Forums: Skydiving: Skydiving History & Trivia:
10-way speed star

 


adietkin  (D 19535)

May 3, 2005, 5:35 AM
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10-way speed star Can't Post

hi
where i can find the 10-way speed star competition rules on the net?
thank's


darkwing  (D 4164)

May 3, 2005, 7:07 AM
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Re: [adietkin] 10-way speed star [In reply to] Can't Post

The "Skydivers Competition Manual" is available from USPA

Edit to add some specifics from the SCM:

(Note: for non-Nationals competitions it is common to have variations on these rules, esp exit altitude and working time, but also "bonus points" for other trickery after the speed formation is done.

D. 10-Way:
1. Each jump is made from 11,000 feet.
2. Working time starts when the first competitor crosses the starting line and stops when the formation is complete.
3. Each formation must be completed within 35 seconds and held for a minimum of five seconds.
4. Total working time is 40 seconds.

B. 10-Way Exit Procedures:
1. A line is marked on the floor of a side-door aircraft from the front edge of the door to the opposite fuselage wall aft of the rear edge of the door; and for tailgate aircraft, the line is drawn five feet forward of the tailgate edge and parallel to the edge of the tailgate.


a. The videographer must record an image of the line on the floor prior to the team exiting the aircraft.
b. The team must line up behind the line, and no members of the team, except the videographer, may come in contact with any portion of the aircraft on the door side or tailgate side of the line prior to
commencing exit.
2. After exit, two unlinked jumpers must initiate all formations after completely passing through the door with the remaining jumpers
converging on those two jumpers.
3. Any other team(s) in the aircraft must not interfere with the exiting team.

Scoring
B. 10-Way:
1. Each team receives a score (in seconds) for the completed 10-Way formation that is held for a minimum of five seconds.
a. This five seconds must fall within working time (i.e., the last grip must be completed within 35 seconds).
b. If a team does not complete a 10-Way formation, it will receive the maximum score of 40 seconds.
2. The score for each jump is computed by averaging the three scores to one one-hundredth (.01) of a second.
3. It is the responsibility of the team to clearly present the correct scoring formation.


(This post was edited by darkwing on May 3, 2005, 7:43 AM)


mjosparky  (D 5476)

May 3, 2005, 4:53 PM
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Re: [adietkin] 10-way speed star [In reply to] Can't Post

Real 10 way rules:

Small door Beech.
No show exit.
No grips.
First out, base and pin.

Time started with first movement in the door, ended when last man broke in.

Last but not least, "If you ain't cheaten, you ain't tryin"Tongue

Sparky


darkwing  (D 4164)

May 3, 2005, 5:27 PM
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Re: [mjosparky] 10-way speed star [In reply to] Can't Post

In spite of my lengthy post of the current rules, my heart is with Sparky's version. Real skydivers do 10-way from very small doors. I wish they would go to a single-file exit with no grips allowed. I'm liberal though, I don't care where the base + pin are in the lineup.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

May 3, 2005, 5:58 PM
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Re: [darkwing] 10-way speed star [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In spite of my lengthy post of the current rules, my heart is with Sparky's version. Real skydivers do 10-way from very small doors. I wish they would go to a single-file exit with no grips allowed. I'm liberal though, I don't care where the base + pin are in the lineup.

Heretic! A curse on you!Tongue

Sparky


wartload

May 3, 2005, 8:16 PM
Post #6 of 17 (1697 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] 10-way speed star [In reply to] Can't Post

And thus the invention of the "Potato Count". It was actually a really practical way to get a fairly large crowd moving through a fairly small door in a short period of time.


markd_nscr986  (C 11969)

May 4, 2005, 6:44 AM
Post #7 of 17 (1672 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] 10-way speed star [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Real 10 way rules:

Small door Beech.
No show exit.
No grips.
First out, base and pin.





At a "Southwest Conference " speed star meet( many moons agoWink) thats the way I remember it ( or maybe we had Twin OttersBlushI can't remember for sure)....we had some sub 20 second times and still placed secondShocked

Not to bad for a pick-up team

At a Zhills speed star meet,with another pick-up team out of DC3's we took 22nd out of 100+ teams
Sometimes if we got it high enough,after holding it for the required time we would sequence it once or twice as altitude permittedSmile


kallend  (D 23151)

May 4, 2005, 2:34 PM
Post #8 of 17 (1642 views)
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Re: [darkwing] 10-way speed star [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In spite of my lengthy post of the current rules, my heart is with Sparky's version. Real skydivers do 10-way from very small doors. I wish they would go to a single-file exit with no grips allowed. I'm liberal though, I don't care where the base + pin are in the lineup.

