Forums: Skydiving: Tandem Skydiving:
Status of night tandem jumps...

 

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Guru312  (C 6814)

May 9, 2005, 7:09 PM
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Status of night tandem jumps... Can't Post

I spent almost 45 minutes on the USPA website in an attempt at finding regulations on night tandem jumps. I wasn't able to find anything in the SIM or any other on-line manuals.

I did note that night jumps are considered 'extraordinary' so I'm assuming night tandems aren't terribly common.

Can anyone tell me the situation with night tandem jumps?

Do any DZs actively encourage or advertise for them?

What would be representative cost for such a jump?

I have a quite a few night jumps and always thought they were more fun than day jumps. Night tandems would be a trip...

Thanks!


Travman  (E License)

May 9, 2005, 7:13 PM
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Re: [Guru312] Status of night tandem jumps... [In reply to] Can't Post

I can't help with the rules in the US, but the australian Op Regs are as follows
5.7.17. Night tandem jumps with a student who does not hold at least a Certificate "A" may be made only as display jumps by a tandem-master who has made at least 100 previous tandem descents as tandem-master, and in accordance with 5.7.16.


billbooth  (D 3546)

May 9, 2005, 7:17 PM
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Re: [Guru312] Status of night tandem jumps... [In reply to] Can't Post

There is little or no reason, or benefit, to take a newbie tandem student on a night jump. Night jumps are simply more dangerous than day jumps, so we discourage them.


AggieDave  (D License)

May 9, 2005, 7:49 PM
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Re: [billbooth] Status of night tandem jumps... [In reply to] Can't Post

Mr. Booth,

I was under the impression that the USPA did more then just discourage them. It is my understanding that all student jumpers must have landed prior to actual sunset, and a tandem skydive is a student jump, thus night tandems were forbidden except in special cases with written permission from the USPA.

Am I wrong in that understanding?


Guru312  (C 6814)

May 9, 2005, 9:05 PM
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Re: [billbooth] Status of night tandem jumps... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
There is little or no reason, or benefit, to take a newbie tandem student on a night jump. Night jumps are simply more dangerous than day jumps, so we discourage them.

This I understand. But I'm asking for 'specific' reference to official doctrine.

I flew one of the first half dozen stadium jumps. Stadium jumps were highly discouraged; now USPA Pro certification mentions stadiums by name. So times change...

Tandem and AFF were long discouraged as you know better than most.

Maybe DZs are missing an extra money-maker by not figuring how to sell night tandems to wuffos. Cool


Zenister  (A 42)

May 9, 2005, 10:20 PM
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Re: [Guru312] Status of night tandem jumps... [In reply to] Can't Post

a night tandem would seem like a waste of money to me... even as a licensed skydiver... the visuals are a big part of skydiving.. what are the chances a first time jumper is going to be aware enough to really recognize the limited sight picture they will get by doing a night jump?


bodypilot1  (D 16037)

May 9, 2005, 11:05 PM
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Re: [Zenister] Status of night tandem jumps... [In reply to] Can't Post

 

In reply to:
what are the chances a first time jumper is going to be aware enough to really recognize the limited sight picture they will get by doing a night jump?

Unless the tandem was over the city lights of Los Angeles or San Fransisco! Wink


Be safe.
Ed


mjosparky  (D 5476)

May 10, 2005, 12:02 AM
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Re: [AggieDave] Status of night tandem jumps... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Mr. Booth,

I was under the impression that the USPA did more then just discourage them. It is my understanding that all student jumpers must have landed prior to actual sunset, and a tandem skydive is a student jump, thus night tandems were forbidden except in special cases with written permission from the USPA.

Am I wrong in that understanding?

2005 SIM: Sec. 2-1-E9

"All student jumps must be completed between official sunrise and sunset. [NW]"

And tandem passengers are considered students. The [NW] means Non Waiver-able

Sparky


dragon2  (D 101989)

May 10, 2005, 12:48 AM
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Re: [Zenister] Status of night tandem jumps... [In reply to] Can't Post

I did a night tandem jump because I have always been sort of nightblind, and after Lasik I wanted to see if my eyes had improved enough for me to do a night jump on my own. I was told I could ask a TM but I had to ask an experienced one. No regs, just common sense.

It was a blast!

Turned out I could see fine, however my sense of direction was gone, the TM was screaming in my ear in freefall and pointing, but I couldnt find the lit T...

The next year I did do a night jump on my own, with 10 of us jumping in what turned out to be too much wind, noone ended up at the DZ but most were close, I ended up miles away CrazyBlush

A very experienced TM took his kid up on the same load, we think shes the youngest night tandem passenger here. This was her 2nd tandem. She loved it! And some of the girls here that are afraid to do night jumps or are night blind are now thinking about asking their bf TMs about doing a night tandem as well, to see what its like, but not all TMs will do it.


Zenister  (A 42)

May 10, 2005, 1:19 AM
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Re: [bodypilot1] Status of night tandem jumps... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

In reply to:
what are the chances a first time jumper is going to be aware enough to really recognize the limited sight picture they will get by doing a night jump?

