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Giving advices here and WL hype

 

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phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

May 3, 2005, 3:30 PM
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Giving advices here and WL hype Can't Post

I have started Student Rig at 0.65:1 wingloading.



Quote:
I`m not sure if its a good idea to register or read here for a subA or A class(USPA) jumper. I can feel they are collecting fear and confusion here.

Don`t take offend, but recently "skygods" are giving full detailed description about everything instead of the short and polite redirect to own JM/coach/instructor.

My example: I have started jumping with my own gear at the WL that is not so highly recommended here.

I had 9 jumps with it and 8 of them was a perfect, soft and stand-up landing. 2nd was a sidewind with sliding on grass and having a grass stain. This was in the end of September.


The season has ended, I had nothing else to do just read here.

Just by reading here I`ve collected that amount of "knowledge" or you may call it fear that I did feared my first jump in the beginning April. I managed to lost all the little confidence that I`ve hardly collected.

I still have a healthy level of fear left after 12 jumps.

I think you might know that state of mind when you do practice EP 3+ times before jump out in every jump. When you still have the bad feeling every time that situation is to perfect to be true and staying on the edge until you get the packing area.....

Well done boys.......you have a success to plant fear in others mind. It`s really nice to save us not to commit those faults that you managed to gain experience.

edit: spelling


(This post was edited by phoenixlpr on May 3, 2005, 3:31 PM)


AggieDave  (D License)

May 3, 2005, 3:39 PM
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Re: [phoenixlpr] Giving advices here and WL hype [In reply to] Can't Post

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It`s really nice to save us not to commit those faults that you managed to gain experience.

Some of those faults that gained us that experience comes from watching friends die under flying canopies and watching other friends become blind and paralyzed for life under a good flying main.

Sorry you don't understand.


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

May 3, 2005, 3:46 PM
Post #3 of 65 (2389 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] Giving advices here and WL hype [In reply to] Can't Post

I hope you have read the rest too. I`ve expected this approach from you and from few others too.

Try to understand the point of someone who has less jumps and experience than you.

I don`t say that I have to make all mistakes, but the right emphasis from the experienced might make a big difference on the short moment of judgement.


justinb138  (B 28762)

May 3, 2005, 3:55 PM
Post #4 of 65 (2379 views)
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Re: [phoenixlpr] Giving advices here and WL hype [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
My example: I have started jumping with my own gear at the WL that is not so highly recommended here.

Not just not recommended here, but by the manufacturer as well.

In reply to:
Just by reading here I`ve collected that amount of "knowledge" or you may call it fear that I did feared my first jump in the beginning April. I managed to lost all the little confidence that I`ve hardly collected.


If you're not absolutely confident

I still have a healthy level of fear left after 12 jumps.

I think you might know that state of mind when you do practice EP 3+ times before jump out in every jump. When you still have the bad feeling every time that situation is to perfect to be true and staying on the edge until you get the packing area.....

Well done boys.......you have a success to plant fear in others mind. It`s really nice to save us not to commit those faults that you managed to gain experience.

edit: spelling

From a noob perspective, I fail to see your point. Could you please clarify what it is your trying to say?


AggieDave  (D License)

May 3, 2005, 3:58 PM
Post #5 of 65 (2375 views)
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Re: [phoenixlpr] Giving advices here and WL hype [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Try to understand the point of someone who has less jumps and experience than you.

I don`t say that I have to make all mistakes, but the right emphasis from the experienced might make a big difference on the short moment of judgement.

Oh trust me, I do. I was the worst when it came to the stereotype. You know the types, "fuck you, you don't know my skill, I'll fly it conservatively, I'm a safe canopy pilot." All of the cliches. All in all I got very lucky and was very lucky to have some experienced folks nudge me in the right directions to help keep me out of trouble. All in all though, overall I was lucky.

Why should those that come after that learn by luck? Well, the attitudes like my previous attitude will always be there, hopefully some will come around as I did before I was seriously hurt or killed.

Once you spend some time trying to help people, you find you're basically hitting your head against the wall. You reach a point in which, especially on the internet, you just toss the information out there and hope it sticks. On the DZ you'll spend more time with someone trying to help them really learn and gently point them in the right direction. On the 'net, though, those attitudes are less then a dime a dozen and you can only repeat yourself so often.Unsure


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

May 3, 2005, 4:00 PM
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Re: [justinb138] Giving advices here and WL hype [In reply to] Can't Post

Hkm. I was writing about the knowledge you may gain or in the Incidents forum by reading.... And I have given a not too difficult example....


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

May 3, 2005, 4:06 PM
Post #7 of 65 (2354 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] Giving advices here and WL hype [In reply to] Can't Post

I`m not totally healthy in this moment so you might consider this as an effect of fewer.

-There`s a new trend here to give pieces of advice to newbie instead of redirect.....
-The source of good judgement is not only the jump numbers........


AggieDave  (D License)

May 3, 2005, 4:20 PM
Post #8 of 65 (2340 views)
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Re: [phoenixlpr] Giving advices here and WL hype [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
-There`s a new trend here to give pieces of advice to newbie instead of redirect.....
-The source of good judgement is not only the jump numbers........

