Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
"I need my space..."

 


peek  (D 8884)

Jul 20, 2005, 9:51 AM
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"I need my space..." Can't Post

(Yes, this really is the correct forum.)

What I am refering to is the space separating you from other skydivers at various time during a skydive, including under canopy.

I have been wondering how much space people are wanting in order to feel comfortable. I seem to be comfortable with much less space than a lot of people that I have heard comment, and I am wondering exactly how much.

If you could respond in actual distance in feet or meters it would be nice. And if you want to give 2 figures, say, one for someone you don't know, and one for someone you know and trust.

How much to feel comfportable with:

1. Someone from another group opening near you.

2. Someone flying their canopy by you (with known visual contact between both of you).

3. Someone landing right after you (fast swoop).

4. Someone landing right after you (low wing loading or accuracy canopy).


Brains  (D License)

Jul 20, 2005, 10:53 AM
Post #2 of 19 (1919 views)
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Re: [peek] "I need my space..." [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
How much to feel comfportable with:

My answers are for Someone i know and trust/ someone else.Laugh

Quote:
1. Someone from another group opening near you.

200 feet/200 feet

Quote:
2. Someone flying their canopy by you (with known visual contact between both of you).
no minimum/100 feet

Quote:
3. Someone landing right after you (fast swoop).
2-3 feet/20 feet or so.

Quote:
4. Someone landing right after you (low wing loading or accuracy canopy).

2-3 feet/ 5 or so i guess.


BIGUN  (D 23385)

Jul 20, 2005, 11:37 AM
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Re: [peek] "I need my space..." [In reply to] Can't Post

1. Someone from another group opening near you.

>500'

2. Someone flying their canopy by you (with known visual contact between both of you).

If you're within reach of my hookknife, you're too close and its not going to go well for you.

3. Someone landing right after you (fast swoop).

If I'm in the swoop area, I am in the wrong. If they are in the regular landing area - see response to number 2

4. Someone landing right after you (low wing loading or accuracy canopy).

As soon as I land, I look out for them and am cool with 20'.

Wink


(This post was edited by BIGUN on Jul 20, 2005, 11:40 AM)


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jul 20, 2005, 12:07 PM
Post #4 of 19 (1838 views)
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Re: [peek] "I need my space..." [In reply to] Can't Post

No hard-and-fast answers to any of these, but:

>1. Someone from another group opening near you.

50 feet I'd yell at him, 100 feet I'd mention it to someone in their group, 200 feet I wouldn't much care.

>2. Someone flying their canopy by you (with known visual contact
>between both of you).

1 foot if I know them and their canopy skills, 20 feet if I know them and they seem to be able to control their canopy, 50 feet if they are some guy I don't know.

>3. Someone landing right after you (fast swoop).

If they slap my hand as they go by and I know them, no problem. As long as we both have eye contact I don't really care how close they come as long as they avoid me.


speedy

Jul 20, 2005, 12:36 PM
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Re: [peek] "I need my space..." [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok some other answers :-

Last weekend I watched 2 people exit almost together from a C182 and pull within a few seconds. They deployed about 20 ft apart. Of course it was planned that way and everyone was happy.

For myself after a freefall jump I would like 300ft between me and any unknowns deploying. see http://www.iit.edu/...d/skydive/#resources for the reasons why.


Cloudi  (C 35301)

Jul 20, 2005, 9:06 PM
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Re: [BIGUN] "I need my space..." [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm with BIGUN. Anything that I see coming, I'm pretty cool with. It's the nasty little surprises I have a problem with. "Where the f*ck did he come from?! Nice count, jackass!" I don't have a hook knife, but I'll find a way to mess a mutha up! Laugh Have you ever seen a group that went out before you, tracking towards you and below? Not pretty! It's about paying attention to the line of flight and a decent count, IMO. Wink


grega  (D 100020)

Jul 21, 2005, 12:24 AM
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Re: [peek] "I need my space..." [In reply to] Can't Post

well these numbers change with the experience i have (with the number of jumps i have)

500 jumps ago i was comfortable if the other group opening was at least 500m away, now it can be 100m or less and i don't have a problem.

the more you're in control (of avoiding accidents) the closer the distance can be in every of this situations you numbered... well at least for me.


Liemberg  (Student)

Jul 21, 2005, 2:34 AM
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Re: [peek] "I need my space..." [In reply to] Can't Post

"I don't want you anywhere NEAR me!!!" Mad

"You got that?" Mad


Tongue


Anyway, it all seems to be 'situational' - with the above attitude succesful Canopy Formation seems out of the question but I have been under a twist and saw a guy "clear his ears, polish his goggles and stow his slider" as he soared less than 2 meters over the top of my canopy from opposite direction.
A 2 engine Fokker F27 that has just dropped 35+ skydivers also seems mighty big and fast if it passes under you @ less than 30 meters... Crazy


peregrinerose  (D 28983)

Jul 21, 2005, 7:09 AM
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Re: [peek] "I need my space..." [In reply to] Can't Post

The only situation I've been in so far was another student, we both had 8 or 9 jumps at the time, and he was the kind of guy itching to start swooping so didn't trust him worth shit. He stayed on my tail and no matter what I did to get away, he kept following me. I could see his facial expressions and that was way too fucking close for my comfort.

