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JayCam
Jumps
License
In sport
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: 9
: Student 933167
: 1 years
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Jun 22, 2005, 7:51 PM
Post #1 of 47
(1716 views)
Registered: Jun 7, 2005
Posts: 60
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Why wouldnt my cutaway cutaway?
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I pulled unstable on my back today and got into a massive mess of line twists. Tried to cut away but the handle wouldnt come loose no matter how hard i tried (and i tried hard). Can anyone suggest why this would happen? Had to try to untangle my main which wasnt pretty and had a pretty close call. I kind of backflipped through the risers and one got wrapped round my arm. It seems crazy that the chutes cannot take this kind of thing. I was pretty angry that I couldnt cutaway.
Anyway any suggestions as to why would be good.
J
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Squeak
Australia
Jumps
License
In sport
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: 1007
: E
: 6 years
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Jun 22, 2005, 7:59 PM
Post #3 of 47
(1687 views)
Registered: Sep 29, 2002
Posts: 17864
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Re: [JayCam] Why wouldnt my cutaway cutaway?
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Check the rig for "hard housings" the yellow cable that holds your 3 rings in place can get twisted up in the risers when you have line twists, this can "clamp" the yellow cables in the risers.
Hard housings can prevent this.
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1010
Jumps
License
In sport
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: 217
: B 28561
: 2 years
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Jun 22, 2005, 8:20 PM
Post #4 of 47
(1663 views)
Registered: Mar 24, 2004
Posts: 1100
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Re: [JayCam] Why wouldnt my cutaway cutaway?
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- What did your instructors or senior dz people say about it when you described the experinece to them? (I expect they should want to look at the rig.)
- Did the cutaway cables move freely after landing, ie not dirty, bent, kinked, or anything else wrong with them?
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JayCam
Jumps
License
In sport
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: 9
: Student 933167
: 1 years
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Jun 22, 2005, 8:46 PM
Post #5 of 47
(1644 views)
Registered: Jun 7, 2005
Posts: 60
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Re: [1010] Why wouldnt my cutaway cutaway?
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They said it was very unusual and have kept the rig aside to test it. I will find out next time I am there what went on.
J
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jasonRose
Jumps
License
In sport
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: 686
: D 9999999
: 3 years
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Jun 22, 2005, 9:38 PM
Post #6 of 47
(1617 views)
Registered: Apr 24, 2005
Posts: 2106
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Re: [JayCam] Why wouldnt my cutaway cutaway?
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I think I would have stacked my drawers full of poop on that one. Glad to hear you saved your own life. 
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KevinMcGuire
United States
Jumps
License
In sport
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: 4000
: D 15395
: 19 years
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Jun 22, 2005, 10:26 PM
Post #7 of 47
(1601 views)
Registered: Jun 26, 2003
Posts: 976
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Re: [JayCam] Why wouldnt my cutaway cutaway?
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what kind of rig was it? What size rings do the risers have? Are you sure that they are in tolerance? How long has it been since the three rings have been inspected and the cut away cable cleaned? Is there any hard channels inside the soft cable housing in the riser? Does the rig have soft or hard cutaway housings? Can you take the risers off the D-rings and attach a close up photo of the riser rings and the loop that holds them in place so that I may see their geometry? Maybe then I can give some answers rather than ask more questions.
K
One more thing. When you take the risers off the rig check to see if the yellow cable has been bent by being partially sucked through the grommet on the housing. With the cutaway pillow in place on the velcro, check the cable where the cable exits the housing. If it is bent there, then the cutaway may need to be replaced
Properly built risers should be able to withstand up to 600lbs of force before the yellow cable begins to suck through the grommet on the housing. At that point, cuttng away becomes impossible. If you experienced 600lbs or more then the cable will most certianly need to be replaced. If you do not believe that you reached 600lbs of force but your cabel is still bent, then you may have risers that are out of spec. If they are out of spec, they cannot be repaired. Cut the hardware off of them and and buy new risers
(This post was edited by KevinMcGuire on Jun 22, 2005, 10:42 PM)
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GravityGirl
United States
Jumps
License
In sport
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: 2800
: D 18897
: 15 years
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Jun 22, 2005, 10:35 PM
Post #8 of 47
(1595 views)
Registered: Jun 23, 2003
Posts: 3619
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Re: [JayCam] Why wouldnt my cutaway cutaway?
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I take it this is student gear.
Did you clearly peel the handle? Then pull down full force?
Is it possible that you were grabbing the harness?
The other questions about the gear were asked.
I figured I would ask about your proceedure.
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darkwing
United States
Jumps
License
In sport
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: 2400
: D 4164
: 35 years
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Jun 23, 2005, 3:42 AM
Post #9 of 47
(1526 views)
Registered: Sep 20, 2002
Posts: 2197
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Re: [JayCam] Why wouldnt my cutaway cutaway?
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Glad you didn't die.
Given your experience level, and some LIKELY (but not definite) interpretations and assumptions, I'd suggest the problem was probably you. Either you were pulling on something other than the handle (perhaps in addition to the handle), such as a piece of your jumpsuit, or the main lift web, or you were pulling the handle in shear mode rather than peel mode. You state that the "handle wouldn't come loose" which says to me that you never pulled on the cables, just the handle.
Don't get me wrong, I believe it is possible that there was something else wrong, but with the evidence at hand I just think the other scenarios are less likely. Dirty cables and housings can make pulls very hard also.
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RMURRAY
Canada
Jumps
License
In sport
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: 1800
:
:
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Jun 23, 2005, 4:18 AM
Post #10 of 47
(1502 views)
Registered: Oct 21, 2002
Posts: 849
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Re: [Hooknswoop] Why wouldnt my cutaway cutaway?
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Can anyone suggest why this would happen? If the risers were twisted together, then the cutaway cables were also twisted together. Without the protection of metal housings, this twisting causes the cutaway cables to be much harder to pull than normal. Derek
I'd like to see evidence of this (as in test data)....
rm
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jas8472
United Kingdom
Jumps
License
In sport
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: 800
: C 103
: 6 years
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Jun 23, 2005, 4:38 AM
Post #11 of 47
(1486 views)
Registered: Jul 14, 2003
Posts: 116
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Re: [RMURRAY] Why wouldnt my cutaway cutaway?
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When was the last time the velcro was peeled??
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JayCam
Jumps
License
In sport
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: 9
: Student 933167
: 1 years
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Jun 23, 2005, 4:41 AM
Post #12 of 47
(1484 views)
Registered: Jun 7, 2005
Posts: 60
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Re: [darkwing] Why wouldnt my cutaway cutaway?
[In reply to]
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Glad you didn't die.
Given your experience level, and some LIKELY (but not definite) interpretations and assumptions, I'd suggest the problem was probably you. Either you were pulling on something other than the handle (perhaps in addition to the handle), such as a piece of your jumpsuit, or the main lift web, or you were pulling the handle in shear mode rather than peel mode. You state that the "handle wouldn't come loose" which says to me that you never pulled on the cables, just the handle.
Don't get me wrong, I believe it is possible that there was something else wrong, but with the evidence at hand I just think the other scenarios are less likely. Dirty cables and housings can make pulls very hard also.
Sorry bad choice of words. The handle DID come loose and the cutaway cables came out about 4 inches but would come no further. I DEFINATELY was pulling the pad I saw the yellow cables come out and I was trying to pull it for about 20 seconds and then again later on. It wasnt a case of getting the handle off the velcro or pulling the wrong thing.
To all the gear questions I am sorry I dont know I am but a newbie who isnt even qualified to pack yet. It isnt my rig it belongs to my drop zone so I cant take it apart and take pictures. They will be inspecting it Im sure so I will have to ask next time I am there.
J
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riggerrob
Canada
Jumps
License
In sport
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: 6200
: D 14840
: 32 years
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Jun 23, 2005, 6:00 AM
Post #16 of 47
(1417 views)
Registered: Mar 1, 2001
Posts: 11149
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Re: [JayCam] Why wouldnt my cutaway cutaway?
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Which type of canopy were you jumping?
What size of canopy?
What size of risers (1" or 1 23/32" wide)?
Did the risers have hard inserts to protect the cables?
What size of rings on the risers (mini or large)?
What size of rings on the harness (mini or large)?
What model of harness?
Hard or soft cutaway housings on the harness?
Was the cutaway handle built by the same factory as the harness?
When was the last time the cables were cleaned?
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JayCam
Jumps
License
In sport
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: 9
: Student 933167
: 1 years
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Jun 23, 2005, 8:25 AM
Post #17 of 47
(1355 views)
Registered: Jun 7, 2005
Posts: 60
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Re: [riggerrob] Why wouldnt my cutaway cutaway?
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End this thread... to continue go to "first really bad experience" under the General skydiving section...
