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Fatality - Atlanta Skydiving Center - 16 April 2005

 

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Dignthecornr  (D 26135)

Apr 16, 2005, 8:47 PM
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Fatality - Atlanta Skydiving Center - 16 April 2005 Can't Post

Brian McGuigan, a long time jumper of ASC, was killed when he double fronted his canopy into the ground on Saturday, April 16, 2005. McGuigan, who had over 1000 jumps initiated a 270 degree turn which was finished with double front risers to keep his speed. The jumper may have become fixated on a noodle which he hit; resulting in a late flare. People please realize that you do not have to have a perfect powerful swoop every jump. The key is walking away and learning. My friend put himself in a situation trying to push for more. Set limits and obey them. I am tired of seeing good people hurt or killed. To his family and friends, I love you all and hope that you find some happiness in knowing HE LOVED AND LIVED SKYDIVING.


(This post was edited by Tonto on Jan 25, 2006, 6:58 AM)


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Apr 16, 2005, 8:52 PM
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Re: [Dignthecornr] Doublefront Fatality ASC Cedartown [In reply to] Can't Post

Do you have any information on what type of canopy, jumps on that canopy or any other information that might be of a learning nature.

Sorry about your friend.

Sparky


superwhuffo  (D 25092)

Apr 16, 2005, 10:04 PM
Post #3 of 38 (11745 views)
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Re: [Dignthecornr] Doublefront Fatality ASC Cedartown [In reply to] Can't Post

Brian was a good friend and jumping buddy of mine when I jumped there on a regular basis. I did not know that he was into any radical swooping, but it sounds like this was just a freak accident. I am so sorry to here about his death as he was such a friendly person and a hell of a nice guy. My vibes go out to his family. This statement is true-- he loved to skydive. I will miss him.Unsure
--------------------


Rookie120  (D 22748)

Apr 16, 2005, 11:33 PM
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Re: [superwhuffo] Doublefront Fatality ASC Cedartown [In reply to] Can't Post

Any info yet on any of the facts? Wing loading? Canopy type and size? Experience of his swoops? Did he have a habit of having to dig out of his swoops? At Aprox what altitude did he start his 270 turn? Did he hold the front risers all the way into the ground or did he try to stab it out in the end? And I know I'm starting to get old here but what the hell is a noodle?


CanuckInUSA  (D 26396)

Apr 17, 2005, 12:09 AM
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Re: [Rookie120] Doublefront Fatality ASC Cedartown [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
what the hell is a noodle?

One of those styrofoam thing-a-ma-bobs which sticks out of the ground that is used on a swoop course to act as a course marker as well as give the swoopers targets to kick at as they swoop through the course.


Dignthecornr  (D 26135)

Apr 17, 2005, 7:03 AM
Post #6 of 38 (11429 views)
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Re: [Rookie120] Doublefront Fatality ASC Cedartown [In reply to] Can't Post

Brian jumped a Katana 120 which he loaded at around 1.8. He was a very current jumper who made every load he could get on to. The problem was not necessarily the height of his turns, but the delayed reaction to the double fronts.


Rookie120  (D 22748)

Apr 17, 2005, 7:38 AM
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Re: [Dignthecornr] Doublefront Fatality ASC Cedartown [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
The problem was not necessarily the height of his turns, but the delayed reaction to the double fronts.


Was this somthing he did a lot? Or might we just be looking at someone who got target fixation and flew himself into the ground?


thepollster  (D 12122)

Apr 17, 2005, 9:02 AM
Post #8 of 38 (11302 views)
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Re: [Dignthecornr] Doublefront Fatality ASC Cedartown [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
when he double fronted his canopy into the ground
Quote:
resulting in a late flare

Well, which was it? If he flared, does the Katana not dig out of the corner any better than a Velocity?


Widgeon  (D License)

Apr 17, 2005, 11:34 AM
Post #9 of 38 (11174 views)
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Re: [thepollster] Doublefront Fatality ASC Cedartown [In reply to] Can't Post

I was standing less than fifty feet away when Brian went in...I never saw him flare. There was some traffic when he made his turn and he could have been distracted by another canopy heading in his direction. Brian was a very friendly guy who welcomed newcomers regardless of where they were from, and he will be missed. Blues.


MrHixxx  (D 24144)

Apr 17, 2005, 1:07 PM
Post #10 of 38 (11083 views)
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Re: [Dignthecornr] Doublefront Fatality ASC Cedartown [In reply to] Can't Post

I heard that there was a photographer there from MTV who was also hit when he hooked in. Was he trying to geek the camera with something a little more radical than a standard approach??? If so, it is worth mentioning as a factor in the incident.

It makes sense to brief people on when an added risk is present (or impetus to show off) to keep them working within their skill levels.

condolences, Jon


(This post was edited by MrHixxx on Apr 17, 2005, 3:28 PM)


Rookie120  (D 22748)

Apr 17, 2005, 1:34 PM
Post #11 of 38 (11066 views)
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Re: [MrHixxx] Doublefront Fatality ASC Cedartown [In reply to] Can't Post

Can the camera crew be confirmed or is it "hearsay"?


(This post was edited by Rookie120 on Apr 17, 2005, 1:36 PM)


Rookie120  (D 22748)

Apr 17, 2005, 1:39 PM
Post #12 of 38 (11065 views)
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Re: [Dignthecornr] Doublefront Fatality ASC Cedartown [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Brian jumped a Katana 120 which he loaded at around 1.8. He was a very current jumper who made every load he could get on to.



How many jumps did he have on the Katana?


rdw  (A License)

Apr 17, 2005, 2:00 PM
Post #13 of 38 (11045 views)
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Re: [Rookie120] Doublefront Fatality ASC Cedartown [In reply to] Can't Post

There was a videographer from MTV present who was standing right next to the noodle mentioned. He was hit as Brian came in, but appeared to recover fairly quickly.

My condolences to his family and the entire ASC crew.


mysky  (D License)

Apr 17, 2005, 6:51 PM
Post #14 of 38 (10662 views)
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Re: [Dignthecornr] Doublefront Fatality ASC Cedartown [In reply to] Can't Post

ASC? What dropzone is this?


Icon134  (D 29820)

Apr 17, 2005, 7:01 PM
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Re: [mysky] Doublefront Fatality ASC Cedartown [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
ASC? What dropzone is this?

The Atlanta Skydiving Center in Cedartown, GA.


chutingstar  (D 19956)

Apr 17, 2005, 8:11 PM
Post #16 of 38 (10486 views)
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Re: [Dignthecornr] Doublefront Fatality ASC Cedartown [In reply to] Can't Post

Bryan had recently switched (a couple of weeks ago) to Katana 107 canopies in both of his rigs. We will never know exactly what caused Bryan not to flare, but there was opposing canopy traffic about 50 feet away as well as a cameraman in the landing area (with his back to Bryan). Both or either could have distracted Bryan at the last second.

Bryan was extremely current and well-versed in canopy control skills as he regularly attended Scott Miller's school in Florida as well as received coaching from TJ Landgren in Eloy. He routinely made back-to-back loads as a fun jumper at ASC...jumping with anyone he could. He was also a tandem instructor and coach.

A memorial service and ash dive will be held this Saturday at sunset at ASC. More information will be posted on our web site at http://www.ascskydiving.com.

Mike


goofyjumper  (A 44263)

Apr 17, 2005, 8:36 PM
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Re: [Widgeon] Doublefront Fatality ASC Cedartown [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I was standing less than fifty feet away when Brian went in...I never saw him flare. There was some traffic when he made his turn and he could have been distracted by another canopy heading in his direction. Brian was a very friendly guy who welcomed newcomers regardless of where they were from, and he will be missed. Blues.

