Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Swooping and Canopy Control:
1.1:1 or 1.0:1

 

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Viking  (B 30397)

Apr 15, 2002, 2:41 PM
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1.1:1 or 1.0:1 Can't Post

Ok on sunday Lisa and i got into a short conversation about my new canopy i am buying in a couple months. I am planning on buying a Hornet 190 loaded at 1.1. Lisa thought i should get 210 at 1.0. My argument is that a .1 difference is not going to kill me and that i would like to have somthing to grow into. Also i don't plan on going from a 260-288 straight to my 190. It will take me a little bit of time to get the $$$$ together and then another 6 weeks for delivery. So i will have time to demo a 230,210, and a 190.

Ok you may comence making me look like a newbie. Smile

I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver


rhino  (D 22500)

Apr 15, 2002, 2:46 PM
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Re: 1.1:1 or 1.0:1 [In reply to] Can't Post

I won't argue with skybitch on this one. I would assume she has seen you under canopy and knows what she is talking about. When in doubt go big!!

Rhino

Blue Skies ..... Wink



nacmacfeegle  (D 11004)

Apr 15, 2002, 2:46 PM
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Re: 1.1:1 or 1.0:1 [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd go with Lisa's advice, she has experience, and wisdom, and your interests at heart.
Nobody will flame you for erring on the safe side......

Cya
D


SkydiveMonkey  (B 102345)

Apr 15, 2002, 2:49 PM
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Re: 1.1:1 or 1.0:1 [In reply to] Can't Post

Lisa knows what she's talking about, and I assume has seen you under canopy? Listen to her - she might save your ass someday by giving you a larger canopy.

When you participate in sporting events, its not whether you win or loose, its how drunk you get. Laugh


Jimbo  (D License)

Apr 15, 2002, 2:52 PM
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Re: 1.1:1 or 1.0:1 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
My argument is that a .1 difference is not going to kill me and that i would like to have somthing to grow into.
You don't want to have to 'grow into' a canopy. The statement alone suggests that you think you'll be flying at the edge, or just beyond the edge of your ability.

If you want to buy a 190 then start demoing canopies and work your way down, at a pace that's comfortable for you and those who have to watch you land, to the 190. When in doubt, take the advice of those who have seen you fly.

Stay safe...

-
Jim



Viking  (B 30397)

Apr 15, 2002, 3:01 PM
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Re: 1.1:1 or 1.0:1 [In reply to] Can't Post

"The statement alone suggests that you think you'll be flying at the edge, or just beyond the edge of your ability."

I want to have the ability to fly at the edge yes. BUT that in no way means i will be doing it anytime soon.

I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver


AndyMan  (D 25698)

Apr 15, 2002, 3:39 PM
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Re: 1.1:1 or 1.0:1 [In reply to] Can't Post

Lisa's one of the few people that I rarely disagree with.

I will tell my story, and it's a bit different. I was lucky enough to be at a DZ that had a full complement of rental gear in different sizes. When I showed up at this DZ I had maybe 18 jumps all on a Raven 4 - 280 sqrFt. Because this DZ had such a good collection of rental gear I was able to slowly downsize, 20 sqrtFt at a time. I eventually went from 280 down to 190, which was about a 1.1 wingloading at the time.

This was the recomendation of the DZO, who's now a USPA board member. Sherry Butcher is also one of those people who I'll rarely disagree with. However, her advise was directed specifcally to me, not you.

I would think though, that as long as you really do lots and lots of demo jumps, and really do move down one size at a time, and do at least a handful of jumps on each size, and get instruction throughout the process, you WILL be ready for the 1.1 wingloading by the time you get there.

That said, I don't know you, I've never seen you fly, I have no idea what skills you have, and I generally trust the opinions of Lisa.

_Am

ICQ: 5578907
MSN Messenger: andrewdmetcalfe at hotmail dot com
AIM: andