Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Dumping in industrial haze?

 


Jessica  (B 25202)

May 8, 2001, 8:44 AM
Post #1 of 7 (1396 views)
Shortcut
Dumping in industrial haze? Can't Post

So I have this, um, friend. Let's call her Jennifer.

"Jennifer" went skydiving the other day, and there were a lot of puffy industrial haze concentrations, but there were also tons of holes.

"Jennifer" was horny for a jump, so she manifested for a solo, and was on a load with some freeflyers, one more solo (REALLY inexperienced skydiver, just out of AFF) and a couple of AFF jumps.

Anyway, "Jennifer," who planned to pull at 4K, exited after the freefly groups but before the other solo, who planned to pull at 4.5K.

She realized at about 6K that if she pulled at 4K, she would definitely be dumping in clouds, er, industrial haze. She really didn't want to go lower than she'd told people she was going, even though she was pretty sure the freeflyers were waaaaay below her.

So she hit the cloud, dumped at 4K, opened in whiteness, then OH MY GOD saw another freefalling body dump REALLY FREAKING CLOSE and just above. Cripes, it scared me. I mean, her.

This guy was probably about 100 yards from "Jenn" when he dumped. He later claimed that he could see her just fine, and that there was plenty of separation. Jenn has her doubts. This guy was supposed to give about 7 seconds of separation; could he have ended up that close to her if he had?

Should she have gone "low" (probably 3.5K or 3K) to avoid dumping inside the haze?

TIA.

J



Zennie

May 8, 2001, 8:57 AM
Post #2 of 7 (1388 views)
Shortcut
Re: Dumping in industrial haze? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hrm. Tough call.

I don't know if this is unsafe or not, but I've taken it about 500 feet lower than my "advertised" deployment altitude when I've encountered that situation. I figured it might be enough to bring me beneath the deck but not too much that I risked smacking into someone below me.

Just one question for your, er her, fellow jumper. If she and (presumably) he were both in industrial haze, how could he see her? If he saw her entering it, how did he know she didn't have an off-heading opening?

I've dumped above the cloud, er, haze, deck when I was the last one out. Just made sure not to do any radical canopy moves going through.

------------
Blue Skies!

Zennie


SkySlut  (D License)

May 8, 2001, 9:03 AM
Post #3 of 7 (1385 views)
Shortcut
Re: Dumping in industrial haze? [In reply to] Can't Post

Here is my opinion...

Yes, if he gave you 7 seconds...he could have dumped a lot closer. I was on a 8 way one day and had a solo dump about 20-30 feet from me. I could hear his canopy opening as he passed over my shoulder...and this was a clear day and he was supposed to give us 10 seconds. He said that he thought he was going to go through my canopy...he was so close. So, yep, another skydiver can slide all over the sky if they arent paying attention....they could backslide right into your group. It can happen.

As for dumping in the haze...that is a tough one. I think ultimately it would be your decision on how low you were comfortable with. Remember the 3 rules of skydiving...Pull, pull stable & pull at the right altitude. When its pulltime you gotta whip it out. If you werent comfortable with going lower than pull, if you pull in haze...make a slow spiral to the bottom. The last thing you want to be doing is flying into the line of flight and getting hit by another skydiver in freefall.

I always take note of where the bottom of the haze is on the ride up to altitude so...if by chance you fall through that shit...you know where it is. If its at 3,000, for example, and you arent comfortable pulling lower than that then you better make sure you dont get yourself in that predicament or be prepared to pull in it. If it is at a higher level, say 4,500, then you got some time to play with. Go through it, sit tight...dont do anything radical so you arent sliding all over the sky and wait. Just my thoughts.

-Slut

"I'll jump anything!"


SpeedRacer  (B 26329)

May 8, 2001, 9:38 AM
Post #4 of 7 (1378 views)
Shortcut
Re: Dumping in industrial haze? [In reply to] Can't Post

First of all, just going beneath a cloud 5oo feet isn't safe, what if someone is falling above you & planning the same thing? They won't have time to stop! This is why it's against the rules to jump through clouds.

We jumped on Saturday when it was hazy. The difference between clouds and haze is this: If you can see all the way through it clear through to the ground, it's just haze and you can jump. If you can't see through it, don't jump out of the plane til you get a hole.
Anyway, that's the idea as I understand it. You can correct me if I'm wrong.


Speed Racer

Brew Skies



Zennie

May 8, 2001, 9:58 AM
Post #5 of 7 (1375 views)
Shortcut
Re: Dumping in industrial haze? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
First of all, just going beneath a cloud 5oo feet isn't safe, what if someone is falling above you & planning the same thing? They won't have time to stop! This is why it's against the rules to jump through clouds.
I agree with you. It's not something I particularly like doing so I try to avoid it. In any event I've been presented with that situation and that was my thinking.

In retrospect, the smarter move may have been to dump above the deck (doing a quick look above first). It's a little harder on n-ways when the breakoff altitude winds up at the haze level. Do you break from the group early or take it in (no grim pun intended) with them?

In any event. As soon as I find a clear spot below the deck, I front riser it like a mofo to get down below the deployment range.

That's just a bad situation that's best avoided.


------------
Blue Skies!

Zennie


Pammi

May 9, 2001, 9:31 AM
Post #6 of 7 (1299 views)
Shortcut
Re: Dumping in industrial haze? [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you so much for bringing this up Jessica! Reading your post and the responses are a huge help to me as a newbie just off student status on a situation I hadn't thought about before. Thanks!

"The question is not whether we will die, but how we will live."
http://trak.to/skydivechick


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
May 9, 2001, 5:49 PM
Post #7 of 7 (1271 views)
Shortcut
Re: Dumping in industrial haze? [In reply to] Can't Post

>Should she have gone "low" (probably 3.5K or 3K) to
>avoid dumping inside the haze?

Personally, I'd say no. If the guy is above you and you're above the cloud, he can see you and avoid you. If you're below the cloud, he's not going to be able to see you. You need a good five seconds to see and track or to pull high; would you really be comfortable taking it 1000 feet below cloudbase?

Vertical separation is nice, but it's the most unreliable form of separation for about a dozen reasons. I would much rather sacrifice vertical separation for visibility.



-bill von



Forums : Skydiving : Safety and Training

 


Search for (options)