Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Tandem before AFF

 


airdweller  (D 31348)

Apr 12, 2005, 7:08 AM
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Tandem before AFF Can't Post

Some DZ's require a tandem jump before one moves on to AFF. Some DZ's do not require a one to do a tandem before starting AFF. What are your thoughts on the subject?


FFAddict  (D 1083)

Apr 12, 2005, 7:24 AM
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Re: [airdweller] Tandem before AFF [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it can be very good for helping people decide if its for them or not, because AFF is very expensive if you decide after one jump its not for you.

But in the same vein having to do a tandem first can be very expensive if you decide to carry on.

If a system is run where the Tandem is cheap (poss free, dunno if thats possible) if you decide to carry on to AFF and you only pay full price if you decide its not for you then its a very good thing.

But if they are charged at full price im not sure its such a good idea, i know i would have thought twice about going to a DZ that made me do it because i was on a very tight budget


(This post was edited by FFAddict on Apr 12, 2005, 7:24 AM)


jumperconway  (D 24335)

Apr 12, 2005, 9:27 AM
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Re: [airdweller] Tandem before AFF [In reply to] Can't Post

 At my dz AFF is a special request only option. The standard is 2 (training)tandems(not carnival rides) then AFP with one jump master not 2. I think Roger Nelson was the man that started tandem progression. Personally, I did 1 fun tandem then went straight to AFF and would highly recommend a tandem first.
If you buy the second tandem the same day it's only $99! So that's like $135 each for the tandems!


Peej  (B 2456)

Apr 12, 2005, 9:53 AM
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Re: [FFAddict] Tandem before AFF [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I think it can be very good for helping people decide if its for them or not, because AFF is very expensive if you decide after one jump its not for you.

Here in South Africa the first level of AFF is roughly $50 more than a tandem with video. When a friend says that skydiving is something they'd love to try i often recommend that they think about doing the AFF level instead of a tandem. (Bear in mind that this is only if they think they might continue on after that first jump).

The guys are usually the ones who think this is a good idea and the girls just want the once off. This was the way that a friend recommended that i try skydiving and thus my first jump ever was AFF level 1.


Ron

Apr 12, 2005, 9:55 AM
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Re: [airdweller] Tandem before AFF [In reply to] Can't Post

I think a Tandem before AFF is a great Idea.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Apr 12, 2005, 10:25 AM
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Re: [jumperconway] Tandem before AFF [In reply to] Can't Post

Ask all you want, but none of the PFF instructors at Pitt Meadows will take you freefall on your first jump.
We insist that students do a couple of good IAD jumps (similar to static-line) before trying freefall.

These days, most (Pitt Meadows) students start with a tandem. If they enjoy their tandem, they return for a solo first jump course, then PFF. Even USPA will tell you that students absorb information the best when it is presented in small blocks.

By a similar logic, Hemet, California used to offer tandem progression or straight AFF. Most TP students did 3 tandems before scoring well on their first freefall. On the other hand, the 2% of students who insisted on AFF did poorly on their first jump because of sensory overload. After scoring poorly on AFF, most of them said "I wish I had done a tandem first."

The top 1% of students may do well at AFF, but the majority of students are overwhelmed by all the new information during first jump AFF.
The top 1% of students are over-represented in this forum.

Ultimately the choice is between a slow training method (tandem progression) with a high pass rate or a fast training method (AFF/PFF) with a high repeat rate.


Icon134  (D 29820)

Apr 12, 2005, 11:01 AM
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Re: [riggerrob] Tandem before AFF [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The top 1% of students may do well at AFF, but the majority of students are overwhelmed by all the new information during first jump AFF.
The top 1% of students are over-represented in this forum.

I'm curious as to what you mean by this... I did AFF w/o ever doing a tandem and had no problems but I would recommend to most people that they do tandem for their first jump... (not because I didn't enjoy my AFF L1 jump I did... it just isn't the right approach for most people... as everyone said there is just too much information to process...)

I


AggieDave  (D License)

Apr 12, 2005, 11:08 AM
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Re: [Icon134] Tandem before AFF [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
s everyone said there is just too much information to process...)

I want to add to that.

The students I've seen (the ones I've handed over to the AFF-I's after taking them on their Cat A and Cat B tandems) tend to do much better with their progression. Learning quicker and understanding more sooner.

They also tend to repeat dives less.Smile

Oh, not only that, but I know at my DZ (not sure about anyone else's DZ) doing a tandem progression saves the student around $300 compared to straight AFF. We do offer AFF and IAD as well, just for those that have to do a different method.


Orange1  (B 2638)

Apr 12, 2005, 11:36 AM
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Re: [Peej] Tandem before AFF [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
and the girls just want the once off.

...and some of the girls THINK they just want the once-off and end up hooked Tongue

In reply to:
Ask all you want, but none of the PFF instructors at Pitt Meadows will take you freefall on your first jump. We insist that students do a couple of good IAD jumps (similar to static-line) before trying freefall.

A # of the DZs here require 1 SL jump before AFF.


(This post was edited by Orange1 on Apr 12, 2005, 11:37 AM)


kelpdiver  (B 7)

Apr 12, 2005, 11:49 AM
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Re: [riggerrob] Tandem before AFF [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The top 1% of students may do well at AFF, but the majority of students are overwhelmed by all the new information during first jump AFF.
The top 1% of students are over-represented in this forum.

I'm not in that 1%. Or remotely close.

But while the two one off tandems I did years before were exactly that, the intended one off AFF-1 sucked me in. So I think it would be unfortunate to move universally to a tandem progression.


rustywardlow  (D 18809)

Apr 12, 2005, 11:59 AM
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Re: [FFAddict] Tandem before AFF [In reply to] Can't Post

But in the same vein having to do a tandem first can be very expensive if you decide to carry on.

Not if you compare it to the amount of knowledge gained. In the long run say over 1,000 jumps the cost of a single tandem will not influence the total amount of money spent on skydiving. The saying "most of my money I spent on skydiving the rest I just wasted" holds true. The cost of a tandem skydive is about the same as a really good altimeter or other needed item. Skydiving is about passion. If your worried about how much your going to spend over the course of your skydiving life time you may find that skydiving is not for you. A tandem is a great way to start. After that first jump then you can decide if skydiving is right for you because make no doubt about it skydiving is a hugh commitment and is not for everyone.


"captain the matter is mixing with the doesn't matter"


Avion  (Student)

Apr 12, 2005, 12:22 PM
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Re: [airdweller] Tandem before AFF [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it's a good idea Cool


FFAddict  (D 1083)

Apr 12, 2005, 2:56 PM
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Re: [rustywardlow] Tandem before AFF [In reply to] Can't Post

I realise that doing a tandem is nothing in the long run when you consider how much money you spend on jumps and gear over a year or so.
What i was trying to say is that because i was a student the extra 200 or so could have made me think twice if i could afford to go to the states to do AFF. It would likely have meant that i would not have done AFF then, not that it would have stopped me or anyone who is serious about this, in the long run


Travman  (E License)

Apr 12, 2005, 4:59 PM
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Re: [airdweller] Tandem before AFF [In reply to] Can't Post

I always suggest people that say they want to "Give it a go" to do a tandem. The early AFF jumps you are so nervous and have so much to do, but a tandem is just a fun ride.


jas8472  (C License)

Apr 13, 2005, 12:02 AM
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Re: [Travman] Tandem before AFF [In reply to] Can't Post

I didn't do a tandem before AFF and I was fine;
I have also met a person who did, hated the tandem, nearly didn't do his AFF because of it, but ended up loving it.

But I'm sure a tandem first is a good idea for some people.

I think it all depends on the individual person.


NorfolkNClue  (Student)

Apr 13, 2005, 5:35 AM
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Re: [jas8472] Tandem before AFF [In reply to] Can't Post

I knew I wanted to do it, so went straight for AFF. Not having done a tandem, I can't comment on how it feels, but I imagine you get more of a rush jumping out the door and pulling yourself, even if 2 instructors are holding onto you tighter than a wrestler climbing greasy pole.


Jeth  (C 37471)

Apr 13, 2005, 12:01 PM
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Re: [NorfolkNClue] Tandem before AFF [In reply to] Can't Post

I was required to do 2 tandems before AFP. I wasn't expecting to go into AFP when I went, it was just gonna be a 1-time thing. But by doing the tandem, I had such a blast that I was totally hooked as soon as I landed. That was also great because it gave me something to look forward to. AFP is very stressful with so many objectives, but I know as soon as I graduate I'm gonna have a kick-ass no-pressure jump just like my tandem! Cool

I know if I'd had to take the long class, and have all that stress, info overload as well as the normal sensorly overload, that would've been too much for me. I would not be here today without tandem. But everybody's different! So I think its great if DZ's offer different options.


mdrejhon  (C 3268)

Apr 13, 2005, 9:47 PM
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Re: [Jeth] Tandem before AFF [In reply to] Can't Post

Skydive Ganonque is pretty conservative. They require me to do 4 tandems before the PFF program (Canada's AFF) which involves 8 IAF jumps. And during tandem jumps, they open at 5500ft, not 4500ft.

I just did my 3rd prerequisite tandem, I am starting the 4th tandem + PFF in May (my paycheque!).


(This post was edited by mdrejhon on Apr 13, 2005, 9:54 PM)


bob.dino  (E 2185)

Apr 13, 2005, 9:58 PM
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Re: [mdrejhon] Tandem before AFF [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
And during tandem jumps, they open at 5500ft, not 4500ft.

Minimum opening altitude for a tandem is 5000ft, so that's not surprising.


jumperconway  (D 24335)

Apr 14, 2005, 7:19 AM
Post #20 of 22 (1280 views)
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Re: [Travman] Tandem before AFF [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I always suggest people that say they want to "Give it a go" to do a tandem. The early AFF jumps you are so nervous and have so much to do, but a tandem is just a fun ride.
-----------

Not everywhere,
At Spaceland you don't just watch the hokey video and jump. It's a training jump with about 45 min classroom time before it!


sneaky

Apr 14, 2005, 10:12 AM
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Re: [airdweller] Tandem before AFF [In reply to] Can't Post

Ah a great subject !

A Tandem skydive is the best way to introduce freefall and CC to AFF students. On my FJ courses, I break the day after a brief synopsis on basic canopy control, by this stage the student is familiar with the level 1 dive flow, etc, and we go and do a Tandem together. Throughout the whole time we review what we have discussed in the previous modules, it is the perfect opportunity to Explain, Demonstrate and Practice with the student.

I use the Tandem primarily to allow the student to fly the canopy and go through there flight pattern proc', to landing. All the time we are talking and sharing the moment so they understand what they have to do. It is easier to let them feel full flight, and a full flare by demonstrating rather than explaining with a pen / white board ( as do alot of schools )

After the jump we then break for lunch and crack on with the FJC, by this stage the student has a valuable visual reference to what you are talking about. And they are more confident for the level one. ( well... gagging for it more like !!! )

I highly recommend it !! This is a very important phase in my teaching method........And if you can implement this into yours do so !


cbennettjr  (C 33407)

Apr 15, 2005, 10:15 AM
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Re: [riggerrob] Tandem before AFF [In reply to] Can't Post

I went through the Tandem progression at Hemet and loved it. I had done several Tandems for fun in the past but these were working jumps. I considered the extra cost, but in the long run I think it may have been cheaper. I didn't have to repeat any of the jumps and went right through the progression.

I just felt it was one less thing to worry about at the beginning. Even after having done tandems and being a private pilot. I figured the tandem master planned on going home in one piece at the end of the day so I would live through it also.

chuck
Canis meus id comedit



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