Then you haven't been paying attention to my posts. In dealing with WL questions for low time jumpers, I state "talk to your Instructors and/or your S&TA" as well as give a general opinion that errs on the side of very conservative.

You're right good judgement is not only the jump numbers, BUT generally speaking its a damned good indicator.


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

May 3, 2005, 4:24 PM
Post #9 of 65 (2333 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] Giving advices here and WL hype [In reply to] Can't Post

Are you the dev? il`s advocate? Wink

If my post is not about you why do you reply? Smile


kelpdiver  (B 7)

May 3, 2005, 4:30 PM
Post #10 of 65 (2327 views)
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Re: [phoenixlpr] Giving advices here and WL hype [In reply to] Can't Post

Who are you advocating for? I didn't see it in the other thread.

If the 'knowledge' or at least topics discussed here puts a little bit of fear in someone with 12 jumps who's done for the season (southern hemi, I presume), is that bad? Or unusual? It's a dangerous sport and the longer you're on the ground, the more you feel it. I was off 8 months and those first few back were nearly as intense as the first one or two.


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

May 3, 2005, 4:46 PM
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Re: [kelpdiver] Giving advices here and WL hype [In reply to] Can't Post

Is his/her fear "management" is our business?

Would you give any non-trivial advice to the same kind of jumper if he/she is not your student?


kelpdiver  (B 7)

May 3, 2005, 5:58 PM
Post #12 of 65 (2261 views)
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Re: [phoenixlpr] Giving advices here and WL hype [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Is his/her fear "management" is our business?

Would you give any non-trivial advice to the same kind of jumper if he/she is not your student?

By your posting, it appears that you believe so. It's hard to tell frankly because it's a bit hard to tell what that person is saying versus you.

Second part - depends on the Q. Mostly I commiserate, tell them it's a common problem, will get better with experience, try not to stay on the ground too long.


Premier skybytch  (D License)

May 3, 2005, 6:13 PM
Post #13 of 65 (2247 views)
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Re: [phoenixlpr] Giving advices here and WL hype [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I had 9 jumps with it and 8 of them was a perfect, soft and stand-up landing. 2nd was a sidewind with sliding on grass and having a grass stain.

So you had 8 perfect landings in good conditions, then when things changed you couldn't stand it up. Yeah, you're ready for that canopy. Crazy

You've already told us you had a problem landing it crosswind - a problem that could've been worse if you didn't have nice soft grass to land in. Can you land it downwind without injury (stand up not required, walking away is)? If you can't land your canopy into the wind standing up, crosswind standing up and downwind without injury then you are flying a canopy that is beyond your ability level. The fact that it didn't scare you before you spent time reading here and it does now could mean that you didn't know the risks you were taking when you bought it... and now you do.

In reply to:
Just by reading here I`ve collected that amount of "knowledge" or you may call it fear that I did feared my first jump in the beginning April. I managed to lost all the little confidence that I`ve hardly collected.

I still have a healthy level of fear left after 12 jumps.

Good. It's working.

At less than 200 jumps in four years (average 50 jumps a year). after a 6-7 month layoff, you should be scared of a 1.33 wingloading on your main (although if it were me I'd be more scared of the non-reinforced, older design and manufacture date reserve that you're loading at 1.36 - well above the 1.0 that the manufacturer said was the maximum suspended weight).

In reply to:
Don`t take offend, but recently "skygods" are giving full detailed description about everything instead of the short and polite redirect to own JM/coach/instructor.

Define "skygods." Is that anyone with more experience than you have giving advice you don't agree with?

btw, Dave is correct about him being scary when he had 200 jumps. I wasn't the only one here with money riding on when he was going to femur. He got lucky.

Don't rely on luck.

And please... if you're going to carry a reserve loaded that high, buy something built in the last decade that was designed to handle that loading.Unsure


mjosparky  (D 5476)

May 3, 2005, 6:19 PM
Post #14 of 65 (2243 views)
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Re: [phoenixlpr] Giving advices here and WL hype [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Is his/her fear "management" is our business?

Would you give any non-trivial advice to the same kind of jumper if he/she is not your student?

I think there might be a language problem that is causing a misunderstanding.

But one thing is for sure, you are jumping a reserve that is overloaded about 40 pounds (18.14 kilograms) above the manufacture’s recommended maximum weight. Now pointing this out to you might cause you some extra fear on you next few jumps and it damn well should.

I am sorry if this offends you but that 40 pounds (18.14 kilograms) and a little extra speed just might “cause death or serious injury”.

Sparky


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
May 3, 2005, 7:26 PM
Post #15 of 65 (2221 views)
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Re: [skybytch] Giving advices here and WL hype [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
btw, Dave is correct about him being scary when he had 200 jumps. I wasn't the only one here with money riding on when he was going to femur. He got lucky.

