I am curious how different teams take the 13 out, especially in the ways Intermediate teams lunch and spin it without using the slot switching.
First, our continuity has the 13top with point as the head and tail as the tail with OC at the head of the cat.
We used to launch an odd slot meeker that unfoled nicely (put OC in the typ IC slot, IC in the typ tail slot, and tail in the typ OC slot). But it unfolds to a c-hammer and takes a second to get to the slightly cheated straight hammer we need for intermediate)
After watching this year's golden knights DVD we went with a P (or even modified P) launch. Very nice and quick to the top with easy grip switches. The resultant cheat from a straight hammer leaves us in our slots and avoids the slot switching issue. A real nice cat spin just over 90 degress to the catches, in slot.
But nothing stops us from just launching the hammer. The c-hammer launch is fun (lots of storks and odd grips), but doesn't gain you anything. - consider that the tail is in the typ OC slot facing backwards with a stork on the IC in the typ tail slot. The OC is inside storking for the IC and the point has a cheater grip on the tail. It's not very comfortable, but it lauches really nice.
You could just stack everyone outside and pull it off kind of like a snowflake or long cat launch goes facing uphill. It's clean as long at OC and point are patient and bit late. It's fun.
Or, just stack up as usual with storks on OC and IC, and again OC and point need to be patient to let IC out and down before going. It'll come right off. OC really needs to present left side high like a 4/A exit and point just wait until the last instant. Tail would be critical to stay low and get that stretch before the key
Right now, we have so many other things to work on so the P with some grip switching is nice and consistent. My eventual preference would be the italics above, but I like to mess with exits.
I was also thinking about lunching E with Tail as OC, IC as a tail and OC as IC (exactly as you said) but P sounds like a better idea since we need to straighten it up to avoid the traffic issues between IC/OC at the bottom of the block. I am running out of patience - cannot wait till next training camp
Edit to add; Hm ... If we want it to look straight and righteously with Pt at a head and Tail as a tail, why not lunch a G? ....... just a thought
(This post was edited by AMax on Jun 24, 2005, 10:28 AM)
We launch a fully gripped up side body (P) and grip switch to the 13.
Tail keys the first part of the 13, so that with this exit, he knows that OC has his grips on Point and only needs to make sure that himself and IC have grip switched before keying.
It may appear slow, but like I said, tail does not need to wait for the front piece to build before keying.
Hope that helps
Rgds, Phil ---------------------- www.southparc.co.uk
Hm ... If we want it to look straight and righteously with Pt at a head and Tail as a tail, why not lunch a G? ....... just a thought
It's an option and just two bits short of what I think is best. I think a sidebody grip switch to a cat is easier than a compressed grip switch to a sidebody (it puts the grips in control of one person). It's all about who has the longest move, not how many people move simultaneously. And a P is much more consistent for us than a G which is most important - consistency.
Also, I think it's 'safer' to do the grip switching down on the bottom of the hill than on the top. At least for us. The rear people can see stuff better and that helps.
And in our case, our tail is still working out issues launching a cat, so we have a lot of work on G, C and strangely, NOT 8.
The knights (in the DVD seem to) do a sidebody, with the tail already storked on the right hand in the correct cat grip - so he beats the IC to grips every time. They only wait for the IC to finish which is a nice cue for the OC to go since they are plenty good enough to trust a simple cat launch for the tail to be automatic. It's a nice compromise and takes the harder timing bit out of the equation completely. But this is all second hand from watching that DVD over and over and over - I think the GK's are cool.
That odd. How's it been working? I just can't see it. Maybe it's time to start those neck flexibility exercises. I don't have a 'point man neck' to be able to see or feel a tail key on 13. It would simplify things.
For us, the OC keys, but in reality, the IC controls it. I'm OC and I wait for either a shake or a 'big energy' pull in feel from my IC and then I key (release - big for now). Only then do we actually start any rotation for any piece. The tail looks for that and goes with the rest of us. Since OC in our cat move is medium passive, I can do a big flash for the tail (and the judges) on release. It works nice. Now we just need to clean up our finish. We're not consistent, but it's over 80% and getting better.
We don't think of 13 as a block, but as a precise random move. It's helped us with placing the finish quite a bit and that's cleaned us up a ton.
(This post was edited by rehmwa on Jun 24, 2005, 10:48 AM)
OC takes his grips and looks back, this is the sign that he's on. Tail can see that I'm on the cat. Our tail has HUGE arms (he's about 6'18") so OC can see the key just fine. It also means that there's no 'tug tug' pass it on kinda stuff going on.
The problem we do have - is that OC keeps keying the bottom of the 13 - when he shouldn't - as he can't know whether Point is catted on me correctly. That's my job
(This post was edited by SpinDoctor on Jun 24, 2005, 11:15 AM)
... a sidebody grip switch to a cat is easier than a compressed grip switch to a sidebody (it puts the grips in control of one person). It's all about who has the longest move, not how many people move simultaneously. And a P is much more consistent for us than a G which is most important - consistency.
our G's are pretty consistent, but your point about aswitching from compressed vs switching from SB is right on target. I haven't considered that.
In reply to:
Also, I think it's 'safer' to do the grip switching down on the bottom of the hill than on the top. At least for us. The rear people can see stuff better and that helps.
good point again
The knights (in the DVD seem to) do a sidebody, with the tail already storked on the right hand in the correct cat grip -bingo ... I am going to try that
LOL ... last night I spent almost half an hour visualizing taking out an E with switched positions between IC/OC and Tail and grip switching to 13 ... what a waste of time
(This post was edited by AMax on Jun 24, 2005, 11:21 AM)
Nice meet. Your round 2 looked freakily like ours in round 2. I wish we had the M in there though. It was worth a couple extra points in time to have that extra random.
LOL ... last night I spent almost half an hour visualizing taking out an E with switched positions between IC/OC and Tail and grip switching to 13 ... what a waste of time
only tail has grip switching, just closing the other grip for the other two......
It's just the hammer all rolled up. If you want to do this, and don't want to change the straight hammer at terminal, try this. 1 - open up to the curved hammer and catch grips - everyone can see it fairly cosmic but the tail (OC launch) has a great picture for the flash; 2-spin the cat about 90 so that the OC meets the tail for the catch - no more than that - don't make the tail move other than away a bit, just spin the cat in place and let the OC be agressive enough to make the catch, the point will finish last.; 3 - the point does a clean 180, actually a little less, and drive straight forward to the cheated cat finish as the IC hips come out to straighten the cat on finish.
All it does it leave an extra bit of translation for the point just a little more than he's used to, no translation (less) for the tail, and mixed up meeker on launch. It isn't that bad and pretty quick to key and you just have to be careful of the OC coming out of it in the right direction as the visual will pull his eyes around extra to his left and he'll might WANT to go the wrong way (or is it just me 13 used to be my nemesis this way). (Still I like the modified P launch, but this isn't as bad as it seems, but turning a bent 2-way cat can suck.....)
(This post was edited by rehmwa on Jun 24, 2005, 11:54 AM)
only tail has grip switching, just closing the other grip for the other two......
I got that Still like the P exit better. It would be nice to try both but we don't have much time and jumps to do that. Need to focus on more important staff. Thanks again!
And in our case, our tail is still working out issues launching a cat, so we have a lot of work on G, C and strangely, NOT 8. 
