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Will a wind tunnel help me pass AFF Level 4?

 

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Mockingbird  (A 49146)

Jul 4, 2005, 12:39 AM
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Will a wind tunnel help me pass AFF Level 4? Can't Post

I've tried Level 4 FIVE times now. I keep turning in circles due to a lack of symmetry... which is due to being tensed up (or so the theory goes... I don't know any more. All I know is that I'm spinning and I can't stop it, nor can I keep from going into a turn in the first place.)

I decided after today's failure to pass Level 4 that I will not return to the DZ until I've been to a wind tunnel, because what little money I have (I'm sure most of us are broke when we're going through training, except for the really self-disciplined ones who actually saved up for training ahead of time) is being wasted and I'm not learning or progressing. (At least my canopy skills are being honed.)

I don't know whether to go to Orlando or Perris. Their fee structures confuse me because of all the variables in both. I don't even know what to ask for. Does every segment of tunnel time include instruction? Is "coaching" the same as "instruction"?

I'm so frustrated by not making progress. As I told my instructor today, I've never wanted to succeed at anything so badly in my whole life... and I turned 51 yesterday.

Is there a particular type of training that I, as an AFF student, should ask for when I get in touch with these tunnels? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks! Blush


btucker  (E 1974)

Jul 4, 2005, 6:34 AM
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Re: [Mockingbird] Will a wind tunnel help me pass AFF Level 4? [In reply to] Can't Post

I spun up in AFF4 and ended up doing it three times. It will eventually click and youll wonder what all the fuss was about.

I think relaxing is the key, but that is easy to type and hard to do. Aside from the fear of dying, you know have the fear of spinning up to contend with! Tunnel time will increase your confidence and free fall ablilites.

I think some tunnel time with the right instructor would most definitely help, maybe you can get an instructor that you could do tunnel and real jumps with. No doubt either tunnel could tee you up with someone, or a local will post a recommendation. All things equal (ie where you live) I'd choose Perris because you can also jump onsite.

I really admire your commitment, I think you'll make a great skydiver and be tunneling with the best of them in no time at all.

Isn't stage5 & 6 turns, you already got 'em nailed!

Blue Skies, Benno


ltdiver  (D 20506)

Jul 4, 2005, 7:05 AM
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Re: [Mockingbird] Will a wind tunnel help me pass AFF Level 4? [In reply to] Can't Post

First off I'd contact the Perris school and let them know what you're up against. They offer tunnel training with their AFF staff and can get you back into the air on Level 4 without a hitch after that.

Be sure to bring your video footage of your previous jumps with you. It's very valuable when descerning what's going on, and will save you alot of time with future training.

Here's Perris' web page: http://www.skydiveperris.com/

Moley and Stewart are the chief instructors. They'll hook you up and get you through to the next round.... Smile

ltdiver


Paige

Jul 4, 2005, 8:14 AM
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Re: [Mockingbird] Will a wind tunnel help me pass AFF Level 4? [In reply to] Can't Post

If you go in with an open mind, willingness to learn, listen, and try new things, you will definately improve your flying with the right coach.

Call the closest tunnel to you and find out how they can help get you fixed up Smile

Tell them your problems, issues, and what you want to improve along with your goal of passing AFF.


(This post was edited by Paige on Jul 4, 2005, 8:15 AM)


Hackb431  (A 47470)

Jul 4, 2005, 8:39 AM
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Re: [Mockingbird] Will a wind tunnel help me pass AFF Level 4? [In reply to] Can't Post

Speaking from very recent experience.....I did some time with Sally Hathaway in the Orlando tunnel right before my lvl 6 AFF. It helped tremendoulsy I think mostly in part due to confidence building which in turn made me relax on the dive. Check out Tunnelcoach.com for more info. Good luck and keep at it. It only gets better!


Paige

Jul 4, 2005, 9:05 AM
Post #6 of 115 (4875 views)
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Re: [Hackb431] Will a wind tunnel help me pass AFF Level 4? [In reply to] Can't Post

I think she's out in Texas Wink

Oh, and we're much cheaper than Tunnelcoach.comLaughTongueWink


Mockingbird  (A 49146)

Jul 4, 2005, 11:13 AM
Post #7 of 115 (4863 views)
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Re: [btucker] Will a wind tunnel help me pass AFF Level 4? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I spun up in AFF4 and ended up doing it three times. It will eventually click and youll wonder what all the fuss was about.

I think relaxing is the key, but that is easy to type and hard to do. Aside from the fear of dying, you know have the fear of spinning up to contend with! Tunnel time will increase your confidence and free fall ablilites.

