Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
Crossfire or Safire? Any comments?

 


pyke  (D 26387)

May 14, 2001, 1:59 PM
Post #1 of 13 (1604 views)
Shortcut
Crossfire or Safire? Any comments? Can't Post

Hey all, I was talking to my DZO this weekend and he was demoing a Crossfire. He normally jumps a Safire and loves it, but said that the Crossfire was a much sweeter opening and performing canopy. He specifically mentioned the differences in the cell openings and bracings and how it helped the performance.

I guess my question is does anyone have any information/comments that would help me decide on which would be better. I am not in the market to buy a new one now, but in a year or so, when I want to go with a smaller more higher performance canopy, which would be better, Safire or Crossfire?

P.S. I am not opposed to Sabres, but I am partial to Icarus because they were designed in NZ, so you can leave your Sabre praises out...if you don't mind.

Cheers,


Kia Kaha,
PykeTongue
NZPF A-2584


OmriMon  (C 32176)

May 14, 2001, 3:19 PM
Post #2 of 13 (1592 views)
Shortcut
Re: Crossfire or Safire? Any comments? [In reply to] Can't Post

what type canopy r u jumping now?

Free Skies,
Omri Crazy


weid14  (D 20292)

May 14, 2001, 4:47 PM
Post #3 of 13 (1580 views)
Shortcut
Re: Crossfire or Safire? Any comments? [In reply to] Can't Post

I've got both a Safire (149) and a crossfire(139)... all things being equal I would hands down buy a Crossfire before anything else right now. Sabres really aren't in this class at all (not the existing model anyway). If you are a competent canopy pilot, check out a crossfire. Much more powerful flare, soft (very long!) opening, and pretty well behaved for a high P canopy. I really enjoy flying mine.



cyberskydive  (C 28534)

May 14, 2001, 9:19 PM
Post #4 of 13 (1560 views)
Shortcut
Re: Crossfire or Safire? Any comments? [In reply to] Can't Post

HEY bro! Demo a Safire at the boogie and play with it, it'll be nuttin like that fury (or raven) or my old falcon-LOL, but its alot more forgiving thatn a more elliptical crossfire type canopy would be to start. Hell then if you feel up to it try a larger size crossfire, they dont make em super big though, but you know bill will have them at some time or another for you to demo whenever you feel the need!

D.Chisolm C-28534
webmaster@sunraydesigns.com
http://www.sunraydesigns.com


pyke  (D 26387)

May 15, 2001, 10:21 AM
Post #5 of 13 (1520 views)
Shortcut
Re: Crossfire or Safire? Any comments? [In reply to] Can't Post

I also failed to mention...

I have only really jumped squares, having trained on student gear, visited a Raven for a while, bought a Fury, and am now back on a Raven.

Kind of a moot point, but would you suggest going to a Safire first, or just learning on a bigger Crossfire?


Kia Kaha,
PykeTongue
NZPF A-2584


freaksister  (B 25147)

May 15, 2001, 10:37 AM
Post #6 of 13 (1517 views)
Shortcut
Re: Crossfire or Safire? Any comments? [In reply to] Can't Post

I was thinking the same thing Cyber was: Considering what you have jumped so far, a Crossfire might be too high-performance. I think Cyber has a good idea, demo a Safire this weekend and see how much different it is from what you are used to. It will probably handle a lot differently.

Sis

"What we're all really seeking is something where we can feel the rapture of being alive."J.Campbell


jaybird  (D 24977)

May 15, 2001, 8:44 PM
Post #7 of 13 (1474 views)
Shortcut
Re: Crossfire or Safire? Any comments? [In reply to] Can't Post

my first canopy (which i fly now) has been a crossfire 149. i am about 190 out the door. when i was ordering this canopy i borrowed several different canopies to try out, while downsizing at a comfortable pace. That is truely what it comes down too. what are you comfortable with in flying, and landing. i like the crossfire, it is very quick, and incredible surfs(without a hook turn, i dont do those). and the openings are great. try to demo some canopies as others have mentioned, that way you can get a feel for what you like in each and the size you are comfortable with.

safe skies

jaybird



freeflyguy  (D 24207)

May 17, 2001, 6:12 PM
Post #8 of 13 (1388 views)
Shortcut
Re: Crossfire or Safire? Any comments? [In reply to] Can't Post

I suppose I could drivel some about this.

I went from 170 Sabre to a 139 Safire. I agree with those that say you should master a canopy and be able to fly it to it's max, before moving to a higher performance, or smaller canopy. I don't think you would have to go to a crossfire class canopy to have a ball, and get into something that will challenge your skill, for a long time. I love my Saf, and am still learning it's dive and turn charactaristics, after 70 jumps on it. I believe I will still easily be enjoying it a couple hundred jumps from now. If you where to get into a wild a canopy, one that turned with the slightest harness movement, or whatever. It could take away from you enjoyment of the sport, and reduce your safety factor. There is always time for those kind of canopies later. If you are around to use them.