The current USPA rules with the line drawn across the floor back from the door were supposed to eliminate chunked exits, but last year's winning team managed to chunk out 8 or 9 anyhow, if I recall correctly.

Single file is good, and the door frame is still hard.


RogerRamjet  (D License)

May 4, 2005, 2:44 PM
Post #9 of 17 (1638 views)
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Re: [markd_nscr986] 10-way speed star [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
Real 10 way rules:

Small door Beech.
No show exit.
No grips.
First out, base and pin.



At a "Southwest Conference " speed star meet( many moons agoWink) thats the way I remember it ( or maybe we had Twin OttersBlushI can't remember for sure)....we had some sub 20 second times and still placed secondShocked

Not to bad for a pick-up team

At a Zhills speed star meet,with another pick-up team out of DC3's we took 22nd out of 100+ teams
Sometimes if we got it high enough,after holding it for the required time we would sequence it once or twice as altitude permittedSmile

Z-Hills, now those were the BIG meets in the mid '70s. I believe it was 1975 or 76, I was on Hoopers 10 man (sorry ... way) team and the Deland 16 and 20 man (way) teams.

I was 9th on Hoopers team and we took 4th with 105 teams.

I was 16th and 20th respectively on the Deland Teams and we won both events with over 50 sixteen man teams and about 20 twenty man teams.

I have two photos that Carl Boenish took of the 16 man winning team, a 16 man diamond and 16 man snowflake. I'll post them in the photo area one of these days (have to scan them, just have prints).


RogerRamjet  (D License)

May 4, 2005, 2:45 PM
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Re: [RogerRamjet] 10-way speed star [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh, and we practiced out of the Lockheed L10E, about the same size door as the D18 Beach.


markd_nscr986  (C 11969)

May 4, 2005, 3:58 PM
Post #11 of 17 (1630 views)
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Re: [RogerRamjet] 10-way speed star [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I was on Hoopers 10 man (sorry ... way) team



LaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh


Old-timer....Old-TimerTongue


bob.dino  (E 2185)

May 4, 2005, 5:59 PM
Post #12 of 17 (1622 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] 10-way speed star [In reply to] Can't Post

The Aussie rules are pretty similar, though for some silly reason they don't mandate a small door Beech Crazy.

Excerpt:

1.1 Exit Altitude: 8,000 feet.

1.2 Working time: 25 seconds.

2.1 The Objective: To complete a 10-Way star formation in the fastest possible time.

2.2 Number of Rounds: Three (minimum of one to complete the event).

3.1 Scoring Formation: is the largest star formation which is completed within the allotted working time of each round. A scoring formation need not be perfectly symmetrical, but it must be performed in a controlled manner.

3.2 Exit: The exit must be made from within the outer fuselage line of the door on the aircraft, that is, a "no show" exit. Breach of this rule within 10 seconds of actual exit (by either a team member and/or part of their equipment) incurs a penalty of 5 seconds per "show". Furthermore, each team member shall exit separately, that is, a "no grip" exit. Breach of this rule will incur a penalty of 5 seconds per grip.

4. Scoring: One point will be awarded for each person in the scoring formation. Completion time will be awarded for a 10-Way star formation held for a minimum of 3 seconds (holding time may run over working time). Formations are defined as being correctly completed when they have been evaluated as "correct" by at least half of the evaluating Judges.

5. Determination of Champions: The 10-Way speed star event champion is the team with the highest number of 10-Way stars with an awarded completion time. If two or more teams have an equal number of 10-Way star formations, placings will be determined by (in order of priority);
(a) the lowest accumulated time for completed 10-Way star formations,
(b) fastest time of any completed 10-Way star formation.
Further placings will be determined by the highest number of accumulated points.

6. Composition of Teams: Each team may comprise 11 team members, any 10 of which may participate in any one jump (plus freefall videographers as necessary).



RogerRamjet  (D License)

May 4, 2005, 6:42 PM
Post #13 of 17 (1619 views)
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Re: [markd_nscr986] 10-way speed star [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I was on Hoopers 10 man (sorry ... way) team



LaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh


Old-timer....Old-TimerTongue

Yeah, so??? If I put the years since I made my first jump, it would be 32 to your 31, so I'm thinking we're both Old-Timers, no? Wink


skybill  (D 6009)

May 4, 2005, 7:48 PM
Post #14 of 17 (1610 views)
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Re: [adietkin] 10-way speed star [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi a-d,
I go with Sparky on the rules. "Add Bell helmets, Pioneer suits, French or combat boots, Gutter Gear, (wh PC's or Cheapo's) and Base Pin have to weigh at least 225lbs. (No Gear-naked!!) That would give you at least a quarter-ton BASE!! The old daze at Otay, that was Lorenzo Lizaraga and Keith Cassarth!!!!

