Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Video: Poor seperation after break off.

 

First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 Next page Last page  View All

SuperKat  (C 34563)

Apr 28, 2005, 11:31 AM
Post #1 of 92 (2613 views)
Shortcut
Video: Poor seperation after break off. Can't Post

Here's a video of a 3 way jump. At breakoff, I was supposed to stay in place while the other jumpsuit guy tracks one direction and the yellow jumpsuit guy tracks the opposite direction. I was filming yellow jumpsuit guy's track. Therefore, I was supposed to pull in place. Well, it didn't quite turn out that way.Unsure Yellow jumpsuit guy tracked away just fine. I successfully taped him tracking away while maintaining my place and heading.Cool Other jumpsuit guy didn't even track away and opened right next to me.

So the question is: Do you think we're dangerously close to eachother upon opening or not? Pirate

Here's the vid: http://www.superkatnyc.com/tooclose.htm


(This post was edited by SuperKat on Apr 28, 2005, 11:33 AM)


Brains  (D License)

Apr 28, 2005, 11:34 AM
Post #2 of 92 (2599 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SuperKat] Video: Poor seperation after break off. [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Do you think we're dangerously close to eachother upon opening or not?

YES!!!Shocked An of heading by one or both fo you could have very easily ended VERY badlyCrazy


nicknitro71  (D 26704)

Apr 28, 2005, 11:35 AM
Post #3 of 92 (2597 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SuperKat] Video: Poor seperation after break off. [In reply to] Can't Post

You really have to ask the question?

I think you guys were very, very lucky.


AndyMan  (D 25698)

Apr 28, 2005, 11:36 AM
Post #4 of 92 (2594 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SuperKat] Video: Poor seperation after break off. [In reply to] Can't Post

Anytime a jumper doesn't track at the end of the skydive, they're putting the cameramans life in danger. As a video guy, I am CONSTANTLY harping on RW people to track long and far, whether they deserve the lecture or not.

_Am


SuperKat  (C 34563)

Apr 28, 2005, 11:53 AM
Post #5 of 92 (2568 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Brains] Video: Poor seperation after break off. [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
YES!!!Shocked An of heading by one or both fo you could have very easily ended VERY badly

Man, you have no idea how many times I thought about that. Whew!Crazy


Praetorian  (B 27234)

Apr 28, 2005, 11:54 AM
Post #6 of 92 (2562 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SuperKat] Video: Poor seperation after break off. [In reply to] Can't Post

did everyone know the plan on you staying and them tracking? if yes ... PLAN THE JUMP>> JUMP THE PLAN ... man the ASS CHEWING I would have given him on the groundPiratePirate

Edit to add ... and the second guessing of myself as to thinking more of the shot than my safey that was supposed to be coverd by the plan ... but I'd still wonder if it was my fault in some way


(This post was edited by Praetorian on Apr 28, 2005, 11:56 AM)


SuperKat  (C 34563)

Apr 28, 2005, 11:55 AM
Post #7 of 92 (2561 views)
Shortcut
Re: [nicknitro71] Video: Poor seperation after break off. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
You really have to ask the question?

I think you guys were very, very lucky.

I only ask because I told the dude about this problem and I even showed him the video. He thought that we weren't that close. So I don't want to be a righteous prick and make judgements first. That's why I'm asking for opinions.


nicknitro71  (D 26704)

Apr 28, 2005, 11:58 AM
Post #8 of 92 (2551 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SuperKat] Video: Poor seperation after break off. [In reply to] Can't Post

I did not mean to come across so harsh.

Yes something very wrong happed in the jump and you guys got very lucky.

Next time make sure evrybody knows what to do, not just you.


Hooknswoop  (D License)

Apr 28, 2005, 12:00 PM
Post #9 of 92 (2548 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SuperKat] Video: Poor seperation after break off. [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
He thought that we weren't that close.

What the hell does he consider close then? he didn't stick the plan, putting you both at risk. He either doesn't want to admit how close you two were or doesn't comprehend it. Either way he is a dnager to himself and others.

