Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
1st off Airport landing

 

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drdive  (D 29619)

Dec 21, 2004, 8:30 PM
Post #1 of 33 (1999 views)
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1st off Airport landing Can't Post

I just finished AFF, have 4 post AFF jumps, and am trying to stay current, since my dropzone in WA is closed for most of the winter. I was in LV, and went to Skydive Mesquite to take my girlfriend for a tandem, and to do a jump. Photographer, tandem instructor and girlfriend exited the 182 first, I followed in 6 or 8 seconds. Did a forward roll, got stable, feeling great, altitide 9k. Started feeling wobbly, wondering why, flipped to my back, got stable again, checked alti - 6k. Thought "maybe should pull early since having a ittle stability problem". Reached for ripcord, wobbled, turned, whoops - back on my back - wondering again why am I so damn unstable? Flipped back to my belly, then started an uncontrolled tumble. Tried to get stable, remembered first rule - "pull", and pulled. After opening, checked alti - shit - 1500ft. Where the hell is the airport????? Saw the golf course, which I knew was next to the dz, yelled "fore", and zoomed over a green and landed nicely in the fairway.
After landing, I noticed my jumpsuit, that had a zipper from the chest down to the left ankle had blown open the zipper from the left foot to my crotch, creating an asymmetric "sail". In retrospect, I had noticed the zipper had not completely closed by my left knee. The 120 mph must have blown the zipper open, and with my lack of experience, affected my stability.

Lessons learned:
1. Get my own jumpsuit
2. The instructor was right - you fall FAST when unstable
3. If you are unstable, and nearing pull altitude - PULL ( I wasted precious altitude trying to get stable again)

Oh well, lesson learned, bought beer, and ready to do better nest time.

This sport is so awesome - and the experience shared on this forum is so helpful. Feel free to beat me up.

Ed in Spokane


ZoneRat  (D 26968)

Dec 21, 2004, 9:11 PM
Post #2 of 33 (1962 views)
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Re: [drdive] 1st off Airport landing [In reply to] Can't Post

My only criticism is that you landed on the fairway and not the green.Wink

Very heads-up skydiving. Great awareness. Solid decision making. Excellent recall.

Yep. I'd jump with you any day.


Liemberg  (Student)

Dec 21, 2004, 9:18 PM
Post #3 of 33 (1958 views)
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Re: [drdive] 1st off Airport landing [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Feel free to beat me up.

You ought to be spanked! Smile

What was the wingload on that zipper? Did you wear a helmet? Were you briefed on this possible outcome? What was the brand of the jumpsuit and who did your pre-jump inspection? Type of altimeter? Did you sign a waiver? Was there any damage to the golfcourse?

"For want of a nail the kingdom got lost..."

O well, if not you: Somebody ought to be spanked! Tongue

BTW: Lesson one isn't 'get your own jumpsuit'
Quote:
In retrospect, I had noticed the zipper had not completely closed by my left knee.
...

'You guys have another suit for me? This one has a zipper that is about to come apart...'

Glad you are OK.


drdive  (D 29619)

Dec 21, 2004, 9:51 PM
Post #4 of 33 (1948 views)
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Re: [Liemberg] 1st off Airport landing [In reply to] Can't Post

Ha ha!! :-)
Not so heads up - or I would have pulled earlier.
I am responsible for my own zipper - in fact, I even thought before the jump - "what happens if this son of a bitch blows open at 120 mph?"
You should have seen the looks from the whuffo golfers.
I landed safe, I learned, I had a nice walk back to the DZ.

