Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Don't EVER do that!

 


airtwardo  (D License)

Apr 24, 2005, 12:44 PM
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Don't EVER do that! Can't Post

I'm a bit reluctant to post anything on this, but
in the interest of safety and learning...

I wanted to jump an event recently and my personal rigs were out for maintenance.

I called a friend to borrow one of his, which wasn't going to work out...but he called a friend and got me set up.

I rigged one of my mains in it, and did some stuff to insure fit & function.

Something didn't feel right...so with minor investigation, it's seems the reserve was a few
years out of date...though not on the packing card.
I appreciate the effort to assit me, especially considering I don't know the 'lender' well...

I have no doubt that he had nothing but the best of intentions...for the short term.

But don't ever do that...

Imagine the consequence if something bad had happened!

To him & ME!



Let's watch out for each other!


tigra  (C 27417)

Apr 24, 2005, 12:46 PM
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Re: [airtwardo] Don't EVER do that! [In reply to] Can't Post

Years, huh?

Actually, isn't it the pilot that would get into the most trouble?


Hooknswoop  (D License)

Apr 24, 2005, 12:51 PM
Post #3 of 24 (1926 views)
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Re: [tigra] Don't EVER do that! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Actually, isn't it the pilot that would get into the most trouble?

If the card is in date, but forged, the FAA would probably never know. If an actual rigger signed it off, then the rigger could be held responsible, if the FAA ever found out.

Derek


airtwardo  (D License)

Apr 24, 2005, 1:07 PM
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Re: [Hooknswoop] Don't EVER do that! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
Actually, isn't it the pilot that would get into the most trouble?

If the card is in date, but forged, the FAA would probably never know. If an actual rigger signed it off, then the rigger could be held responsible, if the FAA ever found out.

Derek

Quote:

It wasn't (Re)signed by a rigger...

And, I'm no lawyer...but something tells me if you
were to forge a sig, and something bad were to happen to someone else...you could be libel.

Like a car dealer here recently 'okayed' work on a vehicle that wasn't really done and a serious injury resulted.


(This post was edited by airtwardo on Apr 24, 2005, 1:19 PM)


chutem  (A 45827)

Apr 24, 2005, 1:21 PM
Post #5 of 24 (1906 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Don't EVER do that! [In reply to] Can't Post

Stupid "newbie" question, How were you able to determine when the reserve was packed if the card was forged? Is there something to look for on the rig? Or did you check with the rigger who's "signature" was on the card?
James


airtwardo  (D License)

Apr 24, 2005, 1:54 PM
Post #6 of 24 (1882 views)
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Re: [chutem] Don't EVER do that! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Stupid "newbie" question, How were you able to determine when the reserve was packed if the card was forged? Is there something to look for on the rig? Or did you check with the rigger who's "signature" was on the card?
James


Quote:

The spider web on the silver handle?!Wink



But seriously-

Good question, glad I'm sparking some thought.

The lender has a couple of newer / better rigs he uses, didn't seem logical he would travel 1500 miles to get an I & R on a rig he doesn't use.

I know the person who's seal is on the rig quite well so I gave them a call to inquire.

But even if it was a local riggers seal on it...I would wonder why 'suddenly' it was serviced after almost 4 years in a closet somewhere.

If something / ANYTHING doesn't seem right,
check things out...

In the end, your safety is your own responsibility.




edited to add:
No such thing as a 'stupid' question in this forum.


(This post was edited by airtwardo on Apr 24, 2005, 1:57 PM)


Avion  (Student)

Apr 24, 2005, 2:23 PM
Post #7 of 24 (1852 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Don't EVER do that! [In reply to] Can't Post

Hmm, you always have to keep on your toes. Thanks for the reminder Wink


chutem  (A 45827)

Apr 24, 2005, 2:42 PM
Post #8 of 24 (1831 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Don't EVER do that! [In reply to] Can't Post

Did this person think they were doing you a favor lending you an out of date packed rig forged to be current? Thanks for shareing this, I guess you have to remember only you can be trusted to look out for your best interest.
James


firstime  (B 28972)

Apr 24, 2005, 2:44 PM
Post #9 of 24 (1831 views)
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Re: [tigra] Don't EVER do that! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Years, huh?

