Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:

 1 2 3 4 5 6  View All Thread Options

FrancoR

Dec 5, 2004, 8:29 AM
Post #1 of 139 (4209 views)
Shortcut
I am just reading "The parachute and its pilot" by Brian Germain. On the topic of wingloading there is a chart wich contains the maximum recommended wingloadings depending on number of jumps, altitude and canopy size.
I am courious how many jumpers are actually within their limits, so here is the chart:

1.0 / <100
1.1 / 100-199
1.2 / 200-299
1.3 / 300-399
1.4 / 400-499
1.5 / 500-599
1.6 / 600-699
1.7 / 700-799
1.8 / 800-899
1.9 / 900-999
2.0 / 1000+

Substract at least one point for every 2000feet of elevation or density altitude above mean see level
If you fly in a location that often experiences conditions of low air pressure due to high temperature and humidity, you should reduce the WNE by at least one point.
Substract two points for canopies above under150 square feet.

By the way the book is very good.

(This post was edited by FrancoR on Dec 5, 2004, 11:13 AM)

nate_1979  (B 27889)

Dec 5, 2004, 10:15 AM
Post #2 of 139 (4127 views)
Shortcut
I am just reading "The parachute and its pilot" by Brian Germain.

....

By the way the book is very good.

I have read this book a few times, get something new from it every time.. GREAT book, read it twice just in AFF.

JonBonGraham  (B 104505)

Dec 5, 2004, 10:27 AM
Post #3 of 139 (4121 views)
Shortcut
Substract two points for canopies above 150 square feet.

...this confuses me, can anyone explain why this is so?
By 'subtract two points' I assume you mean go, for example from 1.0 to 0.8, from 1.1 to 0.9 etc.
But if this is the case, then someone with, say, 100-199 jumps has a recomended maximum WL of 1.1, brought down to 0.9 if the canopy is bigger than 150. But this means that a jumper weighing 160lb is within the 1.1 WL on a 150 so it "should" be okay for them to jump a 150 (yeah I know this also depends heavily on skill level, experience etc. but this is just going by the figures, which is all we have), but is ABOVE the 0.9 WL on a 170, so should NOT be jumping this canopy (IF strictly following this WL chart)... this cannot be correct.
Am I missing something, or am I missenterpreting this in some way? I don't own a copy of this book, so can't look at it for refference.

FrancoR

Dec 5, 2004, 11:13 AM
Post #4 of 139 (4101 views)
Shortcut
Substract two points for canopies above 150 square feet.

Am I missing something, or am I missenterpreting this in some way? I don't own a copy of this book, so can't look at it for refference.

Substract two points for canopies above under 150 square feet.

(This post was edited by FrancoR on Dec 5, 2004, 11:13 AM)

bmcd308  (D 27472)

Dec 5, 2004, 11:36 AM
Post #5 of 139 (4083 views)
Shortcut
I was lower until yesterday. Now, I have 391 jumps and a 1.43 WL.

I promise to be really careful.

Brent

Dec 5, 2004, 11:49 AM
Post #6 of 139 (4078 views)
Shortcut
342 jumps, 1.05 wingloading, 135 square foot canopy. No desire to downsize.

Dave

bdbrown  (B 27428)

Dec 5, 2004, 12:00 PM
Post #7 of 139 (4071 views)
Shortcut
129 jumps now at almost 1.2....Working real hard on flat turns

Dec 5, 2004, 12:01 PM
Post #8 of 139 (4066 views)
Shortcut
I've got about 1400 jumps and am loading at 1.9:1, so I'm under the chart right now. Until I had 900 jumps I had been well over the chart since just under 200 jumps. Well over.

dbagdrew  (C 3128)

Dec 5, 2004, 12:03 PM
Post #9 of 139 (4064 views)
Shortcut

I am at ~350 jumps and at a1.3\

So right at the max

Sabre 2-135

Planning on jumping it for a few hundred jumps. But I'm sure a lot of people tell themselves that and it doesn't actually happen.

jumpinjackflash  (B 27757)

Dec 5, 2004, 12:37 PM
Post #10 of 139 (4047 views)
Shortcut
I'm 1 point over the maximum.

