Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
I need some help....

 


skymedic  (C 33561)

May 18, 2001, 10:46 AM
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I need some help.... Can't Post

I need some help with my accuracy under canopy. I keep overshooting. This last time I had a close encounter with and airplane. Lets just say I turf surfed with my back to the ground and skidded under the wing. No damage to me or the plane, but has absolutely killed my confidence. I have had great skydives and am now falling straight down but am having the hardest time under canopy. Yesterday after the airplane accident one of the instructors ripped me a new one and I cant blame him considering he filmed the fatality the day before and rescued the guy out of the river where he hit. Sorry for rambling on, but do you guys have any advice.

thanks, marc

oh yeah, it was a no wind, mid to high 90's day too!!



Zennie

May 18, 2001, 11:45 AM
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I had something similar happen a while back, but not quite as close as you.

In my case, I was suffering from a bad case of target fixation. I was trying to do an accuracy jump, botched my approach, thought I was too low to turn back (I wasn't) and wound up heading straight for the runway. So my "cure" was simply to never let myself get out of my landing comfort zone, even if it meant not getting close to my selected target for that jump.

Don't get too distressed though. We all have close calls. My philosophy is that it's OK to make a mistake (within the boundaries of sanity), as long as you learn from them and don't repeat them. Just move on and be safe. Smile

As far as overshooting goes, has anyone ever taught you the "accuracy trick"? Basically, it's a way to figure out where you're gonna land based on what the ground is doing beneath you. If you look down, you'll see the ground below you is moving away from you. Look straight out far enough, and the ground should be moving up in your field of vision. In the middle will be a point that's stationary. That's where you're gonna land. So you can adjust with brakes, front risers, carbbing, etc. to get yourself moviong toward your preferred landing point.

I generally strat by looking directly below and scanning upward till I find the stationary spot. It's helped me a lot and it also comes in handy in determining if your gonna make it back to the DZ after a bad spot.

------------
Blue Skies!

Zennie


miked10270  (D 10270)

May 18, 2001, 12:46 PM
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Hi Skymedic,

I may be "Teaching my granny how to suck eggs" here, but I suspect that you don't jump frequently in nil winds. This can often be the worst conditions to jump in because you have nothing to work against on your approach to landing!

Perhaps the most important lesson learned from this is to consider not just your landing area, but also your outs - in effect your "Plan B". Plan your approach & landing early (like when you're walking out to the 'plane(!!)): "Where do I want to land?" "What is the wind direction & strength?" "How fast will I cover ground on approach to landing?" "If I want to land exactly there, what do I want to be over at 200', 300', 500'?" "What are my overshoot/undershoot/out areas?(for if & when I misjudge it)".

Personally, I've looked at a DZ, looked at the load emplaning, looked at the wind (or lack thereof), THEN deliberately landed out in a "student area" & took the long walk back 'cos it seemed the safe option at the time.

Hope this helps,

Mike D10270.



cdunham

May 18, 2001, 1:38 PM
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In reply to:
one of the instructors ripped me a new one
And I'll bet he suggested you sign up for his canopy control course that your dz offers. What, there isn't one? Wait, you mean there aren't any anywhere? How do people learn to fly canopies, during the 10 jumps of their student progression? No wonder we slip, slide, crash and end up under the wings of parked aircraft.

Carl




Dutchboy  (A 37004)

May 18, 2001, 2:43 PM
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Re: I need some help.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Zennie is right about the accuracy trick. One thing to be aware of is that you will land slightly farther than the stationary point because your canopy will plane out and float in ground effect. This is more true if it is ZP or a 9-cell.

I've had problems with landing long before. It helps to plan ahead and force yourself not to turn final till 200ft with no wind instead of the 500ft you might use with some wind.

The Dutchboy
http://www.geocities.com/ppolstra


Zennie

May 18, 2001, 2:59 PM
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In reply to:
One thing to be aware of is that you will land slightly farther than the stationary point because your canopy will plane out and float in ground effect.
Heh. That's the truth. Smile

I've lately been working on "aiming" about 20 yards or so in advance of my intended stopping point because of the surf I get when I flare.


------------
Blue Skies!

Zennie

<FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Zennie on 5/18/01 03:00 PM.</EM></FONT>


skymedic  (C 33561)

May 18, 2001, 7:21 PM
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Re: I need some help.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the advice guys. I did notice that when I came close to the plane I actualy thought I would land about 20-30ft before it. But I am flying a PD280 navigator, which is a 9 cell, this was the first time I actualy felt like I surfed it a bit. kinda fun but not really as I saw the plane coming at me!!!
I geuss now my biggest problem is my confidence is shot, and that is the worst thing to have in this sport it seams. well at least when you only have a couple jumps out of AFF graduation.

Thanks again, Marc



Zennie

May 18, 2001, 7:45 PM
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In reply to:
I geuss now my biggest problem is my confidence is shot, and that is the worst thing to have in this sport it seams
Yeah, mine was pretty fragile right after I got off student status as well (still is, just not as much). You're new. You will screw up. Hell, people with hundreds of jumps screw up.

Best thing to do is get back on the horse. Talk to your instructor. Mine have always been willing to give advice when I ask for it. Try the "accuracy trick". Work on finding that stationary point. See how it changes when you ride in brakes & full glide.

It just comes with practice.

Oh, and you will land downwind/crosswind as well. So don't get bummed when it happens. Wink

Have fun!

------------
Blue Skies!

Zennie


mikefarmer  (D 19948)

May 18, 2001, 9:44 PM
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Re: I need some help.... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
And I'll bet he suggested you sign up for his canopy control course that your dz offers. What, there isn't one? Wait, you mean there aren't any anywhere? How do people learn to fly canopies, during the 10 jumps of their student progression? No wonder we slip, slide, crash and end up under the wings of parked aircraft.
Man, that's twice I've run into you on canopy related threads. Both times you've made perfect sense. You're lucky I'm married!

Mike

Hey, I'm not packed,
what's in that one?
Never mind, I'll jump it!


mikefarmer  (D 19948)

May 18, 2001, 9:47 PM
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In reply to:
I geuss now my biggest problem is my confidence is shot, and that is the worst thing to have in this sport it seams. well at least when you only have a couple jumps out of AFF graduation.
Nah, it could be worse. You could be over confident. Keep flying, HAVE FUN, you'll do fine!


Mike

Hey, I'm not packed,
what's in that one?
Never mind, I'll jump it!


cdunham

May 19, 2001, 5:03 PM
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In reply to:
You're lucky I'm married!
And you're lucky I'm straight. I guess?

Carl



Grogs  (D 24265)

May 21, 2001, 8:34 AM
Post #12 of 16 (1425 views)
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Re: I need some help.... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
And I'll bet he suggested you sign up for his canopy control course that your dz offers. What, there isn't one? Wait, you mean there aren't any anywhere? How do people learn to fly canopies, during the 10 jumps of their student progression? No wonder we slip, slide, crash and end up under the wings of parked aircraft.
This isn't *quite* true. There is a canopy control course at Deland and (I believe) Perris Valley. From what I have heard it is very good and they can train you for any level from the very basics to doing a super canopy swoop with your VX-79. I'd love to go through myself, but the $$ and getting the time off are always a problem. Maybe after I win the lottery. Tongue

A couple of things you might consider doing if you're really having problems:

Wear a radio again for a few jumps. Fly in normally and just have the person with the radio talk to you if you're getting into trouble. Than talk to the person with the radio afterwards and get him to debrief you on why he gave you corrections.

-OR-

Have someone film your pattern and landings from the ground, then get a JM or other experienced jumper to watch the tape with you and debrief you on what exactly you did. What you see from the ground is usually far different from what you see when you're under canopy.

-OR-

This is probably the hardest one to do. Get a very experienced canopy pilot, preferably a CRW type to jump with you and fly a similarly loaded canopy, then you play follow the leader and follow him through the landing pattern and he debriefs you at the end.

Flying the canopy is really *the* weakest point of the current training methods. We really should be doing these sorts of things anyway rather than you having to go and ask people to help you out. Until then, be proactive and go ask for the help if you need it.

Blue Skies,
Grogs



skymedic  (C 33561)

May 21, 2001, 12:14 PM
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Re: I need some help.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey guys, thanks for all the tips and support. I did awesome this weekend(no airplane incidents). thanks to the tips, I was 20 meters away from the pea's my first jump, about 25-30 the next jump, and only about 5 meters my last jump. you want to talk about a confidence boost, man, I was feeling great after yesterday. Now I am only two jumps and a packing class away from my A license. Oh by the way, that acuracy thing with watching the spot that doesnt move really helped me out the most!!! thanks again, marc



Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

May 22, 2001, 9:36 AM
Post #14 of 16 (1367 views)
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Re: I need some help.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Ask around and see if anyone has a copy of the video "Fly Like A Pro". I guarantee SOMEONE has it already. Borrow it and watch it. If there really is nobody there that has it, then you might consider buying it yourself, or going in together with someone else. It is a good film and I reccomend it for everyone at every experience level who has questions with their canopy control. Besides that, you have done the right thing by asking for advice in this forum.

Chuck



Billy  (D 25768)

May 22, 2001, 3:49 PM
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Way ta go Marc!!
Good luck on your "A" test!!
Billy



riggerrob  (D 14840)

May 23, 2001, 11:23 AM
Post #16 of 16 (1314 views)
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Re: I need some help.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Mike was right about stating to plan your approach as you walk out to the airplane.
While the canopy flight schools at Perris and Elsinore and DeLand are great for learning how to fly tiny canopies, I suspect that they are a bit too advanced for the original poster.
Better to consult your friendly neighborhood CSPA or Skydive University Coach and ask their advice on landing approaches. If no coaches are available, then ask Skydive U. to mail you a copy of their "Basic Canopy Flight 101" video. the BCF video is more systematic and I find it easier to follow their logic in developing canopy skills. The video - and accompanying textbook contain all sorts of skills that A Certificate jumpers "should know" but are rarely taught during the student process.
If you work through all the exercises in BCF 101, you will quickly surpass the skills of many self-proffessed "Stiletto pilots."
The next step in becoming a competent "Stilletto pilot" is to visit the Australian Parachute Federation's website and print out a copy of their pamphlet titled "High Performance Canopies."
Blue skies and soft landings.




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