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Tandem Video Exits - inspiration wanted !

 

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sneaky

Apr 10, 2005, 10:41 AM
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Tandem Video Exits - inspiration wanted ! Can't Post

Hi

Apologies if this has been posted before, i have searched for this subject and cannot find.

I am playing with some exits with a good mate of mine, now we are not talking the standard exit, that we all know Wink, more along the lines of ' interesting ' linked exits, before droque deployment.

What exits technique do you do ?, describe the technique for both tandem pair and videoflyer. I am interested in methods that capture the feeling of the passenger from close up, if you have had any narly experiences Crazy please list. For reference we use Porter.Smile

Blue Skies


(This post was edited by sneaky on Apr 10, 2005, 10:41 AM)


StevePhelps  (D 26782)

Apr 10, 2005, 1:49 PM
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Re: [sneaky] Tandem Video Exits - inspiration wanted ! [In reply to] Can't Post

Dang! D license with ONE jump! Must have been a #$%&*@ of a jump!!WinkTongue

Devil jumper 666 (head down 999) CrazyTongueShocked


AggieDave  (D License)

Apr 10, 2005, 2:01 PM
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Re: [sneaky] Tandem Video Exits - inspiration wanted ! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
more along the lines of ' interesting ' linked exits, before droque deployment.

Why? Because you don't care about the safety of the tandem pair or you're bored or both?

Tandems aren't about you being entertained, they're about the student and the safety of the student.

Ever seen a sidespin? That TI ever been in a sidespin?


sneaky

Apr 10, 2005, 5:48 PM
Post #4 of 71 (3214 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] Tandem Video Exits - inspiration wanted ! [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok aggiedave... lets not enter a bitching session, your not qualified enough .. I have asked a straight question.. lets keep the thread open for experienced professonal skydivers..

side spin? from your experience, and jump numbers I guess you have had a lot of experience ... ( thats a joke )

So piss off .. dont use the forums for slagging or dissing people.. you dont know enough..

So again..

anyway so all you professional or semi Pro camera flyers...what exit technique do you use..?...


AggieDave  (D License)

Apr 10, 2005, 5:59 PM
Post #5 of 71 (3211 views)
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Re: [sneaky] Tandem Video Exits - inspiration wanted ! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
So piss off .. dont use the forums for slagging or dissing people.. you dont know enough..

Not trying to "slag" or "diss" anyone, simply stating that I'm not fond of camera guys trying to invent new stuff that's really putting the possible safety of my student (not to mention myself) in danger.


Since you don't have your experience listed I really wonder what you would consider "experienced enough." *shrug* What ever you want to believe man.


sneaky

Apr 10, 2005, 6:26 PM
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Re: [AggieDave] Tandem Video Exits - inspiration wanted ! [In reply to] Can't Post

If you where not trying to diss me, then why dont you clearly state in plain english exactly what you meant ? Theres too many people using this forum to blow chunks and spout steam.

Well you have your preference and god given right as tandem master, to dictate the skydive.. as do I.

Techniques and 'stuff' as u put it have been around longer than you, Cameraflyers worldwide have produced outstanding footage which shows this sport and promotes it to such a great extent that people feel the skydive, from the arm chair, and want to experience this incredible rush, therefore increasing the numbers of tandem skydives and newcomers to this sport every year. It is in our best interest to share experiences and techniques and grow as professionals, so we can keep the sport alive and make it easiler accessable to the average joe, and this all starts with promoting our sport and making it visually exciting. Do you want to be of this evolution?

i do, this is why I want to know what other Pro's are doing.

i dont need to tell you or anyone my experience, what i have or for how long is irrelevant. I dont need to bragg, jump numbers mean nothing to me... lets talk about how many you did last season?, then we can get into some real fiqures. So *shrug* whatever you want to believe.

if you have something interesting you want to share or contribute, then do so. Perhaps, just maybe, I can learn from you. then we contribute to what makes things great.

thankyou

Jordy


DaGimp  (D 26522)

Apr 10, 2005, 6:35 PM
Post #7 of 71 (3199 views)
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Re: [sneaky] Tandem Video Exits - inspiration wanted ! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
linked exits, before droque deployment

well for one, a "linked exit" is not permitted....depending on the rigs your jumping. We jusp RWS sigmas here, and according to RWS you can not touch a tandem, even as a video flyer, unless you are AFF or Tandem rated, and no intentional contact before drogue deployment.