I am sorry to hear about this loss.


dcwood

Apr 18, 2005, 10:13 AM
Post #18 of 38 (9700 views)
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Re: [chutingstar] Doublefront Fatality ASC Cedartown [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
there was opposing canopy traffic about 50 feet away

Quote:
Bryan was extremely current and well-versed in canopy control skills as he regularly attended Scott Miller's school in Florida as well as received coaching from TJ Landgren in Eloy.

Perhaps my comments are unrelated to the incident, but an observation about potential hazards and risk. I recently got back into the sport of skydiving and chose ASC as the place at which to do it. Things have changed for certain. My wife recently graduated AFF there and has just met all the quals for her A license. We have jumped there almost every weekend for the last three months. I only have a little over 300 jumps. I must say, the canopy skills displayed at ASC are enviable, to say the least. The staff has some amazing capabilities and so do a number of fun jumpers who frequently jump there. You can learn a lot from just watching.
I must also say that "having opposing traffic" in the landing pattern isn't a freak incident at ASC and probably other DZs as well. As I have observed, you never know which way some of the canopy pilots are going to approach the DZ. I have been cut off by someone who probably didn't even see me. With the extremely highly loaded canopies that are found in abundance at ASC and across the industry now, the pilots have no need to be concerned about wind direction on there approach... they're going to be able to swoop into, across wind, or down wind.
Therein lies the problem (or at least a hazard). Skydiving is dangerous (no kidding) and Bryan's death is a reminder that things can go wrong at any time. Immediately following Bryan's impact, a senior skydiver came over the intercom and chastised everyone for not landing into the wind as he (seemingly) perceived it as a contributing factor. This guy has over 12,000 jumps (and makes a mean pasta dish).
Why did it take a skydiver's (ultimately) fatal injury for someone to say "use the correct landing pattern before someone else gets hurt"? Students are taught the basic pattern, but seemingly the experienced jumpers lose sight of why. It isn't just because students jump large canopies that are more effected by the wind. It's predictable! If everyone used the correct pattern, especially the experienced jumpers who are supposed to be setting the example for safety, you wouldn't have opposing traffic in the pattern except for rare instances.
I've only jumped at about 10 different DZs in my skydiving career, but lots of people I see screaming in at ASC would have been kicked off of a lot of those DZs because of the hazard they create. I know a lot of the pilots are videographers who are in a hurry to get down so they can film a Tandem landing, but being last out and first down is dangerous no matter what the reason. Extra care should be taken to make sure there isn't some student up there, who was first out,
In reply to:
trying to line up for a landing that gets cut off and has to abort, or turn low.
I held Bryan's hand as he lay there on Saturday, knowing that what had occurred could have been avoided. Perhaps there were a number of contributing factors. Perhaps opposing traffic had nothing to do with it. Perhaps it did. Hopefully, it won't have anything to do with an injury at ASC in the future.

Dan


JRock

Apr 18, 2005, 10:25 AM
Post #19 of 38 (9652 views)
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Re: [Dignthecornr] Double front riser approach Fatality ASC Cedartown - 16 April 2005 [In reply to] Can't Post

Brian was a great guy and gave ASC a great vibe.
He will be missed a great deal.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Apr 18, 2005, 1:26 PM
Post #20 of 38 (9376 views)
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Re: [chutingstar] Doublefront Fatality ASC Cedartown [In reply to] Can't Post

>but there was opposing canopy traffic about 50 feet away . . .

This seems like a big factor to me. A canopy 50 feet away, flying straight at someone, will result in a collision in less than half a second, assuming both canopies are doing about 25mph (which is conservative considering one of them was a heavily loaded Katana 107.) I've been in situations almost as bad as this and had to manuever pretty radically to avoid a collision; fortunately the worst outcome was a sprained ankle. Also fortunately, I never had obstacles in my 'outs' (i.e. the lanes to either side of me.) I have also had more time to manuever than this person seems to have had.