My exit weight out the door with equip is approx 212.

I'm flying a 190 Sq Ft Canopy...

I'm loading it at 1.1 and I'm right at 63 jumps right now.

I feel fine with it, no problems to report, however, I won't downsize for a considerable time.

I like the canopy and have no need to go smaller for quite a while.

I would like to go elliptical before going small, in that vein, has anyone heard the "smart" path to that?

I figure instead of downsizing to a 170 when the time comes, I'd like to go to an elliptical, say 170 or 190 Elliptical?

Do they make them that large?

peace,

jjf

P.S. I've read alot of Germaines stuff, hoping to get his book for christmas. Definitly a great teacher.

spoons  (C 103745)

Dec 5, 2004, 1:37 PM
Post #11 of 139 (4020 views)
Shortcut
I seem to be 'well' over the chart:
jumping a safire 149 (actually about 140 sqft) and i weigh 182lbs (weighed just recently :P) kitted up...

makes my WL 1.3, plus it's under 150sqft so that means i should have 500-599 jumps to jump this canopy?! or am i mistaken!?

JonBonGraham  (B 104505)

Dec 5, 2004, 1:40 PM
Post #12 of 139 (4014 views)
Shortcut
Ah, right - makes sense now. Just thought there might have been some warped logic there somewhere!

I know PD sell the Stiletto in a 190, and I think Icarus' quirk is that they'll sell you a canopy in whatever size you want - not sure if they have any limits. My VX230's on the way, though! :)
Are Icarus the only manufacturer to do this, I wonder???

TEric  (C 5240)

Dec 5, 2004, 2:18 PM
Post #13 of 139 (3992 views)
Shortcut
I haven't been within the parameters of the chart since off of student gear.
1-40 student gear 0.76 - 0.83
40-150 sabre 150 @ 1.2
150-350 Stiletto 135 @ 1.35 - This is close, except for the 'subtract 2 pts for <150' parameter.

kallend  (D 23151)

Dec 5, 2004, 3:51 PM
Post #14 of 139 (3945 views)
Shortcut
I am just reading "The parachute and its pilot" by Brian Germain. On the topic of wingloading there is a chart wich contains the maximum recommended wingloadings depending on number of jumps, altitude and canopy size.
I am courious how many jumpers are actually within their limits, so here is the chart:

.

That seems like a non - sequitur. Just because someone exceeds an arbitrary number on a chart does not necessarily mean that he or she exceeds his/her limits.

(This post was edited by kallend on Dec 5, 2004, 7:57 PM)

Dumpster  (D 27314)

Dec 5, 2004, 6:26 PM
Post #15 of 139 (3899 views)
Shortcut
I'm a little high - I'm at 1.36 at 340 jumps-

Dec 5, 2004, 10:36 PM
Post #16 of 139 (3837 views)
Shortcut
Quote:
Just because someone exceeds an arbitrary number on a chart does not necessarily mean that he or she exceeds his/her limits.

True, but guidelines are a way of keeping thing safer.

Dec 5, 2004, 10:36 PM
Post #17 of 139 (3836 views)
Shortcut
Quote:

You've got time.

JonBonGraham  (B 104505)

Dec 6, 2004, 3:14 AM
Post #18 of 139 (3789 views)
Shortcut
Just because someone exceeds an arbitrary number on a chart does not necessarily mean that he or she exceeds his/her limits.

Yeah, but how does a person know what their limits are untill they break them? We need people who have found thier limits and/or the limits of others to TELL US where our limits are, or we will be like a blind man walking towards the edge of a cliff and someday, we might just step over...

(So in other words, we should all take up BASE jumping...)

(Edited to just say that I agree with you, we all have our own personal limits - just raising the point, I guess)

(This post was edited by JonBonGraham on Dec 6, 2004, 3:21 AM)

Squeak  (E 1313)

Dec 6, 2004, 4:20 AM
Post #19 of 139 (3772 views)
Shortcut
Well at 370+ jumps I'm in the "right"spot according to the chart
HOWEVER
I've been at this wingload on this canopy since jump 50 so make of that what you will.

