Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
Morbid Curiosity. Re: SkyHook

 

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Kramer  (B 27138)

Apr 10, 2005, 4:56 PM
Post #1 of 66 (3032 views)
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Morbid Curiosity. Re: SkyHook Can't Post

This is nothing but curiousity driven. (Roughly) what is the lowest you could cut away a main and land under a fully inflated reserve using a SkyHook RSL?

I just did my first few jumps on my new Vector (complete with a SkyHook), and I sorta want to know in the back of my mind exactly what that thing is capable of. Thanks.


(This post was edited by Kramer on Apr 10, 2005, 4:57 PM)


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Apr 10, 2005, 5:42 PM
Post #2 of 66 (2987 views)
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Re: [Kramer] Morbid Curiosity. Re: SkyHook [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
This is nothing but curiousity driven. (Roughly) what is the lowest you could cut away a main and land under a fully inflated reserve using a SkyHook RSL?

I just did my first few jumps on my new Vector (complete with a SkyHook), and I sorta want to know in the back of my mind exactly what that thing is capable of. Thanks.

There is only one way to find out for sure.ShockedBlush

Sparky


blitzkrieg

Apr 10, 2005, 6:09 PM
Post #3 of 66 (2964 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] Morbid Curiosity. Re: SkyHook [In reply to] Can't Post

there was a guy who cutaway the skyhook cutaway rig at about 150 ft or so. i don't think i would try that, but i can tell you that it gets your reserve out quick. i was recently under a spinning mal, and before my cutaway hand was fully extended i was under a perfectly square reserve.
Smile


masterrig  (D License)

Apr 10, 2005, 6:10 PM
Post #4 of 66 (2962 views)
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Re: [Kramer] Morbid Curiosity. Re: SkyHook [In reply to] Can't Post

You might call Relative workshop and get speak with one of their riggers. They'll be more than happy to answer your question. They'll have all the facts and figures of test results.


Chuck


larsrulz  (C 34603)

Apr 10, 2005, 6:18 PM
Post #5 of 66 (2951 views)
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Re: [Kramer] Morbid Curiosity. Re: SkyHook [In reply to] Can't Post

Should have attending Bill Booth's lecture at Skydive Chicago this weekend. He gave the figure of 100'. He showed two base jumpers doing it, which they estimated between 90-100'. One actually had time to unstow his toggles, the other not so much but he had an inflated canopy over his head! He also mentioned that a malfunctioning main and a fully inflated main will take the same amount of time and altitude to get a good reserve over your head, which was quite a shock to me!


BIGUN  (D 23385)

Apr 10, 2005, 6:51 PM
Post #6 of 66 (2930 views)
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Re: [Kramer] Morbid Curiosity. Re: SkyHook [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
(Roughly) what is the lowest you could cut away a main and land under a fully inflated reserve using a SkyHook RSL?

1001'


Kramer  (B 27138)

Apr 10, 2005, 7:22 PM
Post #7 of 66 (2902 views)
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Re: [larsrulz] Morbid Curiosity. Re: SkyHook [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Should have attending Bill Booth's lecture at Skydive Chicago this weekend. He gave the figure of 100'.
Wow. No kidding? Funny thing is, I was at SDC yesterday and saw him a few times, but wasn't able to attend his lecture.

Thanks for the replies everyone. Don't worry, I'm not planning on doing anything stupid. I just want to know what my gear is capable of.


Spizzzarko

Apr 10, 2005, 8:11 PM
Post #8 of 66 (2874 views)
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Re: [Kramer] Morbid Curiosity. Re: SkyHook [In reply to] Can't Post

Dude,

Don't be a dumb ass... Remember what your AFF JM's told you.. Don't cutaway below 1000'. Just fire the reserve. Go back to basics man, they will save your ass one day. Besides, other than a canopy colision why should you be cutting away that low? I had a friend die last summer from cutting away from line twists low. He impacted the earth at about the same time his reserve freebag did. Just because some new safety device comes out on the market, doesn't mean we can all go and lower our decision and cut away altitudes. Don't get me wrong, I really am impressed with the skyhook, but use it as a last resort.


Kramer  (B 27138)

Apr 10, 2005, 8:27 PM
Post #9 of 66 (2866 views)
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Re: [Spizzzarko] Morbid Curiosity. Re: SkyHook [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Don't be a dumb ass...

Wasn't aware I was being one.


(This post was edited by Kramer on Apr 10, 2005, 8:37 PM)


Spizzzarko

Apr 10, 2005, 9:02 PM
Post #10 of 66 (2841 views)
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Re: [Kramer] Morbid Curiosity. Re: SkyHook [In reply to] Can't Post

Didn't mean to imply that you were, but some of us who have been around for awhile, have just seen to much shit, and if we can prevent another Femur, Spinal, Compound, ECT ECT ECT we are going to do our best to do that.