Derek


SuperKat  (C 34563)

Apr 28, 2005, 12:04 PM
Post #10 of 92 (2536 views)
Shortcut
Re: [AndyMan] Video: Poor seperation after break off. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Anytime a jumper doesn't track at the end of the skydive, they're putting the cameramans life in danger. As a video guy, I am CONSTANTLY harping on RW people to track long and far, whether they deserve the lecture or not.

_Am

This guy obviously has problems. This is the 2nd time he's done it to me. This time was the closest. The other time he flew past me at 125mph, directly in front of me but he was a bit further. Still gave me the shits though. I've told him numerous times about this but he doesn't think he was that close. Luckily for me, it's a mistake I can walk away from. I will have to lecture him together with a JM about this. It's a tad bit awkward because he's my buddy and I don't want to sound like a preaching prick. I've already brought it to his attention twice. I even mentioned what could have happened if we collided or if I had opened first and he fell 125mph on me or if our canopies collided and what not. He's shrugging it off like it's nothing. I guess 3 strikes and your out so I'll have to do something about it and not let it get to that point. I wouldn't want anything happening to any of us in the future.


nicknitro71  (D 26704)

Apr 28, 2005, 12:09 PM
Post #11 of 92 (2521 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SuperKat] Video: Poor seperation after break off. [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I guess 3 strikes and your out

In skydiving it only takes one to be out.


SuperKat  (C 34563)

Apr 28, 2005, 12:10 PM
Post #12 of 92 (2516 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Praetorian] Video: Poor seperation after break off. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
did everyone know the plan on you staying and them tracking? if yes ... PLAN THE JUMP>> JUMP THE PLAN ... man the ASS CHEWING I would have given him on the groundPiratePirate

Yes, we dirt dived 4 times for this jump. We even discussed it on the plane that everyone was supposed to track away and that I was pulling in place.

In reply to:
Edit to add ... and the second guessing of myself as to thinking more of the shot than my safey that was supposed to be coverd by the plan ... but I'd still wonder if it was my fault in some way
I did too. However, I carried out my part of the plan and stayed in place and pulled in place. I guess mistakes just happen. Thank goodness it wasn't a fatal mistake.


SuperKat  (C 34563)

Apr 28, 2005, 12:19 PM
Post #13 of 92 (2503 views)
Shortcut
Re: [nicknitro71] Video: Poor seperation after break off. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I did not mean to come across so harsh.
Not harsh at all.

In reply to:
Yes something very wrong happed in the jump and you guys got very lucky.
Tell me about it. I thank my God everyday for letting me live.

In reply to:
Next time make sure evrybody knows what to do, not just you.
We always do. His problem is that he's not aware of his surroundings and what his body is doing. He's got a lot of jumps, twice more than I have but he has less common sense and less reflex reaction time. I don't know......I don't want to paint a bad picture of the guy. Unsure I'm just glad that I'm going to be serious with my 4 way RW team and only jump with them from now on. Cool


SuperKat  (C 34563)

Apr 28, 2005, 12:23 PM
Post #14 of 92 (2499 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Hooknswoop] Video: Poor seperation after break off. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What the hell does he consider close then? he didn't stick the plan, putting you both at risk. He either doesn't want to admit how close you two were or doesn't comprehend it. Either way he is a dnager to himself and others.
Derek

I agree. I'll just talk with him and a JM together. Maybe we all can think level headed and reason well all together. He just needs to work on his skydiving common sense, be aware of his surroundings and be more alert to probable danger.


freefalle  (D 27777)

Apr 28, 2005, 12:30 PM
Post #15 of 92 (2485 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SuperKat] Video: Poor seperation after break off. [In reply to] Can't Post

 


In reply to:
In reply to:
This guy obviously has problems. This is the 2nd time he's done it to me. This time was the closest. The other time he flew past me at 125mph, directly in front of me but he was a bit further. Still gave me the shits though. I've told him numerous times about this but he doesn't think he was that close. Luckily for me, it's a mistake I can walk away from. I will have to lecture him together with a JM about this. It's a tad bit awkward because he's my buddy and I don't want to sound like a preaching prick. I've already brought it to his attention twice. I even mentioned what could have happened if we collided or if I had opened first and he fell 125mph on me or if our canopies collided and what not. He's shrugging it off like it's nothing. I guess 3 strikes and your out so I'll have to do something about it and not let it get to that point. I wouldn't want anything happening to any of us in the future.

I don't mean to sound like an ass, but I might. After reading this post twice, it seems to me that you were already aware that this skydiver has poor tracking habits. Do you think you could have dealt with this situation differently? From the appearance of your video, you were shooting on level or inside video. Knowing that this skydiver doesn't track very well, would it have served you better to plan the dive so that all THREE of you tracked in seperate directions. Additionally, During the breakoff could you see him tracking away while videoing the other skydiver? If not, do you not think it would have been in the best intrest of safety to watch the skydiver you had concerns about in order to ensure that you had proper seperation? My thought is had you been watching him, and noticed that his tracking was not allowing for proper seperation, you could have turned and tracked to allow for proper seperation. YES, plan the dive and dive the plan but think about safety. If especially at breakoff. it is customary for the camera flyer to pull in place, but GENERALLY on the skydives when the camera flyer pulls in place, he is above the formation and deploys at breakoff not at the same altitude as the formation.

Just my thoughts for what they are worth


SuperKat  (C 34563)

Apr 28, 2005, 12:36 PM
Post #16 of 92 (2474 views)
Shortcut
Re: [nicknitro71] Video: Poor seperation after break off. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In skydiving it only takes one to be out.
Darn...well said and understood. Thank goodness this is something that I learned from, even if it wasn't my mistake. At least I experienced it, didn't get hurt by it and I learned from it. From now on, I'll do exactly what AndyMan said. Lecture them about it even if they need it or not....Crazy


(This post was edited by SuperKat on Apr 28, 2005, 2:31 PM)


arlo  (D License)

Apr 28, 2005, 12:39 PM
Post #17 of 92 (2466 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SuperKat] Video: Poor seperation after break off. [In reply to] Can't Post

something looks a little squirrely about the section of video that shows your risers after deployment. not sure if it's from the "moisture" on the lens or what. did you edit out part of this video at all? it could just be my old eyes playing tricks on me.

either way, the guy that opened near you - if he's certain he did nothing wrong, then don't jump with him again. that's your perrogative.

but talking to someone else more experienced than both of you and having them check out the video is a great idea. there's no f-ing way any two people should be that close on opening (except for a tandem inst and his/her passenger Wink). i think there's more to this than what you've written...


(This post was edited by arlo on Apr 28, 2005, 1:21 PM)


4201  (D 28813)

Apr 28, 2005, 12:43 PM
Post #18 of 92 (2457 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SuperKat] Video: Poor seperation after break off. [In reply to] Can't Post

What was the other guy saying just as you two opened? It also seems like there is 1 or 2 seconds missing on the video!


(This post was edited by 4201 on Apr 28, 2005, 12:46 PM)


darkwing  (D 4164)

Apr 28, 2005, 1:03 PM
Post #19 of 92 (2414 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SuperKat] Video: Poor seperation after break off. [In reply to] Can't Post

The guy most prominently on the vid has a pretty lame "iron cross" track, but he isn't the one you have the close encounter with, right?


The111  (D 29246)

Apr 28, 2005, 1:08 PM
Post #20 of 92 (2402 views)
Shortcut
Re: [arlo] Video: Poor seperation after break off. [In reply to] Can't Post

Part of the video was definitely edited... the original "iron cross" tracker fades away and is replaced by a canopy. There's something missing...


freefalle  (D 27777)

Apr 28, 2005, 1:17 PM
Post #21 of 92 (2379 views)
Shortcut
Re: [The111] Video: Poor seperation after break off. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Part of the video was definitely edited... the original "iron cross" tracker fades away and is replaced by a canopy. There's something missing...

