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AAD's on big-ways

 

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AMax

Jun 16, 2005, 8:54 AM
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AAD's on big-ways Can't Post

I have a question to experienced big-way folks. I have heard more than once that some people like to turn the AAD off when they have to leave in first wave and open close to minimal deployment altitude to minimize the possibility of two out due to AAD fire. So is this absolutely uncommon, suicidal, old school or people still do that?

The patient silence of those who cannot consider themselves as experienced big-way folks would be greatly appreciated.


jlmiracle  (D License)

Jun 16, 2005, 9:21 AM
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Re: [AMax] AAD's on big-ways [In reply to] Can't Post

hmmm, I've never heard that, but NO ONE should be dumping that low on any skydive where the cypres would arm and fire.

IMO, doesn't sound like the best thing to do, nor have I heard anyone recommend that on any of the bigways I was on.


Judy


(This post was edited by jlmiracle on Jun 16, 2005, 10:11 AM)


linestretch  (D 21060)

Jun 16, 2005, 10:05 AM
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Re: [AMax] AAD's on big-ways [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The patient silence of those who cannot consider themselves as experienced big-way folks would be greatly appreciated.

All I can say is good quote!......and I've never heard of it either, but it wouldn't surprise me.


Premier wmw999  (D 6296)

Jun 16, 2005, 10:12 AM
Post #4 of 31 (1839 views)
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Re: [linestretch] AAD's on big-ways [In reply to] Can't Post

I've been on a few (not a lot, but a few). I do know that it wasn't discussed as an option at Kate and Tony's bigway camp last month, and it wasn't discussed as an option at Rob Laidlaw's camp last year.

Opening at a safe altitude was emphasized. Some bigway jumpers prefer faster-opening canopies because of the possibility.

If it's common in the "in crowd" well, it's now clear I'm not in the "in crowd."


tigra  (C 27417)

Jun 16, 2005, 10:42 AM
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Re: [AMax] AAD's on big-ways [In reply to] Can't Post

I remember one person using that as an excuse for a cypres fire on a record attempt. I thought it was BS then and I still do. I also know another person who had a cypres fire/ 2 out and blamed her snivelly canopy and not her low deployment altitude. Also BS.

I know when they did the Venezualan national record a few years ago, AADs were mandatory.

And I was there for one fatality during a record attempt that might have turned out differently IF she had used one of her cypres equipped rigs.

Its not an uncommon attitude among old school jumpers, but it isn't the norm either.


kallend  (D 23151)

Jun 16, 2005, 11:30 AM
Post #6 of 31 (1763 views)
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Re: [AMax] AAD's on big-ways [In reply to] Can't Post

 

I've never had this suggested, and I'm a "first wave" breakoff on almost every big-way I've been on.

If you deploy low enough to risk a CYPRES fire, you just broke the BSR concerning container opening altitude. No organizer ever asked me to deploy below 2 grand.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
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Jun 16, 2005, 12:16 PM
Post #7 of 31 (1729 views)
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Re: [AMax] AAD's on big-ways [In reply to] Can't Post

>So is this absolutely uncommon, suicidal, old school or people still do that?

It is uncommon nowadays. 15-20 years ago it was common for people to not use older AAD's for big ways (any RW, really) since they tended to fire prematurely. But that's not true any more. Most of the people on the 300 and 372 ways used cypreses, and I recall only a few cypres firings (including one that fired due to landing near a radar installation in the landing area.) I don't recall anyone talking about turning off their cypres 'in case they went low.'

Personally I have only made that decision once, about ten years ago, and it turned out to be both a good and a bad decision. Good because I would have had a cypres firing on that jump, bad because it's really stupid to make a jump where you think you might go low. A better decision would have been to not make the jump.


BenediktDE

Jun 16, 2005, 12:18 PM
Post #8 of 31 (1727 views)
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Re: [AMax] AAD's on big-ways [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The patient silence of those who cannot consider themselves as experienced big-way folks would be greatly appreciated.
Well, hope you do not mind me forwarding a fact:

There was a cypres save a few weeks ago here in Germany where a jumper fell into a 16way with enormous speed and knocked out an other jumper who did not regain consciousness before landing. He broke an arm but lives.


tigra  (C 27417)

Jun 16, 2005, 12:25 PM
Post #9 of 31 (1721 views)
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Re: [kallend] AAD's on big-ways [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Quote:
I've never had this suggested, and I'm a "first wave" breakoff on almost every big-way I've been on.