It doesn't just hurt you, when you break yourself, it hurts the whole sport. It makes it hard to make close freinds when then people you associate with can get hurt badly and possibly killed. It doesn't help when those people dont listen to other people telling them that they are fucking up by the numbers.

So the moral of the story is to not do stupid things.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Apr 10, 2005, 11:16 PM
Post #11 of 66 (2800 views)
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Re: [larsrulz] Morbid Curiosity. Re: SkyHook [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
He also mentioned that a malfunctioning main and a fully inflated main will take the same amount of time and altitude to get a good reserve over your head, which was quite a shock to me!

It may take the same time but the altitude loss will depend on you vertical speed at the time of cutaway.

Sparky


diablopilot  (D License)

Apr 11, 2005, 7:18 AM
Post #12 of 66 (2659 views)
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Re: [blitzkrieg] Morbid Curiosity. Re: SkyHook [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
there was a guy who cutaway the skyhook cutaway rig at about 150 ft or so.

This is a perfect example of how a stunt under controled conditions when talked about can create ill advice.

The low cutaway you speak of was done with a reserve that was packed slider down.

Not trying to harp on you, just making sure the facts are out there.

Your reserve no matter how it's deployed is certified to open in 300 ft or 3 seconds.


pilotdave  (D License)

Apr 11, 2005, 7:30 AM
Post #13 of 66 (2648 views)
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Re: [Spizzzarko] Morbid Curiosity. Re: SkyHook [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Don't cutaway below 1000'. Just fire the reserve.

The idea of either cutting away below 1000' or firing the reserve into a malfunctioning main below 1000' scares the crap out of me and I hope I never need to do either one. But is firing the reserve without cutting away truly safer (say above 500') than cutting away with a skyhook-equipped rig? Sure the device is new and not well proven in the real world, but if it works properly, aren't ya better off cutting away? You lose the entaglement risk, and your reserve will open faster. There's definitely the possibility the skyhook will fail. But is that probability higher than the probability of an entanglement or slow reserve deployment?

I understand that the purpose of the skyhook is not to lower our hard deck, but rather to add to our safety margin. But under 1000', all bets are off. It's a question of what option has the highest probability of keeping me alive. I still don't know what that is though.

Dave


ChrisL  (C 35323)

Apr 11, 2005, 8:29 AM
Post #14 of 66 (2602 views)
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Re: [pilotdave] Morbid Curiosity. Re: SkyHook [In reply to] Can't Post

Personally I dont see the problem in asking what is the lowest you could theoretically cut away with a skyhook.
Knowing that it could still save your ass as low as 100' gives me more confidence in my equipment, it doesnt mean for a second that
I would delay a cutaway because I know it will open faster.

I like to know the limits and tolerances of all my gear and dont feel that inquiring about them deserves flippant answers like 1001' or Dont be a dumb ass

This includes cars, motorcycles, skydiving equipment, scuba gear, or whatever. If I pay extra $$ for extra functionality, I have every right to know what that extra expense purchased.


FrogNog  (C 34484)

Apr 11, 2005, 10:04 AM
Post #15 of 66 (2550 views)
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Re: [pilotdave] Morbid Curiosity. Re: SkyHook [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
if it works properly

That's my answer right there. If the skyhook works properly, one technique might be superior. And if it doesn't work properly and the jumper was counting on it doing so...


airtwardo  (D License)

Apr 11, 2005, 10:08 AM
Post #16 of 66 (2543 views)
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Re: [Kramer] Morbid Curiosity. Re: SkyHook [In reply to] Can't Post

The is a good vid at Skydivingmovies.com
showing some test jump footage...
Shows the SkyHook vs RSL...pretty dramatic in my opnion.


pilotdave  (D License)

Apr 11, 2005, 10:41 AM
Post #17 of 66 (2505 views)
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Re: [FrogNog] Morbid Curiosity. Re: SkyHook [In reply to] Can't Post

If I'm cutting away, I'm trusting my reserve system with my life, no matter what equipment I have. The skyhook is still fairly new. Is that the only reason NOT to trust that it will work as reliably as the rest of my reserve system?

Yeah, it's an RSL. It can fail for a lot of different reasons. I was taught not to trust it, or my Cypres, and always pull my reserve. But if I was LOW and couldn't land my main, I'd either take the risk that my reserve will entangle with my main or not fully inflate, or that my RSL will fail. Assuming my reserve really opens in 300 feet or less, I'd still have a shot after cutting away to get it out. Wouldn't wanna try that, but is it truly less safe than just firing the reserve without cutting away? Lets assume it's a nasty spinning malfunction caused by a suddenly damaged canopy.