I concur


Zoter

Apr 28, 2005, 1:47 PM
Post #22 of 92 (2345 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SuperKat] Video: Poor seperation after break off. [In reply to] Can't Post

I dont think it matters if the video was edited at all....
Regardless of the situation/dive...that opening was far far too close....
If the other jumper suggest that it was Ok.....I suggest you show that to your DZ safety advisor for their opinion...


(This post was edited by Zoter on Apr 28, 2005, 1:49 PM)


piisfish

Apr 28, 2005, 1:57 PM
Post #23 of 92 (2329 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SuperKat] Video: Poor seperation after break off. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
This guy obviously has problems. This is the 2nd time he's done it to me. This time was the closest. The other time he flew past me at 125mph, directly in front of me but he was a bit further.
If it's an "accident" give him a hard lecture.
As it's not the 1st time, avoid jumping with him...
Accidents might happen. When people start to repeat dangerous mistakes, stay away.


Kris  (D 26033)

Apr 28, 2005, 2:14 PM
Post #24 of 92 (2309 views)
Shortcut
Re: [piisfish] Video: Poor seperation after break off. [In reply to] Can't Post

Good answer, Piisfish.

If it happened once, but they didn't do it on subsequent dives, I'd write it off after talking with them about it.

If it happened again after already talking to them, friend or not, it's time for some wall-to-wall counseling.Mad


SuperKat  (C 34563)

Apr 28, 2005, 2:30 PM
Post #25 of 92 (2294 views)
Shortcut
Re: [freefalle] Video: Poor seperation after break off. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I don't mean to sound like an ass, but I might. After reading this post twice, it seems to me that you were already aware that this skydiver has poor tracking habits. Do you think you could have dealt with this situation differently?
Well, I flew with him 15 times in between the first time flew past me and the 2nd time he opened near me. I trusted him after the first time I brought it to his attention. Now, I don't know if I do anymore.

In reply to:
From the appearance of your video, you were shooting on level or inside video. Knowing that this skydiver doesn't track very well, would it have served you better to plan the dive so that all THREE of you tracked in seperate directions.
That would have been a great plan. However, this plan was about filming our 3 way jump and filming yellow jumpsuit guy track away. Yellow jumpsuit guy wanted to see himself tracking. Normally, I always track away from the group. That's usually part of the plan for me, even if I have a camera. It was just this one freakin' time that when we decided I was to pull in place that something almost happened.

In reply to:
Additionally, During the breakoff could you see him tracking away while videoing the other skydiver? If not, do you not think it would have been in the best intrest of safety to watch the skydiver you had concerns about in order to ensure that you had proper seperation? My thought is had you been watching him, and noticed that his tracking was not allowing for proper seperation, you could have turned and tracked to allow for proper seperation.

I totally agree with you. During the past 15 jumps with other jumpsuit guy from the first time he flew past me at 125mph in front, he never had problems tracking away from the group or from me. Seeing that the past 15 times he tracked away far enough, my trust grew back for him. I never liked the idea of pulling in place but it was my first time and I trusted everyone that was in the formation. Had we not planned to tape yellow jumpsuit guy tracking away, I would have done what I normally do and track away from everyone.

In reply to:
YES, plan the dive and dive the plan but think about safety. If especially at breakoff. it is customary for the camera flyer to pull in place, but GENERALLY on the skydives when the camera flyer pulls in place, he is above the formation and deploys at breakoff not at the same altitude as the formation.
Trust me dude, this is the freakin' last time I'm doing this. Screw it if people want to see themselves track away. I can't deal with this near miss situation. Crazy

In reply to:
Just my thoughts for what they are worth
helpful 2 cents are always appreciated.Smile


First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 Next page Last page  View All

Forums : Skydiving : Safety and Training

 


Search for (options)