Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Swooping and Canopy Control:
PPPB Event Results

 

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Canuck

Jun 4, 2002, 7:23 AM
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     PPPB Event Results  

A few question for anybody who might have been at the latest swoop comp:

1. 418 feet!!! Was that through 4 foot entry gates!? That is some mad swoop!

2. Anybody know what canopy Jason Peters was flying (4th in distance)? He had been jumping a Crossfire 102 in previous competitions, but his canopy isn't listed on the Para-Performance website.

3. Where are all the Atair boys? Chuck?

Canuck




eames  (D 23844)

Jun 4, 2002, 9:05 AM
Post #2 of 58 (3009 views)
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     Re: PPPB Event Results [In reply to]  

5 foot entry gates, yes. Yep, it was a mad swoop. I saw it from under canopy as I was coming in... I saw Shanon fly out the back of the course and thought, "He must have gotten a vertical!"

Crossfire XXX... sorry, didn't catch the size.

????

Jason



jdhill  (D License)

Jun 4, 2002, 9:12 AM
Post #3 of 58 (3006 views)
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     Re: PPPB Event Results [In reply to]  

Hey Jason,

How was it playing with the big boys? I couldn't make everything come together to get back out there... looks like there was some stiff comp this time...

was that distance run in a downwind?

Josh

http://www.aerialfusion.com


weid14  (D 20292)

Jun 4, 2002, 9:17 AM
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     Re: PPPB Event Results [In reply to]  

do you know if shannon and Ian were jumping standard risers?



ramon  (D 26115)

Jun 4, 2002, 9:21 AM
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     1 Atair boy [In reply to]  

Eric Butz is in Houston. He told me this weekend he is tired and taking a little break this summer. He was doing tandems and freeflying with us and of course the mad swoops under his Cobalt.

Big dude, little canopy...watch out...He really shuts that little thing down though.

ramon



eames  (D 23844)

Jun 4, 2002, 9:26 AM
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     Re: PPPB Event Results [In reply to]  

Whew.... yeah, it's a whole different level, man! Other than tyeing for sixth in target accuracy, I didn't make much of a mark. But I think I did well being the newbie and all.

The distance was run in a slight downwind (maybe 5mph), maybe even a touch of crosswind. Like I said in another post, it felt like we were also getting some lift from some thermal action (although I didn't take advantage). 418, totally legit, no gimmicks, no quirks. THAT will be a hard record to beat.... I believe he did it with the Velocity 103 with weights (somewhere in the 2.1 range).

Jason



eames  (D 23844)

Jun 4, 2002, 9:30 AM
Post #7 of 58 (2992 views)
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     Re: PPPB Event Results [In reply to]  

In reply to:
do you know if shannon and Ian were jumping standard risers?
Standard? As standard as they get at a swoop meet I guess.... Shanon had something sewn on to hold his slider, but that's all I noticed. Jay has a pretty interesting setup, but you'd have to ask him about it directly....

Jason



weid14  (D 20292)

Jun 4, 2002, 9:36 AM
Post #8 of 58 (2987 views)
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     Re: PPPB Event Results [In reply to]  

Shannon and Ian were experimenting with differetn riser set ups -- was wondering if they had used that or not, that's a long ass swoop!



hooknswoop  (D License)

Jun 4, 2002, 9:51 AM
Post #9 of 58 (2981 views)
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     Re: PPPB Event Results [In reply to]  

"A few question for anybody who might have been at the latest swoop comp:"

I have one too.

5. What was the stand-up/crash/not-stand-up ratio for landings?

Hook



eames  (D 23844)

Jun 4, 2002, 10:31 AM
Post #10 of 58 (2966 views)
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     Re: PPPB Event Results [In reply to]  

In reply to:
5. What was the stand-up/crash/not-stand-up ratio for landings?
Do you really think that any of the Pro competitiors has trouble with standup landings? Many don't even try. A lot of the time it's safer to slide it in. There were very few crashes. It's just like for the rest of the skydiving world... PLF (or equivalent) unless it's safe to stand up. Why do you ask? Do you think a person is safer because he stands up every landing? Sometimes the wind goes with the course (they don't intentionally set it up downwind, but they don't change the direction of the course just because the wind changes). They'll stop competition if the winds get above 12 mph or so, but you might end up coming in on a 10 mph downwind. I'd like to see you do your fastest landing on your VX 60 loaded at 3.1 and stand up your landing. I'm sure everyone would get a good laugh out of that one.

Jason



hooknswoop  (D License)

Jun 4, 2002, 11:03 AM
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"I'd like to see you do your fastest landing on your VX 60 loaded at 3.1 and stand up your landing. "

Every time, stand up. Ask anyone who has seen me swoop.

