes i know it's similar) I tested my stall point high up in the air. I dont know too much about riser turns ect... I was in the process of learning. Most of you have been quite cruel about this whole thing. At least i didn't add to the statistics of fatalities. I realise that I have no place in the disabled forum but i felt disabled and yes it was my own mistake! I am all for people skydiving and I realise I am a bad advert for it at the moment. But it will not be forever. Please forgive me for being a bad advert for six weeks.


kelel01  (A License)

Aug 1, 2005, 8:01 AM
Post #18 of 25 (2588 views)
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Re: [tree_squirrel] Flew into the hanger...ouch [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think anyone's being cruel, just FYI. They just want you to understand your mistakes, so WHEN you come back Wink, you'll be better equipped to handle yourself in less-than-ideal situations. Also, I think "high performance canopy" means something different in the U.S. than what you meant. I don't know what a "Code" is, but a 210 sq. ft. canopy isn't something I would consider "high performance", unless you weigh 260 out the door.

You'll learn as time goes on that you can't say the cross wind blew you into the hangar . . . technically, you flew yourself into it, or you let the canopy fly you into it. You have to remain in control of where your canopy goes. Also, a flat or braked turn possibly could have saved you, but obviously I wasn't there to judge the situation. When you go back, make sure you get training on braked/flat turns, and practice them up high. They can be life (and injury) - saving tools.

We all used the "the wind blew me" wherever excuse . . . but with more experience and a better understanding, you'll know that simply wasn't true. It's definitely a difficult concept to grasp. Smile

Good luck in the future! Smile


mr2mk1g  (C 103449)

Aug 2, 2005, 4:25 AM
Post #19 of 25 (2566 views)
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Re: [tree_squirrel] Flew into the hanger...ouch [In reply to] Can't Post

You are making excuses for your errors and this is very concerning. Making them to us really doesn't matter much in the scheme of things; what really worries me is that you are making them to yourself.

Please accept responsibility for the screw up, at least privately.

It wasn't the fact that the bat-man was not there. It wasn't the hanger moving or the crosswind blowing you anywhere. It wasn't because you were on a hand deployed PC. Whilst your downsizing could be a contributing factor it in itself did not cause the accident. Flying into a hanger isn't something that "just happens" ľ it only happens if you the pilot screws up big time.

The simple fact is you injured yourself because you made mistakes. That's cool; we all make mistakes in life. The key is to accept reasonability for those mistakes and learn from them.

Please don't take this as me ragging on you, I really am not ľ I'm trying to help. But until you accept that as a skydiver you alone are responsible for yourself and any injuries you sustain are your fault... your doctor's right. You're not ready to come back.

Don't excuse yourself; learn, change and next time you won't make that mistake. Next time with any luck you'll be flying safely to the ground to the arms of your current fiancÚ.


Trae  (Student)

Aug 5, 2005, 7:31 PM
Post #20 of 25 (2518 views)
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Re: [tree_squirrel] Flew into the hanger...ouch [In reply to] Can't Post

re...'Most of you have been quite cruel about this whole thing.'

Most of us forget how sensitive relative beginners can be. It sounds like you may have been pushed along a little fast .

Skydiving is so different and exciting when just starting that it takes a real effort to hold yourself back to a reasonable learning curve. Unfortunately you've learnt the hard way what can happen when it all gets a bit too fast.
Canopy control incidents are very common due to the relatively high speed of modern canopies.

20 years ago most ram air canopies had less performance than modern 'student' canopies.

There is some degree of 'duty of care' from your instructors. As you say it wasn't all your fault if your instructors put you on a canopy beyond your ability & experience level.

Most of us longer term skydivers have had a few hard knocks and are probably less sensitive as a result.

You sound like you really love the sport and hopefully with considerate guidance you'll end up doing what you want to do.


freeflynick  (D 24960)

Sep 15, 2005, 2:54 AM
Post #21 of 25 (2320 views)
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Re: [tree_squirrel] Flew into the hanger...ouch [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
At the end the safest option was to fly into the hanger.
This reminds me of a guy on our DZ who said "I HAD to fly into the tree to miss the powerlines"!!!Crazy

And you talked about the crosswind - it is only a crosswind if you aren't facing into it, which you should have been doing from at least 300ft as you set up to land.

