Forums: Skydiving: Incidents:
Fatality at Perris - 05 March 2005

 

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Bigwallmaster

Mar 7, 2005, 10:22 AM
Post #26 of 246 (4271 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] Fatality at Perris [In reply to] Can't Post

Her own gear. Does it matter?

-jp-

----------------------------------------------------

. . . .I think it does. I feel that when you consistently jump the same gear you get to know it better. What I mean is that your handles will tend to always be in the same place. When jumping rented gear the handles may sit higher or lower or further back on your ribcage, which could create a problem for the new jumper trying to locate the handles during a mal. The pilot chute might be bigger or smaller and therfore has a different pack volume when stuffed in the stow pocket. It's just an opinion, but that's my 2 cents.


Premier Tonto  (D 515)
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Mar 7, 2005, 11:24 AM
Post #27 of 246 (4098 views)
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Re: [laurie] Fatality at Perris - 05 March 2005 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Please people, practice your emergency procedures!!!

I'm seeing a lot of this in this thread.

Please people - know where your main deployment device is.

And use it.

Then, if it doesn't work - by all means go to your emergency procedures.

t


linestretch  (D 21060)

Mar 7, 2005, 11:29 AM
Post #28 of 246 (4081 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] Fatality at Perris [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
was she jumping her own gear?

Her own gear. Does it matter?


Have you ever heard "borrowed gear kills"?


TypicalFish

Mar 7, 2005, 11:34 AM
Post #29 of 246 (4061 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] Fatality at Perris [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
So terribly sad, I was aquainted with the jumper. Rest in Peace, my friend.

As a "relative newbie" technical question, is this type of outcome (no CYPRES fire, nothing out) common? It seems to me that I read alot about hook turns, partial mals, etc., but not like this.

With the limited information available it is hard to say what happened. So I could not say if this "type" of thing is common.
It is too early to draw conclusions or speculate on the reason or cause of this incident. I will post more facts if and when I get them as I am sure others will. But lets deal in facts not guesses.
The one thing we know for sure is a young women died tragically. Gods speed.

Sparky

I agree completely; just as a quick clarification; my question was more "general" in nature as opposed to pertinent to the cause of her accident.

Godspeed, Michelle.


dgskydive  (C 25738)

Mar 7, 2005, 12:18 PM
Post #30 of 246 (3951 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] Fatality at Perris - 05 March 2005 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Two way coach dive.
Nothing out on impact.
Reserve P/C and bag on ground next to jump but it is unknown if loop broke on impact.
Cypres on but did not fire. (second hand infor. needs to be confirmed)
approximately 60 jumps.

Not to split hairs with ya Spark, just to make sure the infi is correct.

This was not a coached jump. She was jumping with a friend that holds no ratings. Just a plane old 2 way.

She did have a Cypres and reports are that it was armed, but did not fire. I am sure that info willcome from that.


(This post was edited by dgskydive on Mar 7, 2005, 12:21 PM)


dgskydive  (C 25738)

Mar 7, 2005, 12:31 PM
Post #31 of 246 (3892 views)
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Re: [tbrown] Fatality at Perris [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
t. But they're not foolproof and anyone who trusts their Cypres to save their ass is kidding themself. It's a BACKUP for when we really fuck up, or have been knocked out cold.

Good point. There where a few people at Perris already talking about that. the Cypres is an electronic device \. They don't always work.

She may have set it at home, and that would explain why it didn't fire. We will have to wait and see what somes back from that.


dgskydive  (C 25738)

Mar 7, 2005, 12:42 PM
Post #32 of 246 (3854 views)
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Re: [Bigwallmaster] Fatality at Perris [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Her own gear. Does it matter?

THat is a valid question. New system may have given her trouble.

That is not the case though. This was her gear.


dqpacker  (D 32043)

Mar 7, 2005, 12:54 PM
Post #33 of 246 (3803 views)
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Re: [dgskydive] Fatality at Perris [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Her own gear. Does it matter?

THat is a valid question. New system may have given her trouble.

That is not the case though. This was her gear.
How many jumps on this rig?


laurie  (D 25869)

Mar 7, 2005, 12:57 PM
Post #34 of 246 (3796 views)
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Re: [dqpacker] Fatality at Perris [In reply to] Can't Post

Somewhere between 30 to 40.


VanillaSkyGirl

Mar 7, 2005, 1:11 PM
Post #35 of 246 (3756 views)
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Re: [dgskydive] Fatality at Perris [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Her own gear. Does it matter?