Actually, isn't it the pilot that would get into the most trouble?

I would rather be in trouble then dead.


SwampThing  (D License)

Apr 24, 2005, 3:25 PM
Post #10 of 24 (1800 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Don't EVER do that! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I have no doubt that he had nothing but the best of intentions...

Quote:


I wonder about that.


Question: Would it have been better if he would have told you it was out of date?


airtwardo  (D License)

Apr 24, 2005, 3:38 PM
Post #11 of 24 (1783 views)
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Re: [SwampThing] Don't EVER do that! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I have no doubt that he had nothing but the best of intentions...

Quote:


I wonder about that.


Question: Would it have been better if he would have told you it was out of date?

In a word..YES

It's about risk evaluation, how can you made a decision without true information?


kallend  (D 23151)

Apr 24, 2005, 3:46 PM
Post #12 of 24 (1778 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Don't EVER do that! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

Imagine the consequence if something bad had happened!

To him & ME!



Let's watch out for each other!


Or, to put it another way:

"Neither a borrower nor a lender be;
For loan oft loses both itself and friend"
Polonius, in Hamlet (Shakespeare).


airtwardo  (D License)

Apr 24, 2005, 3:59 PM
Post #13 of 24 (1769 views)
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Re: [kallend] Don't EVER do that! [In reply to] Can't Post

Friends...Romans...Countrymen,
LEND me your ears!


Guess I shouldn't have looked a gift horse in the mouth!
Wink


Superman32  (B 28074)

Apr 24, 2005, 4:24 PM
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Re: [airtwardo] Don't EVER do that! [In reply to] Can't Post

Another newbie question -- I see it here all the time, people asking to borrow each other's gear. Why not rent the gear instead of borrowing? Besides the money, is there another reason why you would choose to borrow instead of renting?


airtwardo  (D License)

Apr 24, 2005, 5:41 PM
Post #15 of 24 (1695 views)
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Re: [Superman32] Don't EVER do that! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Another newbie question -- I see it here all the time, people asking to borrow each other's gear. Why not rent the gear instead of borrowing? Besides the money, is there another reason why you would choose to borrow instead of renting?

Quote:
Money actually isn't a consideration...

To an extent TYPE of gear is-

The friend I originally asked, uses very similar gear to mine...
and I needed to specifically rig it, as the event I wanted to participate in required it.

When you rent gear...it usually doesn't leave the DZ,
and that wouldn't work for me.

I both lend and borrow gear now & then,
if a friend needs a flag & a red white & blue canopy,
I'm happy to help.

My point is, loaning something you know isn't
up to par, isn't a good thing and should be discouraged.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Apr 24, 2005, 10:48 PM
Post #16 of 24 (1607 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Don't EVER do that! [In reply to] Can't Post

Good catch my friend.

If something doesn't feel right, it usually isn't.

Borrowing gear is not like borrowing a White Sports Coat to go to the Prom.Smile
Sparky


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Apr 25, 2005, 7:05 AM
Post #17 of 24 (1483 views)
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Re: [Superman32] Don't EVER do that! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Another newbie question -- I see it here all the time, people asking to borrow each other's gear. Why not rent the gear instead of borrowing? Besides the money, is there another reason why you would choose to borrow instead of renting?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Renting works great at big DZs like Cross Keys or DeLand, but there are no parachutes for rent "back in the hills," ... er ... at smaller DZs.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Apr 25, 2005, 7:06 AM
Post #18 of 24 (1481 views)
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Re: [chutem] Don't EVER do that! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Stupid "newbie" question, How were you able to determine when the reserve was packed if the card was forged? Is there something to look for on the rig? Or did you check with the rigger who's "signature" was on the card?
James

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

... by the corroded lead seal.