I'm afraid you have to accept the "tough love" approach when you post this kind of incident on DZ.com - its not that we don't care, its becuase we DO care. We dont want you hurting yourself or anyone else in the future. We want to get the point across that this was an elementry mistake - always make sure you will land in a safe area, prefereably into wind. Dont allow yourself to get sucked down by focusing on other issues (lack of batman) until you are left with on other options. This shows a lack of awareness, and skydivers die and kill others as a result of a lack of aweness.
I have only done about 20 jumps in the last 2 years due to a lack of awareness of my own, and will have a permenant limp and painful future because of it! Wink

DZ.commers can sound like a pack of bastards, but we honestly have your best interests at heart. You were injured on what was basically an uneventful skydive - there was no real extra stress or emergency situation - yes, it was a new canopy and new opening procedure, but that isn't too much in the scheme of things. We want you to ask yourself
HONESTLY how you think you would handle yourself in a high-stress skydiving situation - a high speed mal, another canopy coming at you fast out of the blue, etc. etc. If you can HONESTLY say that you think you could keep a level enough head to get it sorted, Good Luck in your future jump career - I hope you never have to face those situations. But if you find that you have serious doubts (and admitting to ourselves that we aren't as capable as we want to be is VERY tough) then maybe your fiancee is doing you a favour by stopping you both from jumping.

I think my fiancee did me a very big favour (possibly saving my life!) after my BASE injury by giving me the option of doing another BASE jump or keeping her!! I know I made the right choice, and I hope you do.

Until then, FOLLOW THE DOCTORS ADVICE! Dont try getting on your feet before he says, and I wish you all the best in your recovery and your future (see - WE CARE!!!Wink)

Cheers.

Nick


70sdiver  (Student)

Nov 9, 2005, 9:28 PM
Post #22 of 25 (2104 views)
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Re: [tree_squirrel] Flew into the hanger...ouch [In reply to] Can't Post

well I'm supposed to be disabled acorrding to my docs lol ,Screw them.I was in a rollover and broke my c-4 vertabra in 12 pieces they rebuilt it from my hip bone.This sept I made a hop and pop at 5 grand.Ive made 6 jumps since sept.I still have to sleep in a chair at night and after jumping my neck is sore for a few days but I hope it will get better as time goes if not what the hell lol.If You really want to jump again you can,get a big docile canopy and land very conservitive thats what I'm doing .Almost all docs will try and ground ya lol.If nothin else you could always be a packer.Hope you heal soon


Odin  (A 10613)

Nov 13, 2005, 12:04 PM
Post #23 of 25 (2075 views)
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Re: [70sdiver] Flew into the hanger...ouch [In reply to] Can't Post

You guys need my OrthopŠdic Surgeon. He hasn't got a clue about sky-diving and its risks. (He's a tennis player.) While assessing the hamstring tear I got when I dislocated my shoulder, he told me I should be trying to do all the things I normally do to see what doesn't work properly. I asked: Does that include skydiving? His reply-if that's what you normally do, you should try it! Smile I like his attitude, but still think I'll wait 'til the spring and give it a good 6 months.


BIGUN  (D 23385)

Dec 11, 2005, 5:50 AM
Post #24 of 25 (1924 views)
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Re: [tree_squirrel] Flew into the hanger...ouch [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
What do i do coz the dz is my home, my family...

Does your "family" know where you live and come visit you or do you just have to go to their place? See how many of them show up over the next six weeks without you inviting them.


Odin  (A 10613)

Dec 13, 2005, 6:07 PM
Post #25 of 25 (1878 views)
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Re: [BIGUN] Flew into the hanger...ouch [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
What do i do coz the dz is my home, my family...

Does your "family" know where you live and come visit you or do you just have to go to their place? See how many of them show up over the next six weeks without you inviting them.

Mine does! They're the ones who keep telling me to wait and won't let me on the manifest. Mad Wink



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