(This post was edited by Squeak on Dec 6, 2004, 4:40 AM)

cbain  (D 25839)

Dec 6, 2004, 4:58 AM
Post #20 of 139 (3758 views)
Shortcut
I have 400+ jumps and am at a 1.25ish wingloading. So I'm below the maximum.

I jump a Firebolt 164 which is elliptical and they make them all the way up to Tandem sizes.

With my currency what it's been lately (~70 jumps a year) I wouldn't want to be jumping anything more loaded than that. I'm actually really suprised that there's no point deduction or something for currency included.

Christina

mouth  (D 24383)

Dec 6, 2004, 6:13 AM
Post #21 of 139 (3730 views)
Shortcut
I'm still at 1.04 at 700+ jumps. Been there since 100 jumps too. Oh well...so I'll never be a HP canopy chick. So be it.

kallend  (D 23151)

Dec 6, 2004, 6:40 AM
Post #22 of 139 (3717 views)
Shortcut
Just because someone exceeds an arbitrary number on a chart does not necessarily mean that he or she exceeds his/her limits.

Yeah, but how does a person know what their limits are untill they break them? We need people who have found thier limits and/or the limits of others to TELL US where our limits are, or we will be like a blind man walking towards the edge of a cliff and someday, we might just step over...

(So in other words, we should all take up BASE jumping...)

(Edited to just say that I agree with you, we all have our own personal limits - just raising the point, I guess)

Do you believe the limits of, say, a test pilot are in the same place as the limits of, say, a couch potato with 20/180 vision?

We have test pilots and couch potatos within the ranks of skydivers.

With the greatest respect to Brian G., one number does not fit all.

Dec 6, 2004, 7:09 AM
Post #23 of 139 (3698 views)
Shortcut
282 jumps, 0.85:1 wingloading. Have been on that wingloading since jump # 8. I'll be downsizing to a 150 sometime next year - probably mid to late season as I'll do custom colors again.

Ron

Dec 6, 2004, 7:14 AM
Post #24 of 139 (3696 views)
Shortcut
1-370 Raven II 220 sf 7 cell F-111 at 0.77 (and I was considered a hot dog)

370-600 Stiletto 120 at 1.41

600-750 Stiletto 107 at 1.58

750-850~950 FX 88 at 1.93

850- 1500 ST107

1500-3300 Velo 96 at 1.77 and ST107 at 1.58

Mostly under, now still under

larsrulz  (C 34603)

Dec 6, 2004, 7:52 AM
Post #25 of 139 (3668 views)
Shortcut
With the greatest respect to Brian G., one number does not fit all.

But the original poster explicitely stated that Brian Germain's book gave a recommended maximum wingloading. I'm sure Brian does not consider his one chart the end all, be all of the issue, but it is certainly excellent information to be out there. Some jumpers (I have seen some on this board) have been recommended by their instructors and fellow jumpers to purchase canopies that are much to advanced for their skill level, even the best 50 jump wonder out there. Just like BillVon's downsizing recommendation isn't the end all, be all, neither is Brian Germain's downsizing recommendation, but the existence of a explicitly stated recommendation from individuals with much more experience than the majority of jumpers isn't something to be criticizing.

 1 2 3 4 5 6  View All

Forums : Skydiving : Safety and Training

 General     Announcements     Introductions and Greets Community     Skydivers with Disabilities     Blue Skies - In Memory Of Skydiving     General Skydiving Discussions     Safety and Training     Gear and Rigging     Instructors     Tandem Skydiving     Incidents     Wind Tunnels     Events & Places to Jump     Skydiving History & Trivia Skydiving Disciplines     Swooping and Canopy Control     Relative Work     Freeflying     Canopy Relative Work     Wing Suit Flying     Photography and Video International     En Français     Foro de Salto libre     Stammtisch     Äðîïçîíà.com Dropzone.com     Security and Scam Alerts     Suggestions and Feedback     Error and Bug Reports Archive     2005-2006 USPA BOD Elections     2008-2009 USPA BOD Elections     World Team 2006      2013-2015 USPA BOD Elections     2006-2007 USPA BOD Elections

 Search this forum this category all forums for All words Any words Whole Phrase (options)