SPEED!! Was the name of the game, none of this fly your position in the line up!! Occasionally, Art and his at that time Girlfriend Sylvia would be in the back of the bus and I'd her her say to him right before the count,"BURN YA'!!!!!" and out we'd go!! (I was usually in the middle of the line up back then) Sylvia would burn Art to the star and man would he be pissed for the rest of th day!!! To add insult to injury, someone would usually say,"Hey Art, 'ya let a chick burn 'ya hahahahhaha!" Where were you in '72??? Or was it 73?? The 70's were a blur and don't even ask what the 60's looked like?? Anyone remember jumping thru a "Purple Haze??

As far as rules go, (I don't know if they post any but the history is there) go to www.airtrash.com and log on to Blast from the past and read about the beginning of RW by Pat Works SCS-1, it says it all!!


(This post was edited by skybill on May 4, 2005, 7:55 PM)


RogerRamjet  (D License)

May 5, 2005, 6:25 AM
Post #15 of 17 (1572 views)
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Re: [skybill] 10-way speed star [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
SPEED!! Was the name of the game, none of this fly your position in the line up!! Occasionally, Art and his at that time Girlfriend Sylvia would be in the back of the bus and I'd her her say to him right before the count,"BURN YA'!!!!!" and out we'd go!! (I was usually in the middle of the line up back then) Sylvia would burn Art to the star and man would he be pissed for the rest of th day!!!

It's not a good feeling, being burned (chick or not). I was originally 4th on the Ten High team, but Hooper switched with me, so he was 4th and I was 9th. He said because I was fast which was good for my ego Smile

Only, Steve Fugleburg was 10th and for the next three months, he burned me into the star everytime. Oh, I was fairly fast in a dive, but the transition from the door to the dive and the flare to docking was weak to say the least. I worked on all these things (I had a great role model in Steve who was usually right in front of me on the way down). Eventually, I got to be very fast earning my nickname of Roger Ramjet on large star attempts where I could outrun pretty much anyone on the way down.

One day just before a Turkey meet at Z-Hills, we are organizing for a big load and the organizer puts Roger Nelson and Roger Clark together at the end of the load. We introduce ourselves to one another and he says "hey, you want to do a pre-star?" I say "what's a pre-star?" and he tells me and I say "great, let's do it!" We exit and he pins me right out the door. As we break to head for the formation below, I think "now I'm going to burn this guy!" I get into my best diving position, arms tight to my sides, feet pressed together, steering with slight shoulder movements and I'm really moving. About this time I look over and Roger is right next to me! He has the same expression on his face I have on mine (surprise)... We were "fast" friends from then on. He wrote about the pre-star thing in Pat Works "United We Fall" book which I didn't even know about until he was killed and I was looking around the web for stuff related to him! If you want to take a look, it's near the bottom of chapter 5 titled Pre-Stars? "Hey Man, You're Late..." at http://www.cs.fiu.edu/~esj/uwf/uwf5.htm

He never told me even though we kept in contact on and off for 30 years right up until a week or two before he was killed.

He like speed too Smile Very fast in a dive and in all the transitions!


markd_nscr986  (C 11969)

May 5, 2005, 6:52 AM
Post #16 of 17 (1565 views)
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Re: [RogerRamjet] 10-way speed star [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Yeah, so??? If I put the years since I made my first jump, it would be 32 to your 31, so I'm thinking we're both Old-Timers, no?


D'oh!Shocked


LaughLaughLaughLaugh


RogerRamjet  (D License)

May 5, 2005, 7:07 AM
Post #17 of 17 (1559 views)
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Re: [markd_nscr986] 10-way speed star [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Yeah, so??? If I put the years since I made my first jump, it would be 32 to your 31, so I'm thinking we're both Old-Timers, no?


D'oh!Shocked


LaughLaughLaughLaugh

I wonder if we've met, you ever make it out to the Turkey meets at Z-Hills in the 70's?

I was the loft rigger for two years in 73/74 and jumped there regularly until about 78 and on and off until 1980 when I quit.



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