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Argus-aad?

 

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Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
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Feb 1, 2005, 9:08 PM
Post #1 of 60 (6579 views)
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Argus-aad? Can't Post

http://www.argus-aad.com/ Anyone have any info on this unit? Is it the reworked MPAAD that was out last year?


pbla4024  (C 2033)

Feb 1, 2005, 10:16 PM
Post #2 of 60 (6527 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] Argus-aad? [In reply to] Can't Post

Nothing to do with MPAAD. MPAAD is here http://www.marsjev.cz/...produkt.asp?kod=1799 or here http://www.blueskies.cz/...;articles_style=shop


Chrisky

Feb 2, 2005, 2:15 AM
Post #3 of 60 (6477 views)
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Belgian.. [In reply to] Can't Post

Another product from Belgium, as it seems.
Here's the result of a WHOIS domain query of www.argus-aad.com:

G.V.C. BVBA
Leemveldstraat, 42
Overijse, N/A 3090
BE

Domain Name: ARGUS-AAD.COM

Administrative Contact:
Karel Goorts karel.goorts@lannews.be
G.V.C. BVBA
Leemveldstraat, 42
Overijse, N/A 3090
BE
Phone: ***removed by poster***
Fax:
Technical Contact: yaddayaddayadda


(This post was edited by Chrisky on Feb 2, 2005, 2:16 AM)


Premier cpoxon  (D 11665)
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Feb 2, 2005, 2:31 AM
Post #4 of 60 (6471 views)
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Re: [Chrisky] Belgian.. [In reply to] Can't Post

Karel Goorts used to be 'half' of Vigil before they split


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Feb 2, 2005, 8:41 AM
Post #5 of 60 (6373 views)
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Re: [cpoxon] Belgian.. [In reply to] Can't Post

Another Belgian-made AAD?

This whole concept of being able to convert one AAD from student, to tandem, to expert with a few key strokes is a noble idea, but I would still prefer to make the conversion process only accessible to a rigger
i.e a screw in the side of the battery box that is only accessible when the container is open.
I just don't trust bored skydivers to leave well-enough-alone.


BlindBrick  (C 35382)

Feb 3, 2005, 9:38 AM
Post #6 of 60 (6234 views)
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Re: [riggerrob] Belgian.. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
This whole concept of being able to convert one AAD from student, to tandem, to expert with a few key strokes is a noble idea, but I would still prefer to make the conversion process only accessible to a rigger
i.e a screw in the side of the battery box that is only accessible when the container is open.
I just don't trust bored skydivers to leave well-enough-alone.

For what it's worth, in ready mode the Vigil's LCD display tells you what jumper mode(Pro/Student/Tandem) it is in in large bolded letters. In fact, since the Vigil also has an LED to indicate status, the jumper mode is the only info displayed on the LCD when in ready mode. So it's really hard to not know whether you are in pro, student or tandem mode if you can read.

-Blind


Chrisky

Feb 3, 2005, 11:37 PM
Post #7 of 60 (6167 views)
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Re: [cpoxon] Belgian.. [In reply to] Can't Post

My thoughts exactly. Was just too lazy to look it up 'round here...


Adriandavies  (C 102332)

Feb 7, 2005, 2:23 AM
Post #8 of 60 (6058 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] Argus-aad? [In reply to] Can't Post

...Are its makers trying to claim too much? If you look at its website it claims to be the most reliable AAD. This may turn out to be correct but it is a pretty bold statement for a product which isn't even on the market yet and won't be on general release until the end of the year. You can imagine what the feedback will be if one unit fails especially given the furore which has dogged the Vigil.

What info have they got to back it up?


TrojanHorse

Feb 7, 2005, 4:39 AM
Post #9 of 60 (6036 views)
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Re: [riggerrob] Belgian.. [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
This whole concept of being able to convert one AAD from student, to tandem, to expert with a few key strokes is a noble idea, but I would still prefer to make the conversion process only accessible to a rigger
i.e a screw in the side of the battery box that is only accessible when the container is open.
I just don't trust bored skydivers to leave well-enough-alone.