I ask because I was curious. I could go break the 418 ft record easily, w/ a 40+ mph tailwind, but I would probably get hurt and I wouldn't stand it up. My feeling is that the winners of swoop competitions, for the most part, are the ones willing to take the biggest risk. I am just not as impressed w/ a long swoop if they crater the landing. I don't think swoop competetions or pushing the envolope are bad. They do good things for the sport and help educate jumpers on canopy control and canopy choices. I just worry that up and coming jumpers will watch a swoop competition and think it is OK to hook it downwind and crash and burn. I don't think any injury is acceptable. When the crowds are watching, the cameras are on, and money, bragging rights, and egos are on the line, people tend to do things and make descions they normally wouldn't. Look at demos. We gotta be careful out there.

Hook



eames  (D 23844)

Jun 4, 2002, 11:31 AM
Post #12 of 58 (2947 views)
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In reply to:
Every time, stand up. Ask anyone who has seen me swoop.
Look, I don't doubt your ability, but just for your information: Shannon Pilcher swooped 418 ft starting on five foot entry gates with, at most, a 5mph downwind... and he stood it up. No crater, no injury. In fact, the winners in these events last weekend, mostly stood up their landings, and the ones that weren't standup were slid in... very safely. There were some minor crashes, but that'll happen anyway. Overall, it was some of the safest skydiving I've seen. I think you have some ego thing going on with stand-up landings. Do you criticize your AFF students for doing a PLF?

Which competition was run in 40+ mph winds? None. Who made a crater? Nobody. Maybe you're talking about some competition that I wasn't at....

If you think you could break any record easily, in any wind... why don't you come out and try. I want to see it. You're not shy are you? Just jump when the winds are light-- nobody will give you shit for not negotiating a course with too much downwind. Safety is paramount.

Yes, we have to be careful out there.

Jason



eames  (D 23844)

Jun 4, 2002, 12:14 PM
Post #13 of 58 (2937 views)
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In reply to:
"I'd like to see you do your fastest landing on your VX 60 loaded at 3.1 and stand up your landing. "

Every time, stand up. Ask anyone who has seen me swoop.
BTW, I meant with a 10 mph downwind on a course.... especially at Perris. The result would be some road rash and a big dust cloud.

Jason





freeflir29  (D 10000000)

Jun 4, 2002, 1:42 PM
Post #14 of 58 (2911 views)
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Don't make me turn this car around!!!!! Laugh

"Here I come to save the BOOBIES!"


hooknswoop  (D License)

Jun 4, 2002, 1:53 PM
Post #15 of 58 (2904 views)
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"Look, I don't doubt your ability, but just for your information: Shannon Pilcher swooped 418 ft starting on five foot entry gates with, at most, a 5mph downwind... and he stood it up. No crater, no injury. In fact, the winners in these events last weekend, mostly stood up their landings, and the ones that weren't standup were slid in... very safely. There were some minor crashes, but that'll happen anyway. Overall, it was some of the safest skydiving I've seen. I think you have some ego thing going on with stand-up landings. Do you criticize your AFF students for doing a PLF?"

That is why I asked, the ratio of stand-ups/crash/non-stand-ups, because I didn't know the answer and was wondering. It is not an ego thing w/ the stand-ups, it is my self-imposed limits. I figure that if I can't stand it up, I'm in over my head, again, my personal limits.

My point is if the best canopy pilot in the world isn't willing to jump in winds that would require him to slide in and the second best is, then the second best wins.

"If you think you could break any record easily, in any wind... why don't you come out and try. I want to see it. You're not shy are you? Just jump when the winds are light-- nobody will give you shit for not negotiating a course with too much downwind. Safety is paramount. "

Have a competition where the rules are that for a run to count the jumper has to stand up and the landing and I will attend.

This is only my opinion, and I don't think it is the popular opinion. I think on this one, I am in the minority, most people agree with you Jason, and that is OK. I don't think this is a matter of right or wrong, just personal opinion. I don't think you are wrong, simply that we disagree.

Hook



hooknswoop  (D License)

Jun 4, 2002, 1:54 PM
Post #16 of 58 (2904 views)
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"BTW, I meant with a 10 mph downwind on a course.... especially at Perris. The result would be some road rash and a big dust cloud."

I wouldn't go downwind in a 10 mph wind.

Hook



jdhill  (D License)

Jun 4, 2002, 2:18 PM
Post #17 of 58 (2893 views)
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In reply to:
Have a competition where the rules are that for a run to count the jumper has to stand up and the landing and I will attend.
I Might be wrong but, I believe this is a rule in the USPA Sport Accuracy event.


http://www.aerialfusion.com


hooknswoop  (D License)

Jun 4, 2002, 2:21 PM
Post #18 of 58 (2890 views)
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I ment a swoop comp. Hence the "for a _run_ to count". Sport accuracy comp isn't something I am interested in doing.