Dave


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Apr 11, 2005, 11:04 AM
Post #18 of 66 (2484 views)
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Re: [pilotdave] Morbid Curiosity. Re: SkyHook [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Lets assume it's a nasty spinning malfunction caused by a suddenly damaged canopy.

Wow!! From what? Are you flying through a fireball or someone is shooting at you from the ground?

I think you should be open over 600m. I don`t think controllability check would take long. Is it so hard not to spun up and stall you canopy under 600m? Or what else can happen?


billbooth  (D 3546)

Apr 11, 2005, 11:04 AM
Post #19 of 66 (2484 views)
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Re: [Kramer] Morbid Curiosity. Re: SkyHook [In reply to] Can't Post

The first thing the Skyhook does is get your reserve to line stretch in about 1/2 a second. This is considerably faster than any pilot chute can do it. How many feet you will fall between cutaway and life saving reserve depends on how fast you were descending before the cutaway, and how fast your particular reserve opens. With most sport reserves, from a fully open main, far less than 100 feet is required.

The other (probably more important) thing the Skyhook does is put your reserve right where your main just was, or exactly in line the with the vertical axis of your body. This yields beautifully straight and even line groups at line stretch. A pilot chute, however, always deploys your reserve with the relative wind. This becomes a very important difference when you breakaway from a spinning malfunction. Without the Skyhook, you must "get stable" and align your body into the relative wind before it is safe to deploy your reserve, because if you deploy with the relative wind at an angle to your body, you risk entanglement with the deploying reserve, and you will have "unequal" reserve line lengths at line stretch, risking a spinning reserve opening with line twists. So, depending on the severity of your "spinner", just getting set up for a stable reserve deployment make take many hundreds of feet, and that's before you even pull the reserve ripcord. This means that you will have to deploy your reserve at, or near, terminal velocity (ouch). Add in a little pilot chute hesitation, and all this could eat up the better part of 1,000 feet. (Remember, the faster you are falling, the more altitude your reserve will take to open.) That's why most people recommend cutting away above a grand.

With the Skyhook however, reserve deployment starts immediately, and at line stretch, your reserve will be aligned perfectly with your body, with equal line lengths, even if you started with a spinning malfunction. And no pilot chute hesitation is possible. The difference here could be seven of eight hundred feet...and, you will be at the lowest possible airspeed. Fastest possible opening...lowest possible airspeed...highest possible altitude to avoid obstacles on the ground. What's not to like?


kelel01  (A License)

Apr 11, 2005, 11:08 AM
Post #20 of 66 (2478 views)
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Re: [phoenixlpr] Morbid Curiosity. Re: SkyHook [In reply to] Can't Post

Canopy collisions can happen, etc. I'm sure there are plenty of things that can happen to suddenly damage your canopy.


Premier skydiverek  (C 41769)

Apr 11, 2005, 11:18 AM
Post #21 of 66 (2471 views)
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Re: [billbooth] Morbid Curiosity. Re: SkyHook [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The first thing the Skyhook does is get your reserve to line stretch in about 1/2 a second. This is considerably faster than any pilot chute can do it...far less than 100 feet is required.

Unless you jump a Racer, where only 64ft is required from breakaway to fully open reserve Wink.


billbooth  (D 3546)

Apr 11, 2005, 12:03 PM
Post #22 of 66 (2443 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] Morbid Curiosity. Re: SkyHook [In reply to] Can't Post

Careful...some of the newer jumpers here might believe that..and actually try it.


Premier skydiverek  (C 41769)

Apr 11, 2005, 12:13 PM
Post #23 of 66 (2434 views)
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Re: [billbooth] Morbid Curiosity. Re: SkyHook [In reply to] Can't Post

True. There was a discussion about these 64 feet. My posts concerning it can be found here: http://www.dropzone.com/...p;sb=score&mh=25


mnealtx  (B 30496)

Apr 11, 2005, 12:13 PM
Post #24 of 66 (2433 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] Morbid Curiosity. Re: SkyHook [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
The first thing the Skyhook does is get your reserve to line stretch in about 1/2 a second. This is considerably faster than any pilot chute can do it...far less than 100 feet is required.

Unless you jump a Racer, where only 64ft is required from breakaway to fully open reserve Wink.

I'd have to see the video before I'd believe that....


Premier skydiverek  (C 41769)

Apr 11, 2005, 12:19 PM
Post #25 of 66 (2427 views)
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Re: [mnealtx] Morbid Curiosity. Re: SkyHook [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Unless you jump a Racer, where only 64ft is required from breakaway to fully open reserve Wink.

In reply to:
I'd have to see the video before I'd believe that....

Watch the commercials on "Breakaway" tape then. It's there.

My 64 ft comment was a tounge-in-cheek one. Check the link in my post (two posts above) for the full story on this controversial JumpShack commercial.


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