Hi Rob,
The Argus will be delivered in a single (Standard) mode -885ft (270 meters) at a fall rate of 78-mph (35 m/sec)-. It is optional to install - per mode – extra software for novice, tandem or swoop. Only than you will be able to convert between modes. BTW installing these extra modes is a rigger’s job.

The majority (±85%) of the skydivers will use the device in the Standard mode and will have no interest to install an extra mode. (Therefore will the majority of skydivers in a moment of boredom not be able to…)

Those who are interested in extending the number of modes might be skydiving schools, tandemmasters and hardcore swoopers. I.e. (semi-) professionals who are (just like the vast majority of all skydivers) aware that such devices are no toys.

Adjustment by altitude, language and readings (metric/feet) is possible in every mode (obvious).

Our utmost concern is parachuting safety (and this since 1993). Therefore we fully agree with you that making the conversion process only accessible to a rigger would be the best. However, the customer wants that (when more than one mode is installed), he/she can make the conversion by her/himself.

We’ve chosen for a solution somewhere in the middle by limiting access for a large percentage of the general skydiving community, who are not interested in an extra mode anyhow. (Perhaps with the exception to play with on rainy days…)

Bill Booth wrote in 2003 a nice article about the (conflicting) relation between parachuting safety and market demand (see link). I’m afraid that dilemmas like these will remain forever.

Greetz
WilliamCool
Project Argus

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/safety/detail_page.cgi?ID=19


Premier cpoxon  (D 11665)
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Feb 7, 2005, 7:12 AM
Post #10 of 60 (5994 views)
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Re: [TrojanHorse] Belgian.. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
BTW installing these extra modes is a rigger’s job.

Nice idea.

Conversely, can a rigger remove the modes if the unit is to be sold to one of the "majority" who have no interest in the extra modes?

In reply to:
William
Project Argus

How come you have no AAD listed in your profile? Not eating your own dogfood? :-D


AntonP

Feb 7, 2005, 10:20 AM
Post #11 of 60 (5954 views)
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Re: [TrojanHorse] Belgian.. [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello,

are you the William who promoted the Vigil for AAD nv/sa in Germany in November 2003 at the DFV annual meeting, together with Karel Goorts ?

Just curious,
Anton


jdhill  (D License)

Feb 7, 2005, 11:14 AM
Post #12 of 60 (5932 views)
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Re: [TrojanHorse] Belgian.. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
(Standard) mode -885ft (270 meters) at a fall rate of 78-mph (35 m/sec)

What are the parameters of the other modes?

J


TrojanHorse

Feb 8, 2005, 4:36 AM
Post #13 of 60 (5839 views)
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Re: [cpoxon] Belgian.. [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Nice idea.

Conversely, can a rigger remove the modes if the unit is to be sold to one of the "majority" who have no interest in the extra modes?


If the customer wish so or local regulations demand that, yes.

Quote:
How come you have no AAD listed in your profile? Not eating your own dogfood? :-D

Go to profiles and try to add a non listed aad.

WilliamWink


TrojanHorse

Feb 8, 2005, 5:35 AM
Post #14 of 60 (5821 views)
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Re: [Adriandavies] Argus-aad? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
...Are its makers trying to claim too much? .....If you look at its website it claims to be the most reliable AAD. This may turn out to be correct but it is a pretty bold statement

Hi Adrian,
I don’t think we are claiming too much. If you decide in this business (like in any other) to develop a certain product, your aim should be to make it superior to similar products that are already available. The “bold” statement is based upon what we want to achieve. So far the outcome of the tests with our prototypes makes us feel good.

For the coming 9 months you can -via the Argus Website- update yourself about where we stand. You will be informed about the testing programme and their outcome (our successes and –without any doubt- flaws). I don’t think flaws can be fully avoided (that’s where a testing phase is for), it is a matter how you handle them. We’ve chosen for transparency.

William


TrojanHorse

Feb 8, 2005, 6:17 AM
Post #15 of 60 (5802 views)
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Re: [jdhill] Belgian.. [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
What are the parameters of the other modes?