Yeah, I had money on him too. Hell, I still have money one me! Laugh

I've got 350+ jumps on the make and size canopy I jump. you better belive I was scared shitless for the first 10 or so jumps back this year. I fear my canopy on almost every jump. I've downwinded it after a hook turn and can still slide it out. I crosswind it all the time but I still am afraid of the point in which I'm loading my canopy.

Fear is a good thing, it keeps your ego in check.


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

May 3, 2005, 8:19 PM
Post #16 of 65 (2198 views)
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Re: [skybytch] Giving advices here and WL hype [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
So you had 8 perfect landings in good conditions, then when things changed you couldn't stand it up. Yeah, you're ready for that canopy. Crazy

Yeah. This is good judgement. I`ve tried that canopy for the 2nd time, make a minor fault and you say that I`m not read for that.

For the record I have tried a Merit170 recomended by my mentor. After having 4 broken lines I have landed with the Crikett 147, it was nice, soft and stand up.

BTW my WL is according local BSR.


jceman  (D 19212)

May 3, 2005, 8:22 PM
Post #17 of 65 (2194 views)
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Re: [phoenixlpr] Giving advices here and WL hype [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
So you had 8 perfect landings in good conditions, then when things changed you couldn't stand it up. Yeah, you're ready for that canopy. Crazy

Yeah. This is good judgement. I`ve tried that canopy for the 2nd time, make a minor fault and you say that I`m not read for that.

For the record I have tried a Merit170 recomended by my mentor. After having 4 broken lines I have landed with the Crikett 147, it was nice, soft and stand up.

BTW my WL is according local BSR.

On your main? Seems like it.

On your reserve? I doubt it.


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

May 3, 2005, 8:32 PM
Post #18 of 65 (2188 views)
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Re: [jceman] Giving advices here and WL hype [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
On your main? Seems like it.

On your reserve? I doubt it.

Hm. New grip Smile.

Have you ever made a bad decision?

The gear was recommended by my mentor. I have not done my homework.After the incident I have described previously I had to buy it anyway. Reserve was packed and I have received the papers after I have bought it.

I was flying worse reserve than the Crikett.


(This post was edited by phoenixlpr on May 3, 2005, 8:35 PM)


Premier skybytch  (D License)

May 3, 2005, 9:10 PM
Post #19 of 65 (2178 views)
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Re: [phoenixlpr] Giving advices here and WL hype [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I have landed with the Crikett 147, it was nice, soft and stand up.

The landing isn't the primary issue - not that it isn't an issue (think you could land it nice, soft and stand up in no wind at sunset... into a backyard because the spot sucked?).

The major issue is opening a reserve of that type and age loaded that highly at terminal velocity.

Off the top of my head I know of two people who had terminal openings on reserves they were loading beyond the manufacturer's maximum suspended weight. Both reserves blew up. One of the jumpers died, the other was in pain for quite some time.

But hey, why go by what the manufacturer says? I mean, what would they know about how heavily one of their canopies can be loaded without blowing up?


justinb138  (B 28762)

May 3, 2005, 9:14 PM
Post #20 of 65 (2175 views)
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Re: [skybytch] Giving advices here and WL hype [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
But hey, why go by what the manufacturer says? I mean, what would they know about how heavily one of their canopies can be loaded without blowing up?

Geez, you act like they actually drop test them or something...SlyTongue


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

May 3, 2005, 9:18 PM
Post #21 of 65 (2174 views)
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Re: [skybytch] Giving advices here and WL hype [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
The major issue is opening a reserve of that type and age loaded that highly at terminal velocity

You played with my numbers before. What is the arerage chance of a reserve ride? 1:1000? How would it go with my jump numers in the next 6,5 years?

Quote:
But hey, why go by what the manufacturer says? I mean, what would they know about how heavily one of their canopies can be loaded without blowing up?

I`ve written the reasons above.


Premier skybytch  (D License)

May 3, 2005, 9:22 PM
Post #22 of 65 (2170 views)
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Re: [phoenixlpr] Giving advices here and WL hype [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What is the arerage chance of a reserve ride? 1:1000? How would it go with my jump numers in the next 6,5 years?

Sorry. Didn't realize you weren't planning on using your reserve again. Carry on.

My head always feels better when I stop beating it against a brick wall. Why is that?


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

May 3, 2005, 9:27 PM
Post #23 of 65 (2169 views)
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Re: [skybytch] Giving advices here and WL hype [In reply to] Can't Post

I was not even planning to use it for the first time either.

I know that is my last chance. If my rigger is telling its time to retire it I`ll do so and buy a proper one.


genitor  (D License)

May 3, 2005, 9:39 PM
Post #24 of 65 (2162 views)
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Re: [phoenixlpr] Giving advices here and WL hype [In reply to] Can't Post

She IS a rigger and knows a lot about skydiving gear. I'd listen to what she has to say.

$900 (or less, if you're buying used) is a small price to pay for safety and peace of mind should you ever need to start pulling handles.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
May 3, 2005, 9:47 PM
Post #25 of 65 (2156 views)
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Re: [phoenixlpr] Giving advices here and WL hype [In reply to] Can't Post

>What is the arerage chance of a reserve ride? 1:1000?

1 in 300 per Paragear.


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