Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
what you prefer??? pull out or handeploy???

 


ditch9276  (A 9489)

May 3, 2001, 9:56 AM
Post #1 of 7 (1297 views)
Shortcut
what you prefer??? pull out or handeploy??? Can't Post

What do you prefer????

Pull out or Handeploy???

And why????????

DITCH

>volo ergo sum<


cdunham

May 3, 2001, 10:35 AM
Post #2 of 7 (1286 views)
Shortcut
There is only one choice [In reply to] Can't Post

Pull-out. Inherently safer (duck, incoming!! Smile). No container lock, no pilot chute in tow, shorter bridle means less chance of horseshoe.

I like the idea of knowing the pin has been pulled.

Downside is that the pud can come loose, but I've always been able to find the bridle anyway. I recently discovered another downside, which is that because it isn't currently fashionable, you have to be careful asking for pin checks (hey, your pin is straight!!) and whatever you do, if you have a packer pack for you, make sure they understand the system. I had to scratch a load last weekend because of this.

This discussion has been done here before, you may want to do a search for it. It comes down to personal preference. All the methods are safe, each has advantages and disadvantages, pull-out is just provably better, and the rest have emotional supporters Wink.

Carl

---
Sometimes you just have to take the leap, and build your wings on the way down.

--Kobi Yamada




Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

May 3, 2001, 10:37 AM
Post #3 of 7 (1286 views)
Shortcut
Re: what you prefer??? pull out or handeploy??? [In reply to] Can't Post

I prefer hand-deploy in a BOC configuration. It might look a little less "clean" than a pullout, but until recently pullout puds were a little prone to coming unsecured while moving about the aircraft and sometimes in freefall. I witnessed plenty of them flapping around behind people; not cool. I must say, though, that the newest versions I have seen (namely, on the Jav), are MUCH more secure and quite stylish. Still, I am a big fan of the BOC hand-deploy.

Chuck



lazerq3  (C -34113)

May 3, 2001, 9:23 PM
Post #4 of 7 (1246 views)
Shortcut
Re: what you prefer??? pull out or handeploy??? [In reply to] Can't Post

I dont know about pull outs, but I just transitioned from a R/C to hand deploy and can you say SMOOOOTH!!!! Little slower opening but a smooth ride all the same!!!I know this doesnt answer your ?????? but what can I say I'm a newbie!!!!Wink

jason





riggerrob  (D 14840)

May 3, 2001, 10:26 PM
Post #5 of 7 (1237 views)
Shortcut
Re: what you prefer??? pull out or handeploy??? [In reply to] Can't Post

I prefer pull-outs because every year a couple of them ask me to repack their reserves after they lost their puds.
It is also lots of fun to watch them spin their Stilettos after they put so much muscle into pulling that they deployed one shoulder low.
Pull-outs are lots of fun for riggers!



Floater  (A 37766)

May 7, 2001, 2:04 AM
Post #6 of 7 (1168 views)
Shortcut
Re: what you prefer??? pull out or handeploy??? [In reply to] Can't Post

Here's another question. I'm about to buy my first rig and the container I'm buying is a javeline with a pull out. What can I look forward to if I convert to throw out? Price range and time.



DBTECH  (B 21186)

May 7, 2001, 10:58 AM
Post #7 of 7 (1141 views)
Shortcut
Re: what you prefer??? pull out or handeploy??? [In reply to] Can't Post

Post from Dave Brownell:

The following is a series of letters regarding pull-out pilot chutes.

Hello TK: (at the Relative Workshop)

I don't know what your opinion is about pullout pilot chutes, but here is
mine, in response to a question regarding rig conversion.

I, personally, am against pull out's. (20+ years, jumper, pilot, rigger)
As predicted, I have seen (watched) two near fatalities as the result of pullouts. Both were main-reserve entanglements. In both cases the PC's were held long enough to allow the bridle to half hitch around the pilot
chute causing a PC malfunction. When I say long enough, I mean as short as maybe one half second or less! This may not seam very long, but consider the action/speed of the bridle being out next to the inflated
PC. (perceived malfunction rate?)

With a hand deploy PC you are holding the apex of the PC. There is only a horseshoe starting at your hand, and ending at the closing flap. When you release the PC the total horseshoe remains taught until pilot chute
inflation. I have held on to my hand deploy for five seconds on several jumps with no problem. Would you want to do that with a pullout?

As far as concern about the pin not being pulled? A 28" pilot chute has at least 70 lbs. of drag at 120 MPH. What's the likely hood of a misrouted bridle on a late-model rig?

Buy the way, in both cases of near fatalities, both jumpers pulled their reserves around 1000 feet. In both cases there were entanglements with the main-bag that deployed at reserve pull. They both got reserve
openings below 300 feet! On one, "garbage of the main" was pushed down to the jumper by the reserve slider, blinding the jumper! Sounds like fun time, HA! (bonus days included) I was witness to both of these
jumps!

Dave Brownell

Mesa/Eloy AZ

Dave,

I'm with you on all counts. Here's a fact or two you can add to your list.

We've done a lot of tests to determine the strength of the average jumper in the pull-out configuration.
The strongest guys in our shop were not half as strong as the drag of a standard hand-deploy pilot chute. No contest there.

In an ideal world, a hand-deploy is always thrown, and should not be held onto unless you discover someone over your back at that very moment. But when you must hold it, the worst that can happen is that the drag on the bridle pulls the pin. (which is what you get on every pull-out deployment!) If you're stable, the bagged canopy will stay on your back. (Dave, all of the maladies you mention are absolutely true.)

With a pull-out pilot chute, you don't get the great, aggressive throw capability of the hand-deploy because you loose of the throwing stroke just trying to pull the pin out of the locking loop. Without a good throw, the pilot chute could end up on your back in the burble. I personally have about 300 jumps on a pull-out system and on many of these jumps, I experienced pilot chute hesitations. I went back to hand-deploy
and have not had a hesitation since.

Dave, you're absolutely correct when it comes to two canopy entanglements. Here's how the scenario goes: They pull the handle and pin and then let go of the PC. The burble sucks the PC onto their back.
They fail to look over their shoulder hard enough so the PC stays there. Eventually, and usually quite low, they decide to pull the reserve. Both canopies will usually deploy one after the other.

And here's another problem. Most jumpers with pull-out systems loose their handle at least once during their career. Some don't ever find it on that given jump and end up pulling their reserve. Some don't pull
anything. Before the days of AAD's, a significant number of jumpers bounced, Jeannie McCombs being one of the notables.

I'm sure I could go on an on about the virtues of H/D over P/O, but life is short and so is the list of jumpers using the PULL-OUT System.

Talk to you later,

TK




Forums : Skydiving : Gear and Rigging

 


Search for (options)