Standard: 885ft (270 meters) at a fall rate of 78 mph (35 m/sec)

Novice: 1050 feet (320 meters) at a fall rate of 45 mph (20m/sec)

Tandem: 2050 feet (625meter) at a fall rate of 78 mph (35 m/sec)

Swoop: patent pending (I'll keep you informed about that one...)

WilliamSly


TrojanHorse

Feb 8, 2005, 6:23 AM
Post #16 of 60 (5796 views)
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Re: [AntonP] Belgian.. [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
are you the William who...
Hello Anton,
Yes, at that time I worked for B&B Controls, the company that produced the Vigil on behalf of AAD nv/sa.

I left the company a bit over a year ago

kind regards,
William


TrojanHorse

Feb 8, 2005, 6:26 PM
Post #17 of 60 (5704 views)
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Re: [cpoxon] Belgian.. [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Go to profiles and try to add a non listed aad.

I was able to (did at first overlook the box with other...)Crazy

FYI I jump one of the Argus prototypes.
William


John4455  (D 22657)

Feb 9, 2005, 5:50 AM
Post #18 of 60 (5648 views)
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Re: [TrojanHorse] Belgian.. [In reply to] Can't Post

I wish you guys the best of luck!


redknight

Feb 11, 2005, 12:44 PM
Post #19 of 60 (5524 views)
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Re: [TrojanHorse] Belgian.. [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
FYI I jump one of the Argus prototypes.
William

-----------------------
A real one in your rig or a theoretical one in your pocket ???
How is it looking like ????
Your website doesn't let out a secret !!!!!!!!


TrojanHorse

Feb 12, 2005, 1:35 AM
Post #20 of 60 (5474 views)
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Re: [redknight] Belgian.. [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
A real one in your rig or a theoretical one in your pocket ???

Real one in my rig (actually we have several)

Quote:
How is it looking like ????

Not taking into account the improvements it looks like most aads that work according to the principle of cutting the loop (box, cutter, display).

Quote:
Your website doesn't let out a secret !!!!!!!!

Correct. Next update 1 March 2005 (As we also wrote on the site.)

William


piisfish

Feb 12, 2005, 4:27 AM
Post #21 of 60 (5458 views)
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Re: [TrojanHorse] Belgian.. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
A real one in your rig or a theoretical one in your pocket ???

Real one in my rig (actually we have several)

Correct. Next update 1 March 2005 (As we also wrote on the site.)
looking forward for the update...

little question, your profile also says you jump in Maubeuge... Do they let you jump with a prototype ??


TrojanHorse

Feb 13, 2005, 11:18 AM
Post #22 of 60 (5384 views)
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Re: [piisfish] Belgian.. [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
little question, your profile also says you jump in Maubeuge... Do they let you jump with a prototype ??

In France an aad is mandatory. There is however neither a type nor any aad norm set.

Obviously, jumping a prototype does not mean that you should do “regular” skydives with them. The safety of the aeroplane, fellow passengers and skydivers is your no 1 concern. (no relative work, students, tandem...)

FYI also in the past Maubeuge was used for several testing programmes (I took part in several of them).

Quote:
looking forward for the update...
Thanks, we keep you informed

William


Bartje  (E License)

Feb 14, 2005, 2:59 AM
Post #23 of 60 (5315 views)
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Re: [TrojanHorse] Belgian.. [In reply to] Can't Post

you are doing a good job W.
I can not wait for the next update,


Chrisky

Feb 14, 2005, 6:57 PM
Post #24 of 60 (5243 views)
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Re: [Adriandavies] Argus-aad? [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, it should not take much to avoid mistakes in PR like they happened in other cases, but that gets offtopic.

In an early phase like this, claims can be made as bold as they want to, because they can still work on it to meet the claim before the unit is on the market.

And doesn't every AAD claim to be the best/most reliable/most trusted?


TrojanHorse

Feb 15, 2005, 2:24 PM
Post #25 of 60 (5163 views)
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Re: [Chrisky] Argus-aad? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Well, it should not take much ....but that gets offtopic.

Touché! But in those days (and we don't mind to admit) were quite some emotions involved resulting in an impulsive response (we are only human...)Frown

For the rest, we work hard to meet our claim

regards,
William


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