I think some tunnel time with the right instructor would most definitely help, maybe you can get an instructor that you could do tunnel and real jumps with. No doubt either tunnel could tee you up with someone, or a local will post a recommendation. All things equal (ie where you live) I'd choose Perris because you can also jump onsite.

I really admire your commitment, I think you'll make a great skydiver and be tunneling with the best of them in no time at all.

Isn't stage5 & 6 turns, you already got 'em nailed!

Blue Skies, Benno

Thank you, Benno! You are right about relaxing being difficult--- it seems like until I've actually relaxed, I won't know how. Does that make sense? My instructor says that I am making the skydive too mental (I'm thinking too much) and I need to relax and FEEL the freefall. That is Greek to me. That's why I know I need some concentrated time in the air (or tunnel) so that I can have a longer chance to get relaxed and a longer time to get used to how it feels to be relaxed. If I got the hang of it in the tunnel, would Perris actually let me jump for real to see if I can carry it over into the real situation (in the sky)? I will write both places and tell them my story--- but, in the case of Perris, should I write their AFF people rather than the tunnel personnel? (This world is very new to me.)

Thanks to everyone for your comments and suggestions. I want to succeed at this--- I can't believe I'm considering going to these lengths to do so. I'm not what you'd call an extravagant person!


Mockingbird  (A 49146)

Jul 4, 2005, 11:29 AM
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Re: [ltdiver] Will a wind tunnel help me pass AFF Level 4? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Moley and Stewart are the chief instructors. They'll hook you up and get you through to the next round....

I can't find their names anywhere on the Perris website. Where whould I email them?


HeatherB  (B License)

Jul 4, 2005, 2:37 PM
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Re: [Paige] Will a wind tunnel help me pass AFF Level 4? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Oh, and we're much cheaper than Tunnelcoach.com

I know you had a winky face after that and everything, but I just want to mention that Sally is a fantastic coach and a world champ, as well as an AFF instructor. And she doesn't charge much when compared to other coaches. Her fee is very reasonable.

I haven't flown with her in a while but it's always a huge learning experience. She makes it fun too. Lots of different drills and she'll push you outside your comfort zone. I'd recommend her to anyone, whether they're AFF students or have thousands of jumps.


marcandalysse  (C License)

Jul 4, 2005, 3:06 PM
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Re: [Paige] Will a wind tunnel help me pass AFF Level 4? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Oh, and we're much cheaper than Tunnelcoach.com

Yes that may be so, but you are not a world champion several times over and she has at least ten times more hours coaching in the tunnel than you do, plus thousands of skydives doing RW, AFF training and coaching. Everything she teaches in the tunnel is based on that vast experience.

Actually she is in Atlanta training with her team for another world championship.
marc


(This post was edited by marcandalysse on Jul 4, 2005, 4:02 PM)


bob.dino  (E 2185)

Jul 4, 2005, 4:10 PM
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Re: [Mockingbird] Will a wind tunnel help me pass AFF Level 4? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd try the AFF people first. If it's the tunnel people you should be talking to, they can always transfer your call Tongue.

Oh, and Benno (btucker) is now on an 8-way team training to win the Aussie Nationals. Many many skydivers don't pass their AFF levels the first time. I repeated level 5 twice.

In my short skydiving career, I've found that learning a new skill can be incredibly frustrating, but once you get it you're left wondering what all the fuss was about. So don't stress too much, enjoy the jumps, and you'll progress at your own rate Smile.


VanillaSkyGirl

Jul 4, 2005, 4:17 PM
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Re: [HeatherB] Will a wind tunnel help me pass AFF Level 4? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Oh, and we're much cheaper than Tunnelcoach.com

I know you had a winky face after that and everything, but I just want to mention that Sally is a fantastic coach and a world champ, as well as an AFF instructor.

Sorry for the hijack, but thank you for writing about Sally, Heather. She is EXATLY the kind of woman that the Pink Mafia Tunnel Sisters should be turning the spotlight on. I have pushed hard for our organization to focus on women whose flying and attitude that we all admire. Smile I have been interviewing ladies that we admire for written segments on our website, as well as researching tunnel history and amazing female flyers/tunnel coaches. I would love more contact information for Sally sent via PM, perhaps? Thank you. Smile


Nicnol  (A License)

Jul 4, 2005, 4:23 PM
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Re: [marcandalysse] Will a wind tunnel help me pass AFF Level 4? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Yes that may be so, but you are not a world champion several times over and she has at least ten times more hours coaching in the tunnel than you do,

Geeez relax already Laugh

You also would not ask Rembrandt to show you how to use a paint roller. I think most coaches would be good for helping with AFF basics - and you ought to choose the right value tuition.Tongue


Mockingbird  (A 49146)

Jul 4, 2005, 7:29 PM
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Re: [bob.dino] Will a wind tunnel help me pass AFF Level 4? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Oh, and Benno (btucker) is now on an 8-way team training to win the Aussie Nationals. Many many skydivers don't pass their AFF levels the first time. I repeated level 5 twice.

In my short skydiving career, I've found that learning a new skill can be incredibly frustrating, but once you get it you're left wondering what all the fuss was about. So don't stress too much, enjoy the jumps, and you'll progress at your own rate Smile.

Thanks for the note about Benno--- he must be one of those [refreshingly] modest types! But what you say is encouraging.

I just know I can get this; I just need some concentrated time rather than 50 seconds per week! My head is thicker than it used to be! Unsure

Thanks, Bob.


ltdiver  (D 20506)

Jul 4, 2005, 10:57 PM
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Re: [Mockingbird] Will a wind tunnel help me pass AFF Level 4? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Moley and Stewart are the chief instructors. They'll hook you up and get you through to the next round....

I can't find their names anywhere on the Perris website. Where whould I email them?

First start with a toll free call HERE. You'll be able to talk with the school, and if you ask for either Moley or Stewart they'd be able to answer your questions on how to go about transferring your knowledge into the system...and getting you that coached tunnel time.

IMHO, I'd go with an AFFI, who is trained in the tunnel, too, to find exactly what you're looking for. At Perris we have many such qualified instructors.

Look forward to meeting you when you come visit us. Smile

ltdiver


Paige

Jul 5, 2005, 6:17 AM
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Re: [marcandalysse] Will a wind tunnel help me pass AFF Level 4? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
Oh, and we're much cheaper than Tunnelcoach.com

Yes that may be so, but you are not a world champion several times over and she has at least ten times more hours coaching in the tunnel than you do, plus thousands of skydives doing RW, AFF training and coaching. Everything she teaches in the tunnel is based on that vast experience.

Actually she is in Atlanta training with her team for another world championship.
marc

Relax people it's all in good fun. You are taking things way to seriously. I know him, we've been to the tunnel together. IT WAS A JOKE.

I've been in the tunnel with Sally and she's great. I never said she wasn't.


(This post was edited by Paige on Jul 5, 2005, 6:19 AM)


Paige

Jul 5, 2005, 6:18 AM
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Re: [HeatherB] Will a wind tunnel help me pass AFF Level 4? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Oh, and we're much cheaper than Tunnelcoach.com

I know you had a winky face after that and everything, but I just want to mention that Sally is a fantastic coach and a world champ, as well as an AFF instructor. And she doesn't charge much when compared to other coaches. Her fee is very reasonable.

Sally is fantastic!!!!!!!!

I just wrote in another post as to the nature of my comments, I knew him and have been at the tunnel with him. It's a joke, really all in good fun.


Ron

Jul 5, 2005, 6:37 AM
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Re: [Mockingbird] Will a wind tunnel help me pass AFF Level 4? [In reply to] Can't Post

It will not matter if you use an AFF "I" or a tunnel rat to help fix your issue.

Level 4 is one of the hardest levels for people to pass......

I know you are sick of hearing this....Relax. Its not normal to be falling towards a planet at 120 MPH.

As for Paige...Nice person really trying hard to promote the tunnel.

As for Sally...One of my best friends, former teammate, and my rigger.

As good as both of these folks are....You will be served by either, or just by one of the tunnel rats. Never forget the rats train people to fly with NO experience.

Tunnelcoach.com is a good program, but I am sure there are tons of other programs also.

What more do you want? How much time? Which tunnel do you want to go use?

All of these questions should be answered before people start throwing advice.

Edit: Also, don't avoid the DZ. You can pass level 4 without tunnel....People did it for years before there was a tunnel. Talk to your Instructors.

The point of skydiving is to skydive.

edit AGAIN:
In reply to:
I don't know whether to go to Orlando or Perris. Their fee structures confuse me because of all the variables in both. I don't even know what to ask for. Does every segment of tunnel time include instruction? Is "coaching" the same as "instruction"?

Each session has a "Rat" with you. They can help with anything you need. You can pay more and get coaching from the tunnel staff (I honestly don't think at your level you will need more than the standard instruction...However, the tunnel rats are some of the best at flying period.) You can pay more and get a "contract coach". These folks get paid by you to be there. Some of them are people such as Sally, Paige, Solly Williams, and I do it as well. Their fees vary from free to a lot. The level of experience vary as well.

Its kind of a "buyer beware" market. I have seen some really crappy coaches charging for coaching. Best bet is to ask around. Many people have recomended Sally's program already in this thread, and I just saw Paige in the tunnel and she knows what she is doing as well.