Unless the tandem was over the city lights of Los Angeles or San Fransisco! Wink

personally i'm waiting for Skydive Las Vegas to become a real dropzone so we can do night jumps there...Cool


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

May 10, 2005, 1:33 AM
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Re: [billbooth] Status of night tandem jumps... [In reply to] Can't Post

Hm. There are some places where night does not mean real darkness. But you are right it can not be done, not even in Finland. No student jump is allowed between sunset and sunrise.


outlawphx  (D 15712)

May 10, 2005, 7:03 AM
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Re: [Zenister] Status of night tandem jumps... [In reply to] Can't Post

I've done about 10 night jumps in Vegas, including a couple demos, back when the dropzone was in town. I can't imagine anyplace cooler for night jumps Cool


Zenister  (A 42)

May 10, 2005, 12:01 PM
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Re: [outlawphx] Status of night tandem jumps... [In reply to] Can't Post

yea i'd even put the time in to get my PRO rating and wear the rhinestone jump suit to do a few if that were still an option....


AggieDave  (D License)

May 10, 2005, 2:44 PM
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Re: [mjosparky] Status of night tandem jumps... [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
2005 SIM: Sec. 2-1-E9

"All student jumps must be completed between official sunrise and sunset. [NW]"

And tandem passengers are considered students. The [NW] means Non Waiver-able

Then how about those special demo at night/dusk tandems we've seen done? That was my point about the "special cases."


mjosparky  (D 5476)

May 10, 2005, 5:05 PM
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Re: [AggieDave] Status of night tandem jumps... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Then how about those special demo at night/dusk tandems we've seen done? That was my point about the "special cases."

I am just quoting the SIM.

You don't think there is any chance that someone would violate one of the BSR's do you?
TongueSmile

Sparky


ccq  (D 23345)

May 11, 2005, 10:09 PM
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Re: [AggieDave] Status of night tandem jumps... [In reply to] Can't Post

 
I hate to put on my official USPA hat because it makes me look funny being decorated with many golden stars and magic lightning bolts, but I can probably help here. I had a situation in my region where I had to inquire about this issue specifically. What came out of the S&T Committee and USPA Headquarters is that tandem jumps with students are classified as student jumps and thus prohibited from occurring at night (per the below BSR). Nothing in the BSR's specifically addresses the case where a licensed jumper is on the front of the tandem, thus it is technically "legal."

Tandem demos are whole separate ball of wax with the requisite BSR waivers and other such fun.

Hope that helps.

Cheers,
--Q
Pacific Regional Director

In reply to:
Quote:
2005 SIM: Sec. 2-1-E9

"All student jumps must be completed between official sunrise and sunset. [NW]"

And tandem passengers are considered students. The [NW] means Non Waiver-able

Then how about those special demo at night/dusk tandems we've seen done? That was my point about the "special cases."


AggieDave  (D License)

May 11, 2005, 11:35 PM
Post #17 of 78 (3586 views)
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Re: [ccq] Status of night tandem jumps... [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey, thanks for the "straight poop." Those little details have been sort of bugging me the past 2 years (since I got my TI, basically), but since it didn't effect me personally I never took the time to get the full info from the USPA. Thanks.Smile


livendive  (D 21415)

May 12, 2005, 8:55 AM
Post #18 of 78 (3547 views)
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Re: [Zenister] Status of night tandem jumps... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
a night tandem would seem like a waste of money to me... even as a licensed skydiver... the visuals are a big part of skydiving.. what are the chances a first time jumper is going to be aware enough to really recognize the limited sight picture they will get by doing a night jump?

What about for someone who has a slew of tandems and no interest in learning how to jump on their own? Hypothetically speaking of course.

Blues,
Dave


wuffo

May 12, 2005, 11:45 AM
Post #19 of 78 (3508 views)
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Re: [billbooth] Status of night tandem jumps... [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
There is little or no reason, or benefit, to take a newbie tandem student on a night jump.
I've talked to several instructors who have been forced by ASC in Cedartown to do tandems until midnight. This has been done many, many times at that dz. So I'd say if there's a benefit, it is that the dz can get as much money out of a day's jumping as possible.


rhys  (D 95)

Feb 1, 2010, 4:27 AM
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Re: [Travman] Status of night tandem jumps... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I can't help with the rules in the US, but the australian Op Regs are as follows
5.7.17. Night tandem jumps with a student who does not hold at least a Certificate "A" may be made only as display jumps by a tandem-master who has made at least 100 previous tandem descents as tandem-master, and in accordance with 5.7.16.

just came down from my first night tandem, it was awesome, the moon reflecing off the ocean, the lights of wollongong and is neighboring suburbs...

awesome.

All by the book too!


RIGGER160  (D 12345)

Feb 1, 2010, 3:30 PM
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Re: [ccq] Status of night tandem jumps... [In reply to] Can't Post

What defines a student?


VideoFly  (D 25621)

Feb 1, 2010, 4:43 PM
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Re: [Guru312] Status of night tandem jumps... [In reply to] Can't Post

Would night tandem jumps with a B or C license holder on the front count as night jumps toward their D license?


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Feb 1, 2010, 4:53 PM
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Re: [RIGGER160] Status of night tandem jumps... [In reply to] Can't Post

Buy USPA standards any Skydiver not yet licensed.

The "A" License Prof. Card signed off and stamped is "Official", one need not wait on the USPA plastic card to be in hand.

Matt


labrys  (D 29848)

Feb 1, 2010, 5:33 PM
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Re: [VideoFly] Status of night tandem jumps... [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Would night tandem jumps with a B or C license holder on the front count as night jumps toward their D license?
Quote:

Not for the solo Wink and it sounds like a really bad idea for a group jump unless there's a lighted drogue.


VideoFly  (D 25621)

Feb 1, 2010, 5:57 PM
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Re: [labrys] Status of night tandem jumps... [In reply to] Can't Post

Good points that I didn't think of.


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