Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Condums for water landings????

 


377  (F 666)

Apr 21, 2005, 8:21 PM
Post #1 of 20 (1901 views)
Shortcut
Condums for water landings???? Can't Post

Perry Stevens first jump class in 1968 taught us to keep a couple of condums in the jumpsuit always. If you had an unplanned water landing you could blow em up and maybe survive with the floatation they would provide. He said it would keep you prepared for anything unexpected. Given the wild parties that the Livermore gang had, it seemed like a good idea.


FrogNog  (C 34484)

Apr 21, 2005, 9:24 PM
Post #2 of 20 (1854 views)
Shortcut
Re: [377] Condums for water landings???? [In reply to] Can't Post

I trust he taught you to steer away from water first, right?


DrewGPM  (D 23986)

Apr 22, 2005, 9:14 AM
Post #3 of 20 (1666 views)
Shortcut
Re: [377] Condums for water landings???? [In reply to] Can't Post

The only thing few condoms will do if i land in a lake is keep a few fish from getting pregnant.

I weigh 250 pound...I don't see how a few blown up condoms are gonna keep me floating.

My instructor taught us that the container will float, something to do with all the air trapped in the reserve. He did warn us that main will sink once it fills with water, and we should cut it away if that happens. I suppose we should disconnect the RSL before pulling that handle though.


(This post was edited by DrewGPM on Apr 22, 2005, 9:14 AM)


AggieDave  (D License)

Apr 22, 2005, 9:21 AM
Post #4 of 20 (1661 views)
Shortcut
Re: [DrewGPM] Condums for water landings???? [In reply to] Can't Post

The reserve will float...for a bit, then it'll become a 50lbs sea weight. Get out of the gear, swim to shore. I have a SCR number due to that process not happening a number of years ago.

Atleast in TX, if you land in water, first try to stand up since it's probably just a stock pond and about 4' deep.


bodypilot1  (D 16037)

Apr 22, 2005, 9:29 AM
Post #5 of 20 (1656 views)
Shortcut
Re: [DrewGPM] Condums for water landings???? [In reply to] Can't Post

 

In reply to:
My instructor taught us that the container will float, something to do with all the air trapped in the reserve.


Air trapped in a packed reserve? Crazy

Sorry, but that fuckin' funny! Laugh


Be safe.
Ed


mnealtx  (B 30496)

Apr 22, 2005, 9:34 AM
Post #6 of 20 (1653 views)
Shortcut
Re: [377] Condums for water landings???? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Perry Stevens first jump class in 1968 taught us to keep a couple of condums in the jumpsuit always. If you had an unplanned water landing you could blow em up and maybe survive with the floatation they would provide. He said it would keep you prepared for anything unexpected. Given the wild parties that the Livermore gang had, it seemed like a good idea.

Maybe a couple of *ELEPHANT* condoms... human sized one's aren't gonna float shit....sorry dude.


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Apr 22, 2005, 9:57 AM
Post #7 of 20 (1636 views)
Shortcut
Re: [bodypilot1] Condums for water landings???? [In reply to] Can't Post

Actually, its true. The reserve will hold air in it even while packed, the coating on the back of the container material helps too. Since the only way for it to spill out air is through the fabric very slowly, or through the needle holes it slowly loses its bouency, once it loses too much air... its nothing more then a weight.

When I used to lifeguard we would toss gym bags filled with clothes in and use those as mock rescue devices to show just how resourceful you can be for water rescues. The bags would only float for a few minutes due to the air trapped inside the folds of the clothes, but sometimes a minute is all you need.

How many little folds are in a reserve packjob? If each one of them only trapped a little bit of air there is still a lot of potential there to be held.


bodypilot1  (D 16037)

Apr 22, 2005, 11:10 AM
Post #8 of 20 (1599 views)
Shortcut
Re: [PhreeZone] Condums for water landings???? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Actually, its true. The reserve will hold air in it even while packed, the coating on the back of the container material helps too. Since the only way for it to spill out air is through the fabric very slowly, or through the needle holes it slowly loses its bouency, once it loses too much air... its nothing more then a weight.

When I used to lifeguard we would toss gym bags filled with clothes in and use those as mock rescue devices to show just how resourceful you can be for water rescues. The bags would only float for a few minutes due to the air trapped inside the folds of the clothes, but sometimes a minute is all you need.

How many little folds are in a reserve packjob? If each one of them only trapped a little bit of air there is still a lot of potential there to be held.

Come on, we all know there is a small amount of air inside a packed reserve. Crazy

Is it enough to keep you afloat?

Maybe for a minute or two, depending on your body weight and the pack volume of your reserve, but these days everybody wants to have the smallest canopies and the smallest containers to "look cool". Which means less air and it turning into a quick BRICK to the bottom.

The thought of someone having the idea that leaving their container on as floatation device is frightening, and with this forum new skydivers are easily influenced. Unimpressed

"IF" you are jumping near any body of water, DO NOT rely on condems or your reserve to keep you afloat! Crazy

As soon as you realize you are going to have a water landing, carefully remove your chest strap, carefully pay attention to your approach to the water, as it sometimes throws your depth perception off, and flare your canopy as you would on land.
After your in the water, remove your arms from the container and free your legs enough to swim out from under your canopy if it has fallen over your head, then inflate your approved floatation device.

Wink


Be safe.
Ed


chutem  (A 45827)

Apr 22, 2005, 11:17 AM
Post #9 of 20 (1595 views)
Shortcut
Re: [PhreeZone] Condums for water landings???? [In reply to] Can't Post

I would think you could trap air with a ZP main for floatation. I also think the condom thing would probably work, it doesn't take much to keep a body afloat. If you have a very low bodyfat % you might have trouble, but the rest of us should float with very little assistance.
James


JohnRich  (D License)

Apr 22, 2005, 11:22 AM
Post #10 of 20 (1592 views)
Shortcut
Re: [bodypilot1] Condums for water landings???? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Air trapped in a packed reserve?
Sorry, but that fuckin' funny!

Even if you want to consider that there is "no air" inside a packed reserve, it will still be bouyant, because the density of a packed reserve is less than that of water.

In WWII they made ships out of concrete. We all know that concrete doesn't float, but if you make a concrete hull that displaces enough water volume to outweigh the concrete, then the concrete hull will float. Same thing with a reserve pack.

As it slowly absorbs water, the equation changes...


chutem  (A 45827)

Apr 22, 2005, 11:22 AM
Post #11 of 20 (1591 views)
Shortcut
Re: [chutem] Condums for water landings???? [In reply to] Can't Post

Under no circumstances substitute condoms for approved flotation devices. I was just commenting that they should be able to provide the necc. bouyancy. Also as bodypilot 1 says get the gear off before useing any of it as flotation.
James


bodypilot1  (D 16037)

Apr 22, 2005, 11:27 AM
Post #12 of 20 (1587 views)
Shortcut
Re: [JohnRich] Condums for water landings???? [In reply to] Can't Post

 

In reply to:
In WWII they made ships out of concrete. We all know that concrete doesn't float, but if you make a concrete hull that displaces enough water volume to outweigh the concrete, then the concrete hull will float. Same thing with a reserve pack.


Or maybe you could just land your WWII round in the water next to the concrete boat? Tongue

edited to inject more sarcasm. Laugh


Be safe.
Ed


(This post was edited by bodypilot1 on Apr 22, 2005, 11:31 AM)


kelpdiver  (B 7)

Apr 22, 2005, 12:06 PM
Post #13 of 20 (1568 views)
Shortcut
Re: [377] Condums for water landings???? [In reply to] Can't Post

A couple well sealed rubbers probably has as much bouyancy as the typical vest. Never tried to seal one up, myself.

Better to be a good enough swimmer in the first place. Use the rubbers to save the rig?

How do the approved vests differ from snorkeling vests? Is it just the CO2 cartridge, or an expensive certification label, or something more tangible?


FargoCurt  (Student)

Apr 22, 2005, 12:36 PM
Post #14 of 20 (1551 views)
Shortcut
Re: [377] Condums for water landings???? [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok lets analyze this just a bit.
You are landing over water, far enough out that just a quick swim in is not an option. Even the most experience skydiver is going to have some pucker factor. You are wearing equipment that may or may not help you float (did you use your reserve?). Now your plan of action is to blow up a condom in water you cannot stand in. For our example lets say there is some wave action going on. Now to blow this thing up you would at the very least have to float on your back (if your still wearing your reserve and it does float, it will want to force you into a face down position), but with waves going on and the fear factor you will probably try to inflate the condom treading water. So you will have to tread water without using your hands long enough to fill 2 condoms and tie them up. How much energy did you just use up trying to create a floatation device? Now I am a pretty good swimmer (former life guard), and swim every week as part of my fitness routine but I would not want to tread water with only my legs for that long. Of course all of this must be done after possibly a hard landing. Somehow I just dont think this is a good plan. Leave the condom on the bed stand and wear approved life support.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Apr 22, 2005, 12:38 PM
Post #15 of 20 (1549 views)
Shortcut
Re: [FargoCurt] Condums for water landings???? [In reply to] Can't Post

>Now your plan of action is to blow up a condom in water you cannot stand in.

The original post was a joke. Condoms are not useful flotation devices. I left it up because I thought it might spur a discussion of what _does_ work, and several people have had good suggestions.

But condoms work far better for preventing new skydivers than saving old ones.


FargoCurt  (Student)

Apr 22, 2005, 12:55 PM
Post #16 of 20 (1543 views)
Shortcut
Re: [billvon] Condums for water landings???? [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok now that you have said that and I have re-read it. I get it Cool. Some of us are just a little slow on the up beat.


kelpdiver  (B 7)

Apr 22, 2005, 2:01 PM
Post #17 of 20 (1525 views)
Shortcut
Re: [FargoCurt] Condums for water landings???? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Ok now that you have said that and I have re-read it. I get it Cool. Some of us are just a little slow on the up beat.

It's friday.

And rain is forecast for tomorrow.


Griff69  (Student)

Apr 22, 2005, 3:30 PM
Post #18 of 20 (1503 views)
Shortcut
Re: [kelpdiver] Condums for water landings???? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
And rain is forecast for tomorrow.

And snow! Mad


kelpdiver  (B 7)

Apr 22, 2005, 3:41 PM
Post #19 of 20 (1501 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Griff69] Condums for water landings???? [In reply to] Can't Post

heh - Monday I was sitting downtown in Chicago getting mildly sun burned. Temp in the upper 70s - 80s. Now I'm home, and they're getting snowed on with lows in the 30s. April is a cruel month.


dorbie

Apr 22, 2005, 5:17 PM
Post #20 of 20 (1481 views)
Shortcut
Photoshop (actually Gimp) Friday! [In reply to] Can't Post

The attached image is an illustration of this technique in action.

Apologies to M. Brunson for the (ab)use of his image.
Attachments: condomEP.jpg (69.7 KB)



Forums : Skydiving : Safety and Training

 


Search for (options)