My thoughts.



Kris  (D 26033)

May 17, 2001, 9:37 PM
Post #9 of 13 (1376 views)
Shortcut
Re: Crossfire or Safire? Any comments? [In reply to] Can't Post

Pyke,

Another thing to keep in mind (besides the margin of error you are giving up and an increased wing-loading) is that ellipticals generally aren't worth it until you get to higher wing loadings.

The crossfire was on my list of canopies to check out (until I found out about the HeatWave & the Cobalt) so I called Icarus and the guy I spoke with (Ian?) pretty much let me know that the Crossfire doesn't start getting into Icarus's desired performance area until about 1.4:1 and right now 1.25:1 - 1.3:1 is where I personally feel most comfortable.

I don't know your canopy piloting style, experience or anything else so make sure you also check with someone knowledgeable and trusted at your own DZ to help you with your canopy selection.

Good luck with the canopy search,

Kris




mikefarmer  (D 19948)

May 18, 2001, 3:09 PM
Post #10 of 13 (1344 views)
Shortcut
Re: Crossfire or Safire? Any comments? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Another thing to keep in mind (besides the margin of error you are giving up and an increased wing-loading) is that ellipticals generally aren't worth it until you get to higher wing loadings.
Yeah, what Kris said. There seems to be an idea that since it has pretty much been determined that ellipticals are better airfoils than squares, everybody should jump one. I disagree. I do not have thousands of jumps, and do not consider myself to be any kind of an expert, but I have to throw in my two cents in the interests of safety. I've been in this sport for about 6 years. My first rig was a Vector II and a Sabre 170. Stilettos were state of the art, and Batwings were fringe. 6 years later, I am selling my Sabre 150 for a crossfire/cobalt/vengeance(whichever I like better when the demo's get here.) I load my Sabre at about 1.65, and just now feel like I can fly that canopy in any situation that might be necessary. I truly believe that a skilled pilot can surf a Sabre, Tri, or EVEN an Esprit farther than an average pilot can an elliptical, not to mention more safely. (FYI, I am jumping a PD-253R 7-cell until I buy a new main, and LOVING it.) Ellipticals ARE better wings, look at paragliders. If we could get a paraglider to deploy reliably, I bet they would surf for a mile. BUT, a better wing doesn't mean a wing for everyone. WE ARE ALL RESPONSIBLE FOR OURSELVES, and 98.5% of the time, a jumper won't get hurt with a canopy he/she can't fly to it's extremes (full brakes, or deep in the corner, or stalling out at 50 feet because of a dust devil.) That's your choice, but a square canopy may be more forgiving due to its LOWER PERFORMANCE. Sorry about the lecture, and remember....IT'S YOUR CHOICE, thank God!

Mike

Hey, I'm not packed,
what's in that one?
Never mind, I'll jump it!


cdunham

May 18, 2001, 5:07 PM
Post #11 of 13 (1339 views)
Shortcut
Re: Crossfire or Safire? Any comments? [In reply to] Can't Post

Mike,

Interesting juxtaposition of your posting and your signature.

Sorry, couldn't let it go. Smile

Carl



mikefarmer  (D 19948)

May 18, 2001, 9:28 PM
Post #12 of 13 (1331 views)
Shortcut
Re: Crossfire or Safire? Any comments? [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, I thought about ixnaying the signature, but then, like I said, It's your choice! And I've jumped about every type of square/eliptical around. Most of these jumps I was not using the best judgment, but that's how you learn so you can lecture others. Man, I did sound kinda condescending. Sorry. Just my opinion.

And yes.........F*^& IT! I'll Jump it!

Mike

Hey, I'm not packed,
what's in that one?
Never mind, I'll jump it!


Grogs  (D 24265)

May 21, 2001, 7:38 AM
Post #13 of 13 (1285 views)
Shortcut
Re: Crossfire or Safire? Any comments? [In reply to] Can't Post

This is pretty funny. I'm actually pondering the same question myself. I won a certificate for 35% off an Icarus canopy this weekend, so I know who's going to be making my next canopy. Smile I've been jumping a Silhouette for the last 100 jumps or so, and from what I've seen/heard the Safire is a similar canopy so I'm leaning towards the Crossfire. I talked to the PEC dealer who was on our Dropzone this weekend and he pretty much told me the same thing about the Crossfire as has been mentioned earlier, i.e. load it around 1.4 or so to get good performance out of it.




Forums : Skydiving : Gear and Rigging

 


Search for (options)