That's because you're a floaty *******! Wink


AMax

Jun 16, 2005, 12:46 PM
Post #10 of 31 (1709 views)
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Re: [kallend] AAD's on big-ways [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

I've never had this suggested, and I'm a "first wave" breakoff on almost every big-way I've been on.

If you deploy low enough to risk a CYPRES fire, you just broke the BSR concerning container opening altitude. No organizer ever asked me to deploy below 2 grand.

Just to clarify. I did not mean to ask if organizes suggest not to use an AAD or open lower than 2K Wink Clearly, opening close to minimum deployment altitude increases the risk of AAD fire so I was curious how many people are willing to make a trade between a possibility of getting knocked out and not having a functional AAD and getting a two out. Thanks for your input Wink


jlmiracle  (D License)

Jun 16, 2005, 12:54 PM
Post #11 of 31 (1703 views)
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Re: [AMax] AAD's on big-ways [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Just to clarify. I did not mean to ask if organizes suggest not to use an AAD or open lower than 2K Clearly, opening close to minimum deployment altitude increases the risk of AAD fire so I was curious how many people are willing to make a trade between a possibility of getting knocked out and not having a functional AAD and getting a two out.

No, if I am that concerned about traffic on opening I don't need to be on that skydive.

If you are going for a World Record all particpants on the jump need to be under the canopy they intend on landing by 1500 ft, so a cypres fire would nulify the jump if it was completed.

judy


bodypilot1  (D 16037)

Jun 16, 2005, 1:39 PM
Post #12 of 31 (1667 views)
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Re: [AMax] AAD's on big-ways [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Pulling low (purposely) or doing something that is considered unsafe on a bigway, will get you cut or sat down, no matter how good of a skydiver you are. Wink

Skydivers that are jumping with an AAD know it's a choice, bigway or not, most people that have them realize the purpose of them and have them ON for every skydive I'd hope.

On the bigways I have been on (alot), I have never heard anyone saying they were turning it off so they could pull low, as they realize the risk of a collision and the possible NEED for the AAD before the track off on a bigway. Wink


Be safe.
Ed


tkhayes  (D 18764)

Jun 16, 2005, 4:09 PM
Post #13 of 31 (1602 views)
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Re: [AMax] AAD's on big-ways [In reply to] Can't Post

old school - I've been on MANY of the big ways, always in the base, always near-last to open, wore a Cypres since 1991, NEVER had a fire and I never worried about it either.

turn your Cypres on, big ways mean more chances for a collision. Learn to track fool! that will keep you alive longer. leave the formation when you are supposed to and stop making excuses for opening low.

(TK's survival skills for fat base guys)

TK


flyangel2

Jun 16, 2005, 5:21 PM
Post #14 of 31 (1570 views)
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Re: [AMax] AAD's on big-ways [In reply to] Can't Post

I've done lots of bigways, and most times I'm on the outside wave being one of the lower ones to open. Cypress is not turned off. I just keep an eye on traffic and my altitude so I won't dump low. If there is someone that I see that is going to cause a problem during the track, I don't wait till the last second to fix the problem. Most times we are tracking for a good six seconds. Be aware and find the clear air space before it's too late.


skykittykat  (C 101362)

Jun 16, 2005, 7:17 PM
Post #15 of 31 (1535 views)
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Re: [AMax] AAD's on big-ways [In reply to] Can't Post

An AAD on big ways would be advisable - depending upon who is organising, you could be knocked out due to someone tracking into your head (happened to me twice on one jump which was an 8 way???, but I didn't pass out).

Generally, break off is very regimented on big ways. You have a break off height and a pull height, eg, first wave go at 5k and pull no higher than 2.5k. If those people pull at 2.5k then they are open before their hard deck.

To follow on from other peoples' topics - if you do your job on a big way then there should be no reason to pull low or not get into your own airspace to pull.

To slightly go off topic, I have chosen my canopy with regard to big ways due to it's characteristics - a Spectre - on heading openings and with my wingloading and type of canopy, I stay up in the air longer than most letting the more high performance canopies/pilots land before me.