Hook



rhino  (D 22500)

Jun 4, 2002, 4:39 PM
Post #19 of 58 (2860 views)
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I kind of think standup landings should be mandentory for the swoop to count in competition.

Hook, I haven't seen you do anything but standups? Even when you went over the pond, around the kids and over the power box at 60 mph, you stood it up no problem? Smile

Kind of like telling a pro golfer he doesn't have to make his one foot putt...

Rhino

Blue Skies ..... Wink



rhino  (D 22500)

Jun 4, 2002, 4:41 PM
Post #20 of 58 (2858 views)
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I'll put 50 bucks on Hook.. He would stand it up in a 10mph wind....

Blue Skies ..... Wink



hookit  (D 24838)

Jun 4, 2002, 4:47 PM
Post #21 of 58 (2854 views)
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In reply to:
If you think you could break any record easily, in any wind... why don't you come out and try.
I don't believe that's what he said. He said he could do better than 418 feet in a 40 mph wind meaning that, if he were willing to downwind it with a 40 mph tailwind he could beat the distance record. His point being that he's not willing to downwind it in a 40 mph tailwind for risk of injury.

-Trey



Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

Jun 4, 2002, 5:00 PM
Post #22 of 58 (2851 views)
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In reply to:
3. Where are all the Atair boys? Chuck?
Eric is in Texas working and chilling. I was here at home tending to my wife, who sustained a pretty bad concussion in the wind tunnel two Thursdays ago preparing for a four-way meet. Bryan Harrell competed in the pro event with a VX-74 that he borrowed from Wyatt Drews.

We will all be at The Ranch for the Pond Swoop Nationals as a unit. Not sure what will be over our heads yet. Eric and I are both planning on competing at Lyle's event over 4th of July weekend.

Also, just so everyone knows: we, as a group, don't fall down or crash and burn hardly ever on non-competition swoops. I slide to a stop on my feet each and every time. I also do not wear motocross pants for anything but competition, nor do any other competitors I have ever met at their home DZ. Protective gear should not be mocked, though, and those with the nuts to hook the piss out of it over a lake, through a very narrow, curving airblade course with nothing but busted up rocks and gravel as a runoff know it's importance. Lord knows my gear has paid for itself several times in the past year. Wanna see a good pic of what happens is you forget your pads? Check the team-method website and look at the swoop meet photos. There is a lovely one of Jim Slaton's leg in there (I am the one geeking the camera like I was going to lick it). Hey, this is a high risk sport and even the very best swoopers in the world will have an occasional gnarly stop when conditions get funky. Why? Because we push the limits and are willing to pay the price for a chance at that prize money. Competition is not for everyone, but it is where records are set and regional trends and techniques are put to the test. It is also where the great majority of paid coaches/ instructors come from since there is no $600 "swoop instructor" course USPA or Olav Zipser Winkoffers.
As for wind limitations and such, the only meet I ever saw where it was run in excessive downwind (over 20mph) was the one at Sky's the Limit in Newton, NJ last year. Eric and Jay Moledski slid it out all the way to the trees. As for myself, I will not blink twice at downwinders up to about 10 mph so long as the landing area is smooth, and no, I don't fall; I am a slider.

Chuck



My webpage HERE


jdhill  (D License)

Jun 4, 2002, 5:22 PM
Post #23 of 58 (2841 views)
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In reply to:
I kind of think standup landings should be mandentory for the swoop to count in competition.
Then I recommend setting up your own comp... The folks that have taken the time and trouble to set up the events we have now (PPPB, PSN, and a few others) have chosen to not include that in the rules... If you want to play in those event, you play by those rules... If you want differnet rules you can either try to get them to change their (not likely) or you can invent your own comp. Those guys are don't have all the rights to setting up swoop events, they are just the ones who have taken the time to think them up, set them up, and market them.

Peace.

Josh



http://www.aerialfusion.com


rhino  (D 22500)

Jun 4, 2002, 6:07 PM
Post #24 of 58 (2832 views)
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Josh,

Maybe I will set my own swoop meet then!!! Smile

Thanks for the rec!!

Seriously.. If you can't stand up it doesn't count in my book.. Damn the slide.. Either land on your feet or bust..

Blue Skies ..... Wink



prost  (D 24959)

Jun 4, 2002, 6:53 PM
Post #25 of 58 (2818 views)
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Where were all of the guys that fly a Xaos? I think jason was the only one and he is new. You would think they would have had some 27's in the comp since they released it just now.

William



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