BillyVance  (D 18895)

Apr 25, 2005, 5:50 PM
Post #19 of 24 (1295 views)
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Re: [riggerrob] Don't EVER do that! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Stupid "newbie" question, How were you able to determine when the reserve was packed if the card was forged? Is there something to look for on the rig? Or did you check with the rigger who's "signature" was on the card?
James

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

... by the corroded lead seal.

Lead corrodes??

I figured if something didn't look right, you just call the rigger who last repacked as the packing card indicated, and see if his/her packing logbook shows the same date as seen on the packing card...

Am I right?


SwampThing  (D License)

Apr 28, 2005, 7:27 PM
Post #20 of 24 (1046 views)
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Re: [BillyVance] Don't EVER do that! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Stupid "newbie" question, How were you able to determine when the reserve was packed if the card was forged? Is there something to look for on the rig? Or did you check with the rigger who's "signature" was on the card?
James

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

... by the corroded lead seal.

Lead corrodes??

I figured if something didn't look right, you just call the rigger who last repacked as the packing card indicated, and see if his/her packing logbook shows the same date as seen on the packing card...

Am I right?

Quote:

Ever see Fandango?!


kkeenan  (D 22164)

Apr 28, 2005, 7:38 PM
Post #21 of 24 (1042 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Don't EVER do that! [In reply to] Can't Post

There was a recent incident in GA in which a tandem reserve was deployed following a cutaway and after an unevetful landing, the reserve connector links fell apart because of missing screws. The tandem instructor had borrowed the rig to make the jump.

Kevin K.


airtwardo  (D License)

Apr 28, 2005, 9:21 PM
Post #22 of 24 (1012 views)
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Re: [kkeenan] Don't EVER do that! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
There was a recent incident in GA in which a tandem reserve was deployed following a cutaway and after an unevetful landing, the reserve connector links fell apart because of missing screws. The tandem instructor had borrowed the rig to make the jump.

Kevin K.

Quote:
I've read the story on that one...


This, I think is a seperate issue with nothing
to do with a rigger.....

...Borrowed rig though!Unsure


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Apr 29, 2005, 6:59 AM
Post #23 of 24 (954 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Don't EVER do that! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
There was a recent incident in GA in which a tandem reserve was deployed following a cutaway and after an unevetful landing, the reserve connector links fell apart because of missing screws. The tandem instructor had borrowed the rig to make the jump.

Kevin K.

Quote:
I've read the story on that one...


This, I think is a seperate issue with nothing
to do with a rigger.....

...Borrowed rig though!Unsure
That's scary. And I think it has everything to do with a rigger, one who f-d up doing his job correctly. It has nothing to do with borrowing or being out of date. I'd much rather jump a properly stored, out of date reserve packed correctly than an in date reserve packed by a sloppy rigger. Unsure


airtwardo  (D License)

Apr 29, 2005, 9:06 AM
Post #24 of 24 (928 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] Don't EVER do that! [In reply to] Can't Post

This, I think is a seperate issue with nothing
to do with a rigger.....

...Borrowed rig though!
----------------------------------------------------------------

That's scary. And I think it has everything to do with a rigger, one who f-d up doing his job correctly. It has nothing to do with borrowing or being out of date. I'd much rather jump a properly stored, out of date reserve packed correctly than an in date reserve packed by a sloppy rigger.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:

To clarify~

I agree the tandem incident is of an infinitely more serious nature. But that thread has been discussed thoroughly. In MY instance the rigger was not a factor, but instead a fellow jumper that 'updated' a 3 1/2 year old pack job.

And I agree John...I might not have an issue with a reserve out of date for a short time....but YEARS is another issue.
I don't have any idea what conditions it was stored in.

The guy that owned the rig might not have reservations jumping it out of date like that. But I do...and I think I should have been told.
As I said, I loan out gear frequently and would never pass along something I ddin't KNOW was legal and
working 100%.

But as Doc. K mentioned...Borrower Beware.Wink



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