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Pilot vs. Sabre2

 

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helldog  (D 28666)

Nov 11, 2004, 10:38 AM
Post #1 of 79 (4767 views)
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Pilot vs. Sabre2 Can't Post

I've been demoing canopies for about 2 months now and have settled in on either a Sabre2 190 or a Pilot 188. I'm looking for input from anyone who has flown both before making a final decision.
Blues
Jim


Fab  (C License)

Nov 11, 2004, 1:32 PM
Post #2 of 79 (4685 views)
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Re: [helldog] Pilot vs. Sabre2 [In reply to] Can't Post

have flown both but like the pilot more...that's just a personal choice....I hear people saying that the pilot has nicer openings then the sabre2..sabre2 is a little more elliptical then the pilot I think...

Have you demoed both canopies? Which do you prefer? They are both good chutes...


Evelyn  (C License)

Nov 11, 2004, 1:58 PM
Post #3 of 79 (4671 views)
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Re: [helldog] Pilot vs. Sabre2 [In reply to] Can't Post

I demoed both the Sabre 2 and the Pilot before deciding on the Pilot. The reason I chose the Pilot is because I'm not very good at landing and my landings were much better with the Pilot. A coach I was working with during the time I was demoing the Sabre 2 said it was "too much canopy for me".


darkwing  (D 4164)

Nov 11, 2004, 2:39 PM
Post #4 of 79 (4657 views)
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Re: [helldog] Pilot vs. Sabre2 [In reply to] Can't Post

I demoed a sabre2-170 but chose a Pilot-168. I much preferred the Pilot's openings, so I bought the Pilot.


Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

Nov 11, 2004, 3:09 PM
Post #5 of 79 (4646 views)
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Re: [helldog] Pilot vs. Sabre2 [In reply to] Can't Post

They are both fine canopies. I jump a Sabre2 (97)in my wingsuit rig and love it. My wife owns two Pilots (124's). She had two sizes of Sabre2's before deciding she liked the Pilot better.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Nov 11, 2004, 4:06 PM
Post #6 of 79 (4633 views)
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Re: [helldog] Pilot vs. Sabre2 [In reply to] Can't Post

I've flown both. I like the Pilot a little better, but they are both good canopies.

BTW question to everyone else - is it just me, or does this question get asked about once a week?


bob.dino  (E 2185)

Nov 11, 2004, 9:06 PM
Post #7 of 79 (4584 views)
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Re: [billvon] Pilot vs. Sabre2 [In reply to] Can't Post

Seems that way. The Pilot appears to be exciting a hell of a lot of interest in the States.

Is the interest shown on dz.com matched on the dropzones? Are Pilots selling like hotcakes?


DancingFlame  (C 177476)

Nov 11, 2004, 10:21 PM
Post #8 of 79 (4574 views)
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Re: [helldog] Pilot vs. Sabre2 [In reply to] Can't Post

Tried both, liked Pilot more than Sabre2. Openings are considerably better and on-heading.


TOT  (B 5150)

Nov 11, 2004, 11:04 PM
Post #9 of 79 (4565 views)
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Re: [bob.dino] Pilot vs. Sabre2 [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Is the interest shown on dz.com matched on the dropzones? Are Pilots selling like hotcakes?

kinda... On our DZ there were 2 people that bought brand new canopies thius summer. One was a Sabre2 and the other a Pilot.

Oops sorry 3 people, the other was a velocity.


mr2mk1g  (C 103449)

Nov 12, 2004, 6:13 AM
Post #10 of 79 (4508 views)
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Re: [helldog] Pilot vs. Sabre2 [In reply to] Can't Post

Pilot/Safire 2/Sabre2

I'm undecided between the Pilot and the Safire... the Sabre 2 (in my opinion only!) is inferior to the other two.


Premier GravityGirl  (D 18897)

Nov 12, 2004, 9:04 AM
Post #11 of 79 (4485 views)
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Re: [bob.dino] Pilot vs. Sabre2 [In reply to] Can't Post

My sales on Pilots are up and Sabre2 down only slightly.

Both are great canopies. It really is wonderful to have so many good, solid choices. It makes my job easy. Either way they go, I end up with a saticfied customer!


helldog  (D 28666)

Nov 12, 2004, 9:11 AM
Post #12 of 79 (4482 views)
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Re: [Fab] Pilot vs. Sabre2 [In reply to] Can't Post

havent demoed the pilot yet but love the sabre 2 compared to anything else ive jumped. I'm have some trouble getting a pilot to demo. (nick from aerodyne was great at getting me a triathlon out but hasn't got back to me on the pilotFrown. I know they'll be out at the holiday boogie but I'd like to get something before I go on vacation (San Diego, Vegas Baby!, and Eloy).
Blues
Jim


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Nov 12, 2004, 9:49 AM
Post #13 of 79 (4465 views)
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Re: [bob.dino] Pilot vs. Sabre2 [In reply to] Can't Post

>Are Pilots selling like hotcakes?