Now im am a video flyer and TM here at my DZ..we primarily jump a super otter, and i leave front float, that gives me a great shot of the passengers face once they exit and the plane in the background.


ltdiver  (D 20506)

Apr 10, 2005, 6:46 PM
Post #8 of 71 (3189 views)
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Re: [DaGimp] Tandem Video Exits - inspiration wanted ! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
well for one, a "linked exit" is not permitted

Agreed.

Tandem students are unpredictable at best. Some come out and arch like an angel, as they are taught. Some grab your ass....Tongue. Some ball up like a baby and scream! Some come out straight and stiff like a board....etc, etc, etc.

How'd any cameraflyer like to be the cause of -more- shit hitting the fan with these folks, if he/she insists on making linked exits with the pair. Unimpressed

ltdiver


AggieDave  (D License)

Apr 10, 2005, 6:49 PM
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Re: [sneaky] Tandem Video Exits - inspiration wanted ! [In reply to] Can't Post

The rules set by my rating organization and manufacture's requirements (linked exits are not permitted), my qualms stand with folks basically launching and flying FF positions on tandems with "live students" which isn't really the best thing to do on a tandem skydive.

I look at it as whats the purpose of the skydive? Well, baring a CatA/CatB tandem, its an introductory skydive, like an introductory flight for flight instructors. You teach some basics (like a very basic body position) and you introduce your student to what skydiving (in general) feels like and looks like. The primary concern of the TI is the safety of the student and intentionally leaving unstable (unstable being a position in which you can't fly belly to the relative wind then toss the drogue) is creating a situation in which many things can go wrong. I'm sure you've seen a student that freaked on exit create intense problems for the TI before.

With that stated, I view linked exits as a similar problem. There are 3 basic ways to have a linked exit. The video guy holds on to the student, the TI or the rig. All three create a situation in which with a bad student things could go very very wrong.

I'm very much interested in promoting our sport and advancing the sport; however, as I've seen a whuffo completing their very first tandem skydive has as good of an experience with a safe and effective skydive even without adding any "flare" that could potentially create a very unsafe situation.


Quote:
Theres too many people using this forum to blow chunks and spout steam.

I will tell you sincerely that the only place I do that is in Speaker's Corner and its usually (90%) of the time, only for my humor.


(This post was edited by AggieDave on Apr 10, 2005, 6:50 PM)


davelepka  (D 21448)

Apr 11, 2005, 6:06 AM
Post #10 of 71 (3131 views)
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Re: [sneaky] Tandem Video Exits - inspiration wanted ! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
this is why I want to know what other Pro's are doing

You've got quite the attitude jackass.

If you or your buddy had any skills, you wouldn't need a link. Taking grips is for guys who can't fly their slot. Get a clue.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Apr 11, 2005, 9:16 AM
Post #11 of 71 (3088 views)
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Re: [davelepka] Tandem Video Exits - inspiration wanted ! [In reply to] Can't Post

I am going to weigh in on Aggie Dave's side of the argument.
Tandem is difficult and dangerous enough without complicating the exit.

As for my experience level ... I did 350 tandems last year and took 200 videos.


pope  (D 19947)

Apr 11, 2005, 10:05 AM
Post #12 of 71 (3077 views)
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Re: [sneaky] Tandem Video Exits - inspiration wanted ! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Hi

Apologies if this has been posted before, i have searched for this subject and cannot find.

I am playing with some exits with a good mate of mine, now we are not talking the standard exit, that we all know Wink, more along the lines of ' interesting ' linked exits, before droque deployment.