Anymore questions ask...you can reply here, or PM me.


(This post was edited by Ron on Jul 5, 2005, 6:56 AM)


HeatherB  (B License)

Jul 5, 2005, 7:51 AM
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Re: [Ron] Will a wind tunnel help me pass AFF Level 4? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It will not matter if you use an AFF "I" or a tunnel rat to help fix your issue.

Agreed....just like I don't need to hire Airspeed to show me how to do 4-way. I'm nowhere near that level.

If an AFF student has video of their jumps, I suppose they could show a new tunnel coach their videos. Would that help at all? Do most students get video?


Ron

Jul 5, 2005, 8:01 AM
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Re: [HeatherB] Will a wind tunnel help me pass AFF Level 4? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Agreed....just like I don't need to hire Airspeed to show me how to do 4-way. I'm nowhere near that level

Airspeed could show you things I can't. Airspeed could show me things (in fact we have Houston this mth for a weekend).

Its a case of cost/benefit. You could learn tons from Airspeed, but you could also learn tons from several other coaches, and you might not pay as much.

In reply to:
If an AFF student has video of their jumps, I suppose they could show a new tunnel coach their videos. Would that help at all? Do most students get video?

It really does not matter IMO. Its nice, but I don't care what they did....I am going to show them what to do and have them do it.

http://www.dropzone.com/...post=1343580#1343580
Quote:
Seriously though the tunnel was the best thing I could have done at this point in my training, and Ron was awesome. I wasn't even in the tunnel for fifteen seconds before he had already corrected my body position that had been causing unintentional turns. As a student who had been unable to correct these turns since getting off of static line and onto freefall, this gave me such a good feeling. I was unable to jump this weekend so have only had one jump since getting back from the tunnel, but that jump was flawless in terms of the skills I had worked on in the tunnel.


marcandalysse  (C License)

Jul 5, 2005, 10:23 AM
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Post deleted by marcandalysse [In reply to]

 


Ron

Jul 5, 2005, 10:59 AM
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Re: [marcandalysse] Will a wind tunnel help me pass AFF Level 4? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
For that reason, I don't agree that just any tunnel coach/worker, as good as they may be in the tunnel, can match the experience of someone with hundreds/thousands of AFF jumps, and inspire that confidence in the beginning student during the redo of the level.

Who has more tunnel time and time teaching in the tunnel....Sally or myself, or a tunnel rat who's job it is to teach people to fly in the tunnel?

I'd bet on the Rat, and I have over 100 hours of tunnel time.

The rats take whuffos and put them in freefall in the tunnel ALL DAY, EVERYDAY.

It is what they do...So I'll have to disagree with your thought that an AFF rated person is better in the tunnel than the people who teach everyday in there.

For the level of instruction needed to pass level 4.....A rat could do as good, maybe even better than a coach.

And thats coming from me, an AFF rated skydiver that just did 5 hours of coaching in the tunnel this past weekend, and I have another 10 hours next weekend.

Plus, I can think of a few tunnel rats that ARE AFF rated.


Hackb431  (A 47470)

Jul 5, 2005, 12:55 PM
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Re: [Paige] Will a wind tunnel help me pass AFF Level 4? [In reply to] Can't Post

Not to mention that Paige is WICKED HOT!!!! Sorry Ari, but hey you knew already knew it! I'll be getting with you guys soon to book an hour or so....


Paige

Jul 5, 2005, 1:24 PM
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Re: [Hackb431] Will a wind tunnel help me pass AFF Level 4? [In reply to] Can't Post

TongueBlushLaugh

Despite what others on here might think, I want you to be at the tunnel flying. I don't care if its with me or whoever. The important thing is that people fly and learn from as many coaches as they can. If you can afford $$$ coaches, do it. I know I pay for coaching and love getting advice from everyone at the tunnel (well not everyone, let's not flame that statement please). The more you know in my opinion, it never hurts to hear it again, esp. coming from great people with many awesome experiences.

The Orlando rats are simply the best and are always willing to help in my experiences but maybe that's cause I have BOOBS LaughLaughWinkTongueSmile


Mockingbird  (A 49146)

Jul 6, 2005, 1:37 AM
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Re: [Ron] Will a wind tunnel help me pass AFF Level 4? [In reply to] Can't Post

Ron, thanks for answering in detail; I had no idea how it works--- now I do.

I'm shooting for the Perris tunnel first, because the weather in FL is supposed to be rainy thru July, and that would spoil my tentative plan to do an AFF jump while I'm there to see if I was able to fix the problem in the tunnel and transition to the sky.

I just want to get in there ASAP. I hope Perris has some available time VERY soon. I can't believe I'm going to these lengths...Blush


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