Ed


DZJ  (A 104861)

Dec 21, 2004, 9:59 PM
Post #5 of 33 (1943 views)
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Re: [drdive] 1st off Airport landing [In reply to] Can't Post

Just out of curiosity - stand-up landing or PLF?


drdive  (D 29619)

Dec 21, 2004, 10:06 PM
Post #6 of 33 (1939 views)
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Re: [DZJ] 1st off Airport landing [In reply to] Can't Post

Stand up. Then a nice wave to the whuffo's on the green. Tongue


Travman  (E License)

Dec 21, 2004, 11:07 PM
Post #7 of 33 (1922 views)
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Re: [drdive] 1st off Airport landing [In reply to] Can't Post

Lol, I wonder how often the golfers have had that happen


jose  (D License)

Dec 21, 2004, 11:57 PM
Post #8 of 33 (1911 views)
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Re: [drdive] 1st off Airport landing [In reply to] Can't Post

Damn, many hundred jumps from now, you coulda swooped the water hazards!

I had a suit come undone when I had 80 jumps. It did the same thing....seriously unstable and flipping around. Going to your back was a good idea to get stable again.....just pitch as soon as you go back to belly so it doesnt happen again (unstable part that is).


Skolem45  (Student)

Dec 22, 2004, 3:07 AM
Post #9 of 33 (1891 views)
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Re: [drdive] 1st off Airport landing [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok, here's mine:

My first jump after AFF. Reasonable exit. Got into a spin fairly early on, followed the "5 second rule", - pulled. High. As in, 9k ft.

Now the upper winds turned out to be pretty stiff. After a few minutes it was pretty obvious I wasn't going to make it to the dropzone. Was dreading landiing in some wooded hills for a few minutes. Fortunately, lower winds were more manageable (duh, they wouldn't let me jjump otherwise.) Made it to the town between the DZ and the hills.

Found an empty lot of land. Up till the very last moment thought I would land with the fence between my legs (would be nasty, as the fence turned out to have barbed wirre.)

Lay there for 10 seconds or so just to feel the ground and to be thankful for being alive and well.

Hey, if all it takes to walk off from landing is cliimbing some barbed wire fence, it;s not so bad Smile


D22369  (D 22369)

Dec 22, 2004, 6:31 AM
Post #10 of 33 (1833 views)
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Re: [drdive] 1st off Airport landing [In reply to] Can't Post

Feel free to beat me up.

Quote:

what for?Crazy..... people that are willing to admit a mistake........and say: this is what happened, this is what I did wrong, this is what I can do to prevent it from happening again, this is what I learned.......
these are the people that do well in this sport.

Ya jumped....Ya lived, -- lesson learnedSmile

Roy

PS: we will be jumping all winter at Richland Wa if you are inclined to come over and play. It wont be quite as warm as Nevada, but we manage to have lots of fun.


pccoder  (A 43773)

Dec 22, 2004, 7:49 AM
Post #11 of 33 (1806 views)
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Re: [drdive] 1st off Airport landing [In reply to] Can't Post

From when you decided to pull at 6k and then finally got under your canopy at 1500 feet is a long time. In fact, it sounds like you finally pulled around 2k. That's very low, especially for someone with so few jumps. I am actually suprised you are not getting more flack for that. The tumbling, etc. certainly helped you lose more altitude quickly than you would normally. However, with you experience level you might not want to wait so long to pull next time.

I am very happy you finally saved yourself, but it could have easily gone bad. Congratulations and living to jump another day.


Freeflysmiley  (C License)

Dec 22, 2004, 8:35 AM
Post #12 of 33 (1788 views)
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Re: [drdive] 1st off Airport landing [In reply to] Can't Post

Just out of interest in England, we're taught if we're completely unstable, and can't recover (by tracking) fo whatever reason, to pull silver.

Reason being spring loaded RPC goes for clean air, and a far lower chance of an entanglement with an out of control skydiver.

Any thoughts people?


Scrumpot  (D License)

Dec 22, 2004, 8:37 AM
Post #13 of 33 (1788 views)
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Re: [jose] 1st off Airport landing [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Damn, many hundred jumps from now, you coulda swooped the water hazards!

NEVER a good idea, and I would NOT EVER suggest this! Crazy When landing off, land CONSERVATIVELY, and land SAFELY. Seriously. ...I am not "flaming" you personally Jose, but I would not even joke about this (which is probably all you are doing) ...at least I hope this is not a serious suggestion! I have seen too many friends (more than one QUITE EXPERIENCED, and actually a competitive, HIGHLY COMPITENT "swooper" otherwise) Chow in trying just this during an off-DZ landing.