Though I agree with another post, if both pilots are aware of the other, the situation is far safer than one or both pilots not seeing the other.

Though with a whopping 80 jumps, it doesn't really matter what I think Tongue


dragon2  (D 101989)

Jul 21, 2005, 7:39 AM
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Re: [peek] "I need my space..." [In reply to] Can't Post

It all depends on who it is and if we have arranged anything beforehand.

As I do a lot of ground video I'm used to people swooping quite close, sometimes to the point of feeling the wind from the lines in my hair. If I don't know you or don't trust your skills, DON'T DO THAT. But with a few people, sure.

I did some crew so I'm comfortable flying close to others that also know a bit of crew. Some of them used to be in the national crew team... After a wingsuit jump we usually get together under canopy again to bump endcells or geek the camera (usually, me).

We even did some crew jumps with 3 vengeance's although that's not altogether very smart although it sure was a lot of fun Laugh and the one instructor that we have that also jumps a vengeance didn't want to come and play, imagine that Sly

With wingsuiting, deploying close to each other is not that big a deal, providing you stay next to each other and not behind.

People from other groups I don't want to see opening up close though! Shocked

So, comfy distance under canopy, depending on person, zero feet. Comfy distance when landing, also depending on person, just don't hit me or my gear. Other groups, open in your own space!


peek  (D 8884)

Jul 21, 2005, 8:04 AM
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Re: [peregrinerose] "I need my space..." [In reply to] Can't Post

Jen: Though with a whopping 80 jumps, it doesn't really matter what I think.

Gary: Well of course it does! I made this post hoping for many responses from jumpers with experience like yours. It just happens that the first few responses were from people with a lot of experience.

Folks: I ask this question of everyone. Please don't let another person's response keep you from responding or make you think there is anything wrong with your distances.


(This post was edited by peek on Jul 21, 2005, 8:05 AM)


kallend  (D 23151)

Jul 21, 2005, 8:54 AM
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Re: [peek] "I need my space..." [In reply to] Can't Post

 
The one that bothers me most is separation from someone from another group at deployment altitude. Either or both of us may be off heading, or have line twists, or not yet have full control of our canopies for whatever reason. Lots of people spend the first few seconds messing with their slider or booties or goggles instead of paying attention to their flying. We may not be aware of the other person until too late to do much about it. So I go for 300ft on that one.

The other one that really bothers me is the person who swoops within a couple of feet of me when I'm still gathering up my stuff after landing. There are some people I would trust to do that, but generally those are not the people who actually do it.


Premier Remster  (C License)

Jul 21, 2005, 10:25 AM
Post #13 of 19 (1462 views)
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Re: [kallend] "I need my space..." [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
The one that bothers me most is separation from someone from another group at deployment altitude. Either or both of us may be off heading, or have line twists, or not yet have full control of our canopies for whatever reason.

Add to that the fact that you dont expect them to be close.


bob.dino  (E 2185)

Jul 21, 2005, 4:32 PM
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Re: [peek] "I need my space..." [In reply to] Can't Post

Another group - best part of 100m and I'll be comfortable. Under 50m and we'll be having a friendly little chat about the importance of exit separation and knowing when you're tracking up/down the flightline.

Under canopy: if I know them, no minimum. If I don't, 10-15m and I'm happy.

Landing: if I know them, no minimum. If I don't, 5m or so would be nice.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Jul 22, 2005, 4:41 AM
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Re: [peregrinerose] "I need my space..." [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The only situation I've been in so far was another student, we both had 8 or 9 jumps at the time, and he was the kind of guy itching to start swooping so didn't trust him worth shit. He stayed on my tail and no matter what I did to get away, he kept following me. I could see his facial expressions and that was way too fucking close for my comfort.

Sounds like an old-time Safety Meeting at the end of the runway is in order....Mad


tso-d_chris

Jul 22, 2005, 8:27 AM
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Re: [popsjumper] "I need my space..." [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Sounds like an old-time Safety Meeting at the end of the runway is in order....

I'm guessing that "Safety Meeting" means different things at different DZs. Tongue


peregrinerose  (D 28983)

Jul 27, 2005, 9:53 AM
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Re: [tso-d_chris] "I need my space..." [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I'm guessing that "Safety Meeting" means different things at different DZs.

I'm fairly sure he was spoken to, haven't seen him back in at least 6 months, not long after the canopy thing.


Fast  (D 28237)

Jul 27, 2005, 1:38 PM
Post #18 of 19 (1165 views)
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Re: [peregrinerose] "I need my space..." [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
I'm guessing that "Safety Meeting" means different things at different DZs.

I'm fairly sure he was spoken to, haven't seen him back in at least 6 months, not long after the canopy thing.

lol


davadikian

Jul 28, 2005, 12:09 AM
Post #19 of 19 (1100 views)
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Re: [bob.dino] "I need my space..." [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Under 50m and we'll be having a friendly little chat about the importance of exit separation and knowing when you're tracking up/down the flightline.

Assuming it was them that made the mistake and not you...Wink



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