J
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RMURRAY
Canada
Jumps
License
In sport
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: 1800
:
:
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Jun 23, 2005, 2:30 PM
Post #18 of 47
(1213 views)
Registered: Oct 21, 2002
Posts: 849
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Re: [Hooknswoop] Why wouldnt my cutaway cutaway?
[In reply to]
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I'd like to see evidence of this (as in test data).... A search for 'Hard Cutaway' will provide some info too. Derek
searching DZ.com does not prove anything to me - I'd like to see real test data. John Sherman says they are not needed (on my racer) so I will go with what he says. This has been discussed before - I don't mean to highjack the discussion.
rm
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hookitt
United States
Jumps
License
In sport
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: 4900
: D
: 18 years
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Jun 23, 2005, 5:08 PM
Post #20 of 47
(1165 views)
Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 8565
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Re: [RMURRAY] Why wouldnt my cutaway cutaway?
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John Sherman wasn't flying the canopy I jumped several years back when I had line twists that pinned my head down to my chest. I pulled muscles cutting that one away.
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sundevil777
United States
Jumps
License
In sport
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: 1200
: D 13695
: 29 years
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Jun 23, 2005, 5:21 PM
Post #21 of 47
(1154 views)
Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 5173
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Re: [RMURRAY] Why wouldnt my cutaway cutaway?
[In reply to]
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I'd like to see evidence of this (as in test data).... A search for 'Hard Cutaway' will provide some info too. Derek searching DZ.com does not prove anything to me - I'd like to see real test data. John Sherman says they are not needed (on my racer) so I will go with what he says. This has been discussed before - I don't mean to highjack the discussion. rm
I can believe that a Racer's cables will pull out easier because they are teflon coated, everything else being equal, but unfortunately everything else is not equal. The teflon cables are not as stiff, so they get bent by the loop easier, increasing pull forces.
The thought of the cable being bent like this is not comforting.
(This post was edited by sundevil777 on Jun 23, 2005, 5:53 PM)
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PhreeZone
Moderator
United States
Jumps
License
In sport
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: 1625
: D
: 8 years
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Jun 23, 2005, 6:31 PM
Post #22 of 47
(1131 views)
Registered: Mar 18, 2001
Posts: 21408
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Re: [RMURRAY] Why wouldnt my cutaway cutaway?
[In reply to]
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Look in the May 2003 issue of Parachutist for the breakdown.
Here is some of the info:
We demonstrated those same three combinations with me hanging normally, then with two line twists, then with two line twists at 2 Gs. We simulated 2 Gs by having a guy who weighed about the same as me hanging onto my back.
The results were amazing.
When I was just hanging straight, I could cutaway with about 5-10 pounds (closer to 5) of force, regardless of the presence of cable housings.
With two line twists introduced, results went as follows:
No housings: 45 pounds of force (use two hands, folks!)
Plastic housings: 10 pounds
Steel housings: 5-10 pounds.
With 2 line twists plus 2 Gs:
No housings: Off the scale. Scale only measures to 50 lbs, but there was still room for the needle to go up above the 50 lb mark. Basically, I had the needle slammed all the way up against the top, well beyond the 50 lb mark.
Plastic housings: 25 pounds
Steel housings: 5-10 lbs
Here is the post from the person that was in the harness for all the cutaways:
http://www.dropzone.com/...i?post=408778#408778
Just since a single manufactor says they are not needed does'nt mean that they truely are not.
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sundevil777
United States
Jumps
License
In sport
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: 1200
: D 13695
: 29 years
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Jun 23, 2005, 6:39 PM
Post #24 of 47
(1126 views)
Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 5173
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Re: [PhreeZone] Why wouldnt my cutaway cutaway?
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Was your test with mini risers or std?
Sounds like a fun 'speriment during weather holds
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PhreeZone
Moderator
United States
Jumps
License
In sport
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: 1625
: D
: 8 years
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Jun 23, 2005, 7:18 PM
Post #25 of 47
(1109 views)
Registered: Mar 18, 2001
Posts: 21408
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Re: [sundevil777] Why wouldnt my cutaway cutaway?
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I did'nt do it, just coppied and posted but if I remember right in that issue they did it for both sizes of rings and had charts for them all.
Yeah, I mention hard inserts to some of the people that don't get online and never travel away from my DZ and they look at me weird too. Talking to people like SkyMonkey1 who almost went in due to the risers getting twisted on his little canopy changed my mind fast and a few others.
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