The litany of very serious injuries, and even at least one FATALITY that I know of, has been resultant of exactly this type of "stunt" gone bad. An off DZ landing is not the time to do this, nearly ever, PERIOD.

You just NEVER KNOW what your obstacles may be on the edge of that water hazard. Or "fun" looking drainage levy, or fire-break "swoop lane" etc., etc. off the DZ.

Unless you are ABSOLUTELY SURE of your LZ (ie: ON THE DROPZONE or well-scouted PRE-PLANNED landing area), ALWAYS land as CONSERVATIVELY and safely as possible, wings level, and be prepared instead to PLF! Land safely FIRST, then if you do want to swoop, get back to the dropzone (in one piece) get packed up, get on the next load and go swoop! Because then you CAN, because you did not fuck yourself up trying to pull this skewed rationale and are now because of it sorry, busted up, or WORSE!

Sorry to sound like such a "Nazi" on that. But like I say, I have seen too many friends actually think just like this ...and I don't think it should be even REMOTELY alluded to, and should be in fact DISCOURAGED.


JeepDiver  (D License)

Dec 22, 2004, 9:41 AM
Post #14 of 33 (1765 views)
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Re: [pccoder] 1st off Airport landing [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
In fact, it sounds like you finally pulled around 2k

Were you jumping a rig with a cypress?


PhillyKev

Dec 22, 2004, 2:27 PM
Post #15 of 33 (1693 views)
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Re: [Freeflysmiley] 1st off Airport landing [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Just out of interest in England, we're taught if we're completely unstable, and can't recover (by tracking) fo whatever reason, to pull silver.

Reason being spring loaded RPC goes for clean air, and a far lower chance of an entanglement with an out of control skydiver.

Any thoughts people?

Personally, I wouldn't want to risk my last chance on an unstable deployment when it's not necessary. If you open your main and it's tangled, you're slowed down and have time for emergency procedures (provided you were altitude aware and not low as well as unstable). Then you'll be deploying your reserver in a heads up, stable, low speed condition, like it's designed for.

If you open your reserve and it's tangled, well, you're screwed.


Freeflysmiley  (C License)

Dec 22, 2004, 4:58 PM
Post #16 of 33 (1662 views)
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Re: [PhillyKev] 1st off Airport landing [In reply to] Can't Post

Your attitude is logical, I find it hard to fault, yet this is what we were taught, which also makes sense.....
Maybe the logic is you have a far greater chance of a main entanglement which may not be chopable and cause two messed canopies, whereas if u go for silver you have a much much better chance of a clean deployment whilst tumbling?

But i know what u mean about using up your reserve. Bill you know your stuff, any comments? Any Brit instructors want to add their thoughts?

Cheers freeflysmiley


jose  (D License)

Dec 22, 2004, 6:28 PM
Post #17 of 33 (1649 views)
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Re: [Scrumpot] 1st off Airport landing [In reply to] Can't Post

Perhaps I should have done thisWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWink after I was done.



















































Oh yeah....Wink


(This post was edited by jose on Dec 22, 2004, 6:30 PM)


craig_b  (B 28330)

Dec 22, 2004, 7:00 PM
Post #18 of 33 (1639 views)
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Re: [drdive] 1st off Airport landing [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm a new skydiver myself and must agree with many of the experienced ones here. You were lucky this time and I am surprised the S&T officer didn't talk with you. "A" License minimum opening is 3000 and I got my tail chewed by a Load Organizer, the S&T officer and my friends for a low pull at Perris Valley,CA. You might consider what my best skydiver friend asked..... "At that altitude just how long do you have before you hit the ground?" At 1500 I figure about 7 seconds, right?

I am glad you posted because it made me re-think my incident, remember it and go over what I learned from it. I don't ever want to put myself in that situation again and I do all I can to know every step of my dive before I get in the plane. I was told that a lot of skydiving must be automatic and that pulling at the correct altitude is part of that.