What exits technique do you do ?, describe the technique for both tandem pair and videoflyer. I am interested in methods that capture the feeling of the passenger from close up, if you have had any narly experiences Crazy please list. For reference we use Porter.Smile

Blue Skies

You are correct that the goal of a video flyer when filming a tandem should be to "capture the feeling of the passenger," but a linked exit isn't a good way to do that. As others have said here, most TI's won't go for it, and it's really not safe, especially not knowing what the passenger wil do.

That being said, and to answer your question, the PROs will exit with the tandem, keeping their passenger perfectly framed the entire time, staying relative to the tandem pair the entire time. They will not get much horizontal/vertical seperation on the hill. A PRO will anticipate the drouge throw and compensate for the fall rate change BEFORE it happens, so as not to change the framing of the student. A PRO knows how tandem rigs work and knows FAA/USPA/manufacturer regs on tandem safety/operations, and how NOT to violate them. A PRO video flyer will not only FLY his slot, and GET THE SHOTS, but he will also communicate with the TI, before, during, and after the jump(s). A PRO will take responsibility for his own BAD SPOTS, MISSED SHOTS, and other FUCK UPS.

Bottom line is that the best thing you can do for improving your shots is learn how to fly on all axes, by doing as many jumps as possible. There is no substitue for experience.
You'll get those shots you're looking for if you practice. If you are ever unfortunate enough to see a tandem go wrong from a Vidiots perspective, you'll change your opinion about video flyer/TI safety.

Remember that any added factor to a skydive makes it that much more likely for something to go wrong--that includes adding a videographer.

As for specific exits, depending on the aircraft, try getting LOW in the back of the door or from the front float position. with both hands on the back edge of the door (or the front edge of the door for front float). You should be as far back from the passenger as possible and preferably looking slightly UP at their face. Lead the TI a split second and instantly spring forward on exit, rolling into a back tracking position, flying up the prop blast/relative wind on the hill (if you wear wings, hide them for this part to avoid seperation) this will be a bit more difficult from a Porter, but you'll manage. As the tandem accelerates past you you should transition to a head down positon to stay a bit below them, getting ready for the drouge throw. At that point, you transition to whatever position you want to film the tandem in next, as you should be just off the hill at that point. A sit flying position is totally natural from here.

here's a short example video (this one's from front float, but you get the idea).

---------------->click here for video<------------------


oldgit  (D 10432)

Apr 11, 2005, 11:38 AM
Post #13 of 71 (3052 views)
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Re: [sneaky] Tandem Video Exits - inspiration wanted ! [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey Dude
Is that you Jordy Cross stiring the S**T !!!! again

JohnMad


sneaky

Apr 11, 2005, 11:51 AM
Post #14 of 71 (3044 views)
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Re: [oldgit] Tandem Video Exits - inspiration wanted ! [In reply to] Can't Post

Me? innocent Me ? Naah.... never.... john you fat old shit? how the hell are you !!

Any part of your body with skin visible I want to see it !! And Im not talking about your head !

Yeah I am getting a beasting here from all the goodie goodie know it alls... but what can I expect eh? a place to discuss a topic becomes a battle ground of ' I know this and blah blah blah wibble wibble '

Your banging the jumps out eh... good effort.

Give my regards to the lads, and a special 'Hello" to the lovely sharon !


skydog  (D 567)

Apr 11, 2005, 11:59 AM
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Re: [AggieDave] Tandem Video Exits - inspiration wanted ! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
more along the lines of ' interesting ' linked exits, before droque deployment.

Why? Because you don't care about the safety of the tandem pair or you're bored or both?

Tandems aren't about you being entertained, they're about the student and the safety of the student.

Ever seen a sidespin? That TI ever been in a sidespin?

What makes me laugh is that no-one batted an eyelid when the video of the Golden Knights tandem team was posted.

It shows linked exits from an otter. The camera guy then lets go and redocks underneath with his feet.

So whats the beef now?

As long as its safe and controlled whats the problem?

Bryn


oldgit  (D 10432)

Apr 11, 2005, 12:06 PM
Post #16 of 71 (3031 views)
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Re: [sneaky] Tandem Video Exits - inspiration wanted ! [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey man everyones doing great.
Sharon says hi she keeps expecting you to sneak out of the bushes just like old times.
What u been up to apart from taking the piss
John


sneaky

Apr 11, 2005, 12:11 PM
Post #17 of 71 (3029 views)
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Re: [skydog] Tandem Video Exits - inspiration wanted ! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
What makes me laugh is that no-one batted an eyelid when the video of the Golden Knights tandem team was posted.

It shows linked exits from an otter. The camera guy then lets go and redocks underneath with his feet.

So whats the beef now?

As long as its safe and controlled whats the problem?


Thanks skydog, nice input. A sad case of ' do as I say and not as I do ' This thread was started with the good intention to share experiences and has turned into something other than what the origional subject was. I have had a few PM's from people telling me not too bother posting a subject because of the way it always turns into a bitch session.

Thankyou to everyone for sharing their thoughts and the positive input is much appriciated. Blue Skies


sneaky

Apr 11, 2005, 12:21 PM
Post #18 of 71 (3020 views)
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Re: [oldgit] Tandem Video Exits - inspiration wanted ! [In reply to] Can't Post

Stagging on as usual fella, doing a nice little number with some foreign ' you know who' types.

Going to namibia soon to film a project, will be avaliable for viewing on a TV station near you soon.

hows the jumping going? I heard your busy with Tandems?


AggieDave  (D License)

Apr 11, 2005, 5:51 PM
Post #19 of 71 (2968 views)
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Re: [skydog] Tandem Video Exits - inspiration wanted ! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
What makes me laugh is that no-one batted an eyelid when the video of the Golden Knights tandem team was posted.

I never saw that video.

Even the "top dogs" break the rules sometimes, each time I don't appreciate it. Sort of like Bill Booth taking his underage daughter on a tandem, but then his company will rank the TI's rating for doing the same.Mad


airborne82nd  (C License)

Apr 11, 2005, 9:15 PM
Post #20 of 71 (2942 views)
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Re: [sneaky] Tandem Video Exits - inspiration wanted ! [In reply to] Can't Post

Sneaky sorry so many asses feel the need to speak up the gospel here if they have nothing to add they should start their own thread.

exactly do as i say. not as i right

agiedave and the others crying about saftey cant be for real. do thy think we want to get someone hurt??

i hear them say you cant dock unless your a tandem master ect... what ever give us all a bull shit break

holding a hand on exit is nothing of course the camera guy will let go if he sees anything wrong,

most of the cam guys can outfly tandem guys and especially if they have a stduent under them. i here crap about you cant jump with tandems unless your a tandem instructor o come on. I have a secret for you. 1. Filming tandems is very easy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! try filming free flyers. it a dope on a rope not hard at all, see folks building rounds on tandems ect.. have the student hold your feet while you back fly ect..

now that sample exit video by pope was nice but ill tell you i can post better exits then that i have better videos then that. but it is a good video.

i can not stand the pick a part posters who love to argue based on there own convictions and act like eveyone should think the way they do or your dangerous.

well if you have nothing to add, nothing nice to say, and you have differnet convictions then dont post. respect to disagree but dont be an ass and try to argue every damn point soeone trys to make.

the topic was great and sneaky i am sorry so many asses had to crap all over the post.

oh i forgot how many side spins killed tandems last year HUH!!!!!!!!!! none!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! as i remeber equipment failure harness and canopy killed a couple. no linked camera man induced side spins deaths.

again jumping with a tandems is easy, filming very easy some of us think no one else can do it, how ignorent.