By the way, there is no such thing as a stupid question, only a stupid answerSmile.

If my answer has been stupid, please disregardTongue

Liz


(This post was edited by skykittykat on Jun 16, 2005, 7:19 PM)


happythoughts  (D License)

Jun 16, 2005, 8:25 PM
Post #16 of 31 (1512 views)
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Re: [AMax] AAD's on big-ways [In reply to] Can't Post

Never heard of it. Usually the outside dumps at 2K, but not lower.

I know of one experienced big-way person who would be alive to day if they had been using an AAD.


diablopilot  (D License)

Jun 16, 2005, 9:07 PM
Post #17 of 31 (1501 views)
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Re: [AMax] AAD's on big-ways [In reply to] Can't Post

2000'AGL is the USPA's minimup pack opening altitude. For the most part people who say they suck it below that are delusional.

BTW, I don't jump an AAD on bigways.


bob.dino  (E 2185)

Jun 16, 2005, 9:57 PM
Post #18 of 31 (1489 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] AAD's on big-ways [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
BTW, I don't jump an AAD on bigways.

Do you jump with an AAD when not on bigways?


parachutist  (D 25468)

Jun 16, 2005, 10:01 PM
Post #19 of 31 (1486 views)
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Re: [AMax] AAD's on big-ways [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I have a question to experienced big-way folks.

I was in a big-way a couple years ago. 70 jumpers in the formation. There were 3 or 4 AADs... I'm not sure how many of those were turned on.

Wink


Premier quade  (D 22635)
Moderator
Jun 16, 2005, 10:14 PM
Post #20 of 31 (1481 views)
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Re: [parachutist] AAD's on big-ways [In reply to] Can't Post

(sigh) . . . I think it's fairly obvious he meant RW big-ways and wasn't addressing CRW ya big wise guy! Wink


(This post was edited by quade on Jun 16, 2005, 10:17 PM)


speedy

Jun 17, 2005, 3:50 AM
Post #21 of 31 (1426 views)
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Re: [parachutist] AAD's on big-ways [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I'm not sure how many of those were turned on.
If they wern't turned on, then why not? Cypres may not be all that important for CRW, but it won't cause any harm.


parachutist  (D 25468)

Jun 17, 2005, 5:57 AM
Post #22 of 31 (1398 views)
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Re: [speedy] AAD's on big-ways [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
I'm not sure how many of those were turned on.
If they wern't turned on, then why not? Cypres may not be all that important for CRW, but it won't cause any harm.

We use radios in the large CRW formations and some people have concerns about radio frequencies causing unexpected behavior with AADs. This is one reason, there are a few other reasons people have... it's always about possibility of misfire seeming greater than possibility of the AAD saving someone in a CRW formation


AMax

Jun 17, 2005, 8:15 AM
Post #23 of 31 (1364 views)
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Re: [parachutist] AAD's on big-ways [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I have a question to experienced big-way folks.

I was in a big-way a couple years ago. 70 jumpers in the formation. There were 3 or 4 AADs... I'm not sure how many of those were turned on.

Wink

LOL ... Somehow I knew that sooner or later Crew dogs will post something like that WinkWinkWink


(This post was edited by AMax on Jun 17, 2005, 8:37 AM)


diablopilot  (D License)

Jun 17, 2005, 11:08 AM
Post #24 of 31 (1320 views)
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Re: [bob.dino] AAD's on big-ways [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
BTW, I don't jump an AAD on bigways.

Do you jump with an AAD when not on bigways?

Only on tandems currently.

My original statment was typed too fast...it should read "For the most part people who say they suck it below that for saftey reasons are delusional."

Sorry for the confusion.


Zep  (D 9022)

Jun 17, 2005, 12:30 PM
Post #25 of 31 (1299 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] AAD's on big-ways [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Quote:
BTW, I don't jump an AAD on bigways.

Do you jump with an AAD when not on bigways?

Only on tandems currently.

My original statment was typed too fast...it should read "For the most part people who say they suck it below that for saftey reasons are delusional."

Sorry for the confusion.



I'm curious to know why you don't use an AAD when not doing tandems,

I was very opposed to the mandatory use of AAd's here in Spain
firstly, because we did'nt get to vote on it
Secondly, I really do belive it should be a personal choice for experienced skydivers


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