When Aerodyne stops at a DZ, they end up selling a bunch of their demos - which is a nice problem to have, not being able to keep demos in stock. I'm glad the Pilot is doing well; they had some troubles with the Vision and A-Max initially.


NickB  (C 34412)

Nov 12, 2004, 10:39 AM
Post #14 of 79 (4447 views)
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Re: [helldog] Pilot vs. Sabre2 [In reply to] Can't Post

Jim,
I would like to apologize for not being able to get you a Pilot 188 demo yet. I have been on the road quite a bit and have just gotten back in the office. You are next on my list for a Pilot 188 demo, but as you can tell, this is a very popular canopy and all of my demos are out at this time. I should have one returning very soon, which I will gladly send to you. As far as Bill Von Novak's reply in that we sell our demos, this actually isn't true. We have sold some old stock color patterns at certain events, but I try to keep all of my demos, because to be honest with you, it is such a popular canopy that I need all of the demos I have. I will be in touch with you shortly by email to set you up with my next 188 demo.
Regards,
Nick

Nick Bosco
Sales Representative
North & South America
Aerodyne Research Corporation
12649 Race Track Road
Tampa, FL 33626

Tel. +1 813 891-6300
Fax. +1 813 891-6315
Mobile +1 813 679-7190
n.bosco@aerodyne-int.com
www.aerodyne-int.com


mjrod  (B 27962)

Nov 12, 2004, 10:11 PM
Post #15 of 79 (4393 views)
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Re: [NickB] Pilot vs. Sabre2 [In reply to] Can't Post

Nick,

Is there any chance there will be a Pilot 230 in the future? I was advised by Aubrey Easterlin that the Solo was the same canopy, but a hybrid, Your thoughts or input are appreciated.

Thanks,

miguel


NickB  (C 34412)

Nov 15, 2004, 10:49 AM
Post #16 of 79 (4301 views)
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Re: [mjrod] Pilot vs. Sabre2 [In reply to] Can't Post

Aubrey's statement on this is correct. The Solo is the same airfoil as the Pilot, only it is built with a hybrid construction. The main reason why we have done this is for ease of packing. The flight characteristics are the same and the openings are still the same sweet openings the Pilot is known for. As far as if we will produce a 230 Pilot, I will have to check with our engineers on that. I'm not quite sure that the demand is there for something like that. A lot of people have a misconception on using "F-111" for the bottom skin thinking that this will affect the flight characteristics of larger canopies. The best thing I can suggest to you would be to get in touch with me and let me send you a Solo demo. I can assure you, you will be please with how the canopy performs in all aspects, from opening to flight.

Regards

Nick Bosco
Sales Representative
North & South America
Aerodyne Research Corporation
12649 Race Track Road
Tampa, FL 33626

Tel. +1 813 891-6300
Fax. +1 813 891-6315
Mobile +1 813 679-7190
n.bosco@aerodyne-int.com
www.aerodyne-int.com


katiebear21  (D 28324)

Nov 15, 2004, 4:22 PM
Post #17 of 79 (4244 views)
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Re: [helldog] Pilot vs. Sabre2 [In reply to] Can't Post

My progression:

Navigator/Raider (29)
Sabre 170 (4)
Sabre2 150 (250)
Sabre2 135 (14)
Pilot 132 (20)
Pilot 124 (50)

I like the Pilot for its awesome openings (partly due to the gigantic slider) and its consistency. I don't have to roll the nose or do anything special while packing to slow it down or to soften the opening. I love the colored packing tabs which help me when pro-packing ensure the line groups are separated in order to prevent a lineover. I jump the Pilot with my Classic Bird-Man suit and have had no problems at all. I like the landings as well. If I want a slow docile landing, I just ensure my approach is the standard approach. If I want to add some speed, I add a little front riser turn to build up some speed for a zippier landing.

I really liked my Sabre 2 canopies but I have completely fallen in love with my Pilot. I own 2 of them because the price was so incredibly reasonable as well!Cool


BlueEyedMonster  (D 26880)

Nov 15, 2004, 7:00 PM
Post #18 of 79 (4221 views)
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Re: [helldog] Pilot vs. Sabre2 [In reply to] Can't Post

I demo'd both a Pilot 150 and a Sabre2 150. The Pilot opened much softer and on heading more often. Plus it doesn't need any special packing techniques. (such as rolling the nose or anything) The Sabre2 openings were almost violent.

I purchased the Pilot... I can say I am very VERY happy with it. And, I very happy that I had a choice other than the Sabre2. Thank you Aerodyne.


Airline3  (D License)

Nov 16, 2004, 3:25 AM
Post #19 of 79 (4177 views)
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Re: [BlueEyedMonster] Pilot vs. Sabre2 [In reply to] Can't Post

What I found is that the Pilot and Saber2 are totally different canopies, the Saber2 is a higher performance canopy. The Saber 2 has more flare at the bottom end. Some people are just not ready for a higher performance canopy. The pilot is a much more docile canopy. It just depends on what your looking for in a canopy. You can't judge the performance of a canopy just by the turn rate, if you could a Stiletto would be higher performance than a Velocity Wink. I think thats why people are comparing the Pilot and Saber2, they have a similar turn rate.

On packing the Saber2, if you were rolling the nose and doing "special" stuff to it you were just making it open bad.


VectorBoy  (F 321)

Nov 16, 2004, 8:04 AM
Post #20 of 79 (4145 views)
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Re: [Airline3] Pilot vs. Sabre2 [In reply to] Can't Post

 Can you explain how one would be considered more high performance than the other? Like you said its not just based on turn speed. So what is it, I'm curious, that makes one more hi-perf. More nuetral static flight airspeed? Trimmed for higher rate of descent? Better flare at slower flight?
I think they are marketed to the same skydiver demographic.


JumpRu  (D License)

Nov 16, 2004, 8:22 AM
Post #21 of 79 (4140 views)
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Re: [helldog] Pilot vs. Sabre2 [In reply to] Can't Post

i made 1 jump on a pilot and 2 on sabre2, both are great (compared to my old sabers), i like pilot opening better it was as soft at crossfire but completely on heading like specter.
I cant say much about in flight performance due to relatively low WL on both but I do remember that pilot sweet spot was lower them PD.
Does Pilot have F111 ribs? Fabric there felt a little different.


The111  (D 29246)

Nov 16, 2004, 9:02 PM
Post #22 of 79 (4074 views)
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Re: [VectorBoy] Pilot vs. Sabre2 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Can you explain how one would be considered more high performance than the other? Like you said its not just based on turn speed. So what is it, I'm curious, that makes one more hi-perf. More nuetral static flight airspeed? Trimmed for higher rate of descent? Better flare at slower flight?
I think they are marketed to the same skydiver demographic.

I know nothing, but I have heard that a skilled pilot can get a pretty decent swoop out of a Sabre2. Is the same true for a Pilot? Maybe this is the performance difference being referred to...


fffff  (D 85224)

Nov 17, 2004, 12:05 AM
Post #23 of 79 (4050 views)
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Re: [The111] Pilot vs. Sabre2 [In reply to] Can't Post

You can make very nice swoops with the Pilot, it builds up good speed when making a frontriser turn and has a nice powerful flare. The pilot can be as fast as a Stiletto only the openings are nicer.


(This post was edited by fffff on Nov 17, 2004, 3:31 AM)


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Nov 17, 2004, 3:45 PM
Post #24 of 79 (3960 views)
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Re: [Airline3] Pilot vs. Sabre2 [In reply to] Can't Post

> What I found is that the Pilot and Saber2 are totally different canopies,
> the Saber2 is a higher performance canopy. The Saber 2 has more flare
> at the bottom end.

My experience is that the Pilot has a better bottom end flare, but the Sabre has a slightly longer recovery arc, making hook turns a little safer to set up.

(someone else said)
>Can you explain how one would be considered more high performance than the other?

There are many ways. A more steeply trimmed canopy will land better but will not glide as far; many swooping canopies have such a characteristic. A longer recovery arc means you can start the swoop higher and hold more speed for landing. A line geometry change can reduce front-riser pressure which can help with front riser turns, and can also affect rear-riser flare characteristics (these are often used to plane out for long distances.) A cathedraling change (via line length) can affect stability, openings and glide distance. There are a great many variables. In _general_ a high performance canopy (as the term is commonly used) is a canopy that flies efficiently when heavily loaded, has a long recovery arc, and has a good flare stroke.


psychoswooper  (D License)

Nov 17, 2004, 7:26 PM
Post #25 of 79 (3931 views)
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New [In reply to] Can't Post

    Many jumpers at our DZ -Tallahassee FL --have jumped both canopies. That is: Pilots and Sabre 2's. The general concensus seems to be. Pilot opens much better & turns faster.
Sanre 2 is a bit easier to land regardless of technique. General overall preference is for the Pilots.
We have available for demo purposes a Pilot 210, Pilot 188 & Pilot 168, as well as a vision 117 and if you need a slightly bigger canopy, a Solo 230.


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