(This post was edited by airborne82nd on Apr 11, 2005, 9:22 PM)


crazydiver  (D 28022)

Apr 11, 2005, 11:16 PM
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Re: [airborne82nd] Tandem Video Exits - inspiration wanted ! [In reply to] Can't Post

Jump a tandem. It's not "easy." The concept seems simple, but the process is really more than you think. If your profile is updated, it tells me that you aren't an instructor or coach of any kind. It also shows that you have 280 some jumps. Sure, i only have 600 some jumps, but i have the rating. I am not speaking as an experienced tandem instructor but as simply a tandem instructor and someone who realizes that I know less now at 650 jumps than I thought I knew at 200 jumps. Skydiving is not a place for egoes...even though the sport is swarming with them. And to sneak...people are responding in negative manners because you responded with a negative "fuck everyone against me" attitude. I'm not going to say I haven't done linked exits with tandems. HOWEVER...I am going to say that as a videographer and tandem instructor, its asking for issues. Exit is THE MOST crucial part of a tandem skydive. Once the drogue is out, the risk factor is drastically decreased, while still very apparent. If a tandem instructor and videographer are both willing to do something that is legal, go for it, but that doesn't keep it from being dangerous. Swooping is dangerous, but very legal.


(This post was edited by crazydiver on Apr 11, 2005, 11:30 PM)


Mixoligist  (D 26787)

Apr 12, 2005, 12:18 AM
Post #22 of 71 (2898 views)
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Re: [airborne82nd] Tandem Video Exits - inspiration wanted ! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I have a secret for you. 1. Filming tandems is very easy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! try filming free flyers. it a dope on a rope not hard at all, see folks building rounds on tandems ect.. have the student hold your feet while you back fly ect..

now that sample exit video by pope was nice but ill tell you i can post better exits then that i have better videos then that. but it is a good video..............filming very easy some of us think no one else can do it, how ignorent.[/repl



Are you available for coaching?Laugh


davelepka  (D 21448)

Apr 12, 2005, 5:29 AM
Post #23 of 71 (2869 views)
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Re: [airborne82nd] Tandem Video Exits - inspiration wanted ! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
holding a hand on exit is nothing of course the camera guy will let go if he sees anything wrong,

Sweet. Be sure to post the video when the student freaks and takes a death grip on your head.

Quote:
most of the cam guys can outfly tandem guys and especially if they have a stduent under them.

Thats quite the conclusion Einstien. Seeing as TM's are as mobile as a fish out of water, I should hope you can outfly them. Actually, they should hope you can outfly them, as it's your job.

Again, the real point here is that is you have the skills, you should be able to fly your slot without the grip. If you need to hold on to stay tight, you shouldn't be that close anyway.

Here's your problem, you don't know shit. With 280-some jumps, how many tandem videos could you possibly have? 180? 200 tops? How many DZ's have you worked at? How many TM's have you jumped with? How many different tandem systems have you filmed (yes, they are different)?

I'm glad you know so much so soon. You won't be jumping that long anyway, so it's good you got the 411 so quickly.


DaGimp  (D 26522)

Apr 12, 2005, 7:12 AM
Post #24 of 71 (2848 views)
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Re: [airborne82nd] Tandem Video Exits - inspiration wanted ! [In reply to] Can't Post

wit ha name like airborne82nd, i take it you learned in NC....and i surely hope you jump at raeford, because there are only two Videographers at Raeford wit hthe exception of the golden knights, that are even worth a damn! And if you jump there and you think you are...well your not!! Who ever you are, if you think your the shit because tony has used you one or two weekends, its because myself or Arvel were not there.


Now, disclaimer.....if you dont jump at raeford, then i dont know you and i have no clue how you fly, but still at 280 jumps i think you are far from an expert on this topic.


BlueSBDeath  (D 10160)

Apr 12, 2005, 9:41 AM
Post #25 of 71 (2809 views)
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Re: [airborne82nd] Tandem Video Exits - inspiration wanted ! [In reply to] Can't Post

My friend, I hope you live to be my age and are still in the sport, because then you will realize just how bad your post sounds. (This could be troll)

Please stay safe, and stay at the DZ you are at, we don't want you at ours.

Arvel


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