A new DZ is the hardest for us newbies. We don't have the normal altitude awareness ques that we are use to at our home DZ such as the terrain, roads, buildings to judge by. I always jump with someone very familiar with a new DZ and that someone must also be someone I trust explicitly with my life.

I am very glad to know you are okay and get to jump another day. Take care my friend and remember..... Pull, Pull Altitude, Pull Stable and Land Safely.

Blue Skies


Scrumpot  (D License)

Dec 22, 2004, 7:13 PM
Post #19 of 33 (1633 views)
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Re: [jose] 1st off Airport landing [In reply to] Can't Post

Woulda worked.
Thanks for clearing that up! Tongue


Andrewwhyte  (C 1988)

Dec 23, 2004, 12:12 AM
Post #20 of 33 (1603 views)
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Re: [ZoneRat] 1st off Airport landing [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
My only criticism is that you landed on the fairway and not the green.Wink

Not funny. You wonder why the neighbours hate us.


drdive  (D 29619)

Dec 23, 2004, 8:11 AM
Post #21 of 33 (1571 views)
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Re: [JeepDiver] 1st off Airport landing [In reply to] Can't Post

"were you jumping a rig with a cypress"

Yep!


drdive  (D 29619)

Dec 23, 2004, 8:19 AM
Post #22 of 33 (1566 views)
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Re: [craig_b] 1st off Airport landing [In reply to] Can't Post

<<I'm a new skydiver myself and must agree with many of the experienced ones here. You were lucky this time and I am surprised the S&T officer didn't talk with you. "A" License minimum opening is 3000 and I got my tail chewed by a Load Organizer, the S&T officer and my friends for a low pull at Perris Valley,CA. You might consider what my best skydiver friend asked..... "At that altitude just how long do you have before you hit the ground?" At 1500 I figure about 7 seconds, right?

I am glad you posted because it made me re-think my incident, remember it and go over what I learned from it. I don't ever want to put myself in that situation again and I do all I can to know every step of my dive before I get in the plane. I was told that a lot of skydiving must be automatic and that pulling at the correct altitude is part of that.

A new DZ is the hardest for us newbies. We don't have the normal altitude awareness ques that we are use to at our home DZ such as the terrain, roads, buildings to judge by. I always jump with someone very familiar with a new DZ and that someone must also be someone I trust explicitly with my life.

I am very glad to know you are okay and get to jump another day. Take care my friend and remember..... Pull, Pull Altitude, Pull Stable and Land Safely. >>

Craig,
Thanks for your comments. Yep - I did get counseled by the S&TA, and deserved it.

That's what I love about this forum - so many are willing to share their screw ups and help us all learn from them.

Regards,
Ed


callahan  (D License)

Jan 4, 2005, 8:56 AM
Post #23 of 33 (1389 views)
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Re: [drdive] 1st off Airport landing [In reply to] Can't Post

Glad you're okay ! Weird stuff with the zipper blowing open . I'd get a ditter as soon as you can . They're not too replace being heads up but when your attention wanders ....they scream ! Wake up and pull !


Fast  (D 28237)

Jan 4, 2005, 9:27 AM
Post #24 of 33 (1381 views)
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Re: [callahan] 1st off Airport landing [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Glad you're okay ! Weird stuff with the zipper blowing open . I'd get a ditter as soon as you can . They're not too replace being heads up but when your attention wanders ....they scream ! Wake up and pull !



Yeah, but that is half the problem of getting one. It will start to replace being heads up if you aren't carefull. If you aren't heads up already the ditter becomes your version of heads up, till it fails and you die. Not in specific response to this persons situation but rather in general I don't think people should use them till they are very good at altitude awareness on their own.


YahooLV  (D License)

Jan 4, 2005, 4:50 PM
Post #25 of 33 (1342 views)
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Re: [drdive] 1st off Airport landing [In reply to] Can't Post

ok, did someone chip you to the green, since you missed?

When in doubt, PULL!


Shocked


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