THat is a valid question. New system may have given her trouble.

That is not the case though. This was her gear.
I had been wondering about that...or whether her rig fit her properly with her handles where they should be at pull time, since this was a freefly jump. See THIS thread. She seems to have had a similar situation in her past...about a year ago. See this picture of my rig attached. This is why I don't freefly. Perhaps she also had a rig that is ill-fitting for freefly?

If the rig isn't fitting properly and the handles had moved enough, is it possible that even her reserve handle could have shifted and become trapped underneath her torso somehow. I think that for me, although my rig seems ok on the ground...there is a lot of shifting if I try to do non-belly flying in the sky due to loose lateral straps and loose leg straps (bungee cord doesn't help me). Is this a possibility (extreme shifting of rig) as to why the reserve or main handles were not easily found and pulled? Or, is it undetermined if her reserve and main handles were pulled? Where were BOTH her handles upon impact? Does anyone know?

Also, I am still curious as to her currency. When was the last time that she was in a hanging harness? Was she ever observed practicing Emergency Procedures on the plane or prior to jumping?
Attachments: Sidebody-close.jpg (59.1 KB)


dgskydive  (C 25738)

Mar 7, 2005, 1:12 PM
Post #36 of 246 (3753 views)
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Re: [btucker] Fatality at Perris - 05 March 2005 [In reply to] Can't Post

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Posted on Mon, Mar. 07, 2005

Woman dies in skydive

By Ellyn Pak

ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER

PERRIS - A Huntington Beach woman died Saturday when her parachute failed to open during a skydive in Riverside County.

Susan Spray, 33, fell to her death into an open field adjacent to the Perris Valley Airport and Parachuting Center, Riverside County officials said. Rescuers arrived at the scene at about 1 p.m. and found her body.

Officials are trying to determine whether Spray's parachute malfunctioned or if she failed to deploy it, officials said.

Since the newspaper has let the cat out of the bag. So everyone knows Sara (Michelle we called her) was known as THEMITCHYONE here on DZ.com

She was a really sweet girl. Very wuite and unassuming. This sport was (IMHO) bringing her out of her shell so to speak.


dgskydive  (C 25738)

Mar 7, 2005, 1:42 PM
Post #37 of 246 (3649 views)
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Re: [VanillaSkyGirl] Fatality at Perris [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If the rig isn't fitting properly and the handles had moved enough, is it possible that even her reserve handle could have shifted and become trapped underneath her torso somehow

Possible, but I am pretty sure that is not the case here.

Speaking of handles moving around in freefall. I wonderhow many people out there have never touched there handles in Freefall. From time to time i will touch them while tracking away from a formation to see where they are. They do move and I think it is a good idea to do that from time to time.


(This post was edited by dgskydive on Mar 7, 2005, 1:44 PM)


metalslug  (B 2528)

Mar 7, 2005, 1:45 PM
Post #38 of 246 (3639 views)
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Re: [dgskydive] Fatality at Perris - 05 March 2005 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
She did have a Cypres and reports are that it was armed, but did not fire. I am sure that info willcome from that.

From Page 3 of my Cypres 2 manual...
Quote:
To date, as production of CYPRES 1 comes to an end during spring 2003, CYPRES units have saved the lives of more than 1000 skydivers, without a single unit ever refusing to activate when the conditions were met.
Assuming Airtec have got their facts correct; if it is later proved that this unit was armed, failed to fire and that the installation, maintenance schedule and activation conditions were met, then this is certainly a significant event with regard to this product.


dgskydive  (C 25738)

Mar 7, 2005, 1:56 PM
Post #39 of 246 (3592 views)
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Re: [metalslug] Fatality at Perris - 05 March 2005 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Assuming Airtec have got their facts correct; if it is later proved that this unit was armed, failed to fire and that the installation, maintenance schedule and activation conditions were met, then this is certainly a significant event with regard to this product.

With that said, They also say that the Cypres is not 100% effective as well.

The point is, it is not a fool proof thing and NOBODY should think so!!!!! If I or anyone expects that it will save us is a fool.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Mar 7, 2005, 2:02 PM
Post #40 of 246 (3562 views)
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Re: [dgskydive] Fatality at Perris [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
If the rig isn't fitting properly and the handles had moved enough, is it possible that even her reserve handle could have shifted and become trapped underneath her torso somehow

Possible, but I am pretty sure that is not the case here.

Speaking of handles moving around in freefall. I wonderhow many people out there have never touched there handles in Freefall. From time to time i will touch them while tracking away from a formation to see where they are. They do move and I think it is a good idea to do that from time to time.

To add to this, spend some time in a hanging harness. It is free and it can't be beat for learning where your handles will be when the shit hits the fan.

Dom,

Thanks for the clarification, that it was a coach dive was second hand and I probably should have omitted that in the post.

Again forks, please be patient. The investigation is being handled by probably the best going, but it takes time. Don't speculate or contribute to rumors.

Sparky


LaDonna  (Student)

Mar 7, 2005, 3:03 PM
Post #41 of 246 (3392 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] Fatality at Perris - 05 March 2005 [In reply to] Can't Post

This is so sad. My condolences to her family and friends.


obelixtim  (D 84)

Mar 7, 2005, 3:23 PM
Post #42 of 246 (3330 views)
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Re: [metalslug] Fatality at Perris - 05 March 2005 [In reply to] Can't Post

 The thing to remember about this is, IF the AAD sustained damage, it can be almost impossible to determine exactly what happened.....but if the loop isn't cut then it didn't fire.....

Determining why it didn't fire could be difficult.....

We have to wait for the investigation.........


laurie  (D 25869)

Mar 7, 2005, 3:26 PM
Post #43 of 246 (3324 views)
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Re: [obelixtim] Fatality at Perris - 05 March 2005 [In reply to] Can't Post

I have heard from the investagating rigger and the S&TA, the loop was not cut.


likearock  (D 24640)

Mar 7, 2005, 3:59 PM
Post #44 of 246 (3245 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] Fatality at Perris [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
As a "relative newbie" technical question, is this type of outcome (no CYPRES fire, nothing out) common?

Pretty rare these days.


Small clarification. Not really a "coach jump", but more of a 2 way freefly fun jump.

Did she have an audible altimeter by any chance?

Wayne


laurie  (D 25869)

Mar 7, 2005, 4:03 PM
Post #45 of 246 (3237 views)
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Re: [likearock] Fatality at Perris [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't believe so.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
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Mar 7, 2005, 4:12 PM
Post #46 of 246 (3216 views)
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Re: [likearock] Fatality at Perris [In reply to] Can't Post

>Did she have an audible altimeter by any chance?

I don't think so. Note that this was not a complete loss of altitude awareness - she did break off and track away at an appropriate altitude. Therefore, more altimeters would have been of questionable utility.


likearock  (D 24640)

Mar 7, 2005, 4:25 PM
Post #47 of 246 (3179 views)
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Re: [billvon] Fatality at Perris [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
>Did she have an audible altimeter by any chance?

I don't think so. Note that this was not a complete loss of altitude awareness - she did break off and track away at an appropriate altitude.

I didn't know that. I'm wondering if this might have something to do with the harness shifting as a newbie tries to get into a sit. Without a bungee especially, it could move around and leave the hackey in an unfamiliar place.

Wayne


Jimbo  (D License)

Mar 7, 2005, 4:38 PM
Post #48 of 246 (3128 views)
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Re: [billvon] Fatality at Perris [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Quote:
I don't think so. Note that this was not a complete loss of altitude awareness - she did break off and track away at an appropriate altitude. Therefore, more altimeters would have been of questionable utility.

Did anyone see her after breakoff? Could anyone tell if she was struggling with her gear before impact?

-
Jim


(This post was edited by Jimbo on Mar 7, 2005, 4:38 PM)


flyclearjohn  (D License)

Mar 7, 2005, 4:39 PM
Post #49 of 246 (3120 views)
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Re: [likearock] Fatality at Perris [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
>Did she have an audible altimeter by any chance?

I don't think so. Note that this was not a complete loss of altitude awareness - she did break off and track away at an appropriate altitude.

I didn't know that. I'm wondering if this might have something to do with the harness shifting as a newbie tries to get into a sit. Without a bungee especially, it could move around and leave the hackey in an unfamiliar place.

Wayne

I don't know beans about freeflying, so this is more of a question than a judgment. I see from her posts that she had about 50 solo jumps spread out over a year. Is learning freeflying at this level a good idea?


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Mar 7, 2005, 4:42 PM
Post #50 of 246 (3111 views)
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Re: [Jimbo] Fatality at Perris [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Did anyone see her after breakoff? Could anyone tell if she was struggling with her gear before impact?

I believe the person on the jump with her posted that she had broken off.

As for the struggling with gear, here is a post she made in the past about not finding the hackey - makes me think she was heads up about doing the right thing when she couldn't find her hackey.....This one is a mystifying Frown


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