(This post was edited by billvon on Apr 18, 2005, 1:30 PM)


orignas

Apr 18, 2005, 1:47 PM
Post #21 of 38 (9343 views)
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Re: [dcwood] Doublefront Fatality ASC Cedartown [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I must also say that "having opposing traffic" in the landing pattern isn't a freak incident at ASC and probably other DZs as well. As I have observed, you never know which way some of the canopy pilots are going to approach the DZ. I have been cut off by someone who probably didn't even see me.

Immediately following Bryan's impact, a senior skydiver came over the intercom and chastised everyone for not landing into the wind as he (seemingly) perceived it as a contributing factor.

do you mean the deceased was landing downwind?


Widgeon  (D License)

Apr 18, 2005, 2:30 PM
Post #22 of 38 (9260 views)
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Re: [orignas] Doublefront Fatality ASC Cedartown [In reply to] Can't Post

do you mean the deceased was landing downwind?

No, the winds were a bit shifty but Bryan was heading more into the wind than the other pilot...


orignas

Apr 18, 2005, 7:03 PM
Post #23 of 38 (8975 views)
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Re: [Dignthecornr] Double front riser approach Fatality ASC Cedartown - 16 April 2005 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Brian McGuigan, a long time jumper of ASC, was killed when he double fronted his canopy into the ground on Saturday, April 16, 2005. McGuigan, who had over 1000 jumps initiated a 270 degree turn which was finished with double front risers to keep his speed. The jumper may have become fixated on a noodle which he hit; resulting in a late flare. People please realize that you do not have to have a perfect powerful swoop every jump. The key is walking away and learning. My friend put himself in a situation trying to push for more. Set limits and obey them. I am tired of seeing good people hurt or killed. To his family and friends, I love you all and hope that you find some happiness in knowing HE LOVED AND LIVED SKYDIVING.

I don't get the 270 to double fronts part? Don't you get enough speed after the 270???
Why the double front risers?


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Apr 18, 2005, 7:56 PM
Post #24 of 38 (8917 views)
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Re: [orignas] Double front riser approach Fatality ASC Cedartown - 16 April 2005 [In reply to] Can't Post

>I don't get the 270 to double fronts part? Don't you get enough
> speed after the 270??? Why the double front risers?

I cannot speak to what happened in this case, but sometimes when a swooper exits his turn and is a bit high, he will add a little double front to prevent the canopy from recovering as quickly. In general, if your approach is going to be off, it's better to be too high and add some front riser than to be too low and have to dig with the toggles.


dcwood

Apr 19, 2005, 6:12 AM
Post #25 of 38 (8674 views)
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Re: [orignas] Doublefront Fatality ASC Cedartown [In reply to] Can't Post

As Widgeon said, Brian was landing into the wind... However, the opposing traffic was more downwind than into the wind. Moreover, on the same jump, there were people who landd cross wind... with great swoops I might add. They looked awesome. Unfortunately, Brian was lying there on the ground dieing... perhaps because he was too far in the corber; perhaps because he was avoidinng traffic; perhaps because he fixated on the camera; perhaps a lot of things at once.
I was trying to illustrate that there are a number of factors that probably contributed to the incident, all of which could have been controlled and avoided.
Having traffic coming into the DZ from numerous directions is, at least, a distraction... If you're hooking in and deep in the corner, the last thing you need is a distraction. At worse, varying from the standard landing pattern is a collision waiting to happen. We all know that a collision at a low altitude will likely end in death.
Sometimes we lose sight of the basic fundamentals of skydiving. The deadliest aspect of skydiving today exists in landing. Used to be that if your chute opened, you were good to go. Now, that is the least of your concerns. Unless you pack up a malfunction or are using old gear, that chute is going to open... if it doesn't the reserve certainly will! My words, but based on data from DZ.com and Parachutist. Additionally, most of those landing deaths occur with "D" rated, very experienced jumpers, like Bryan. Wonder why? You can only push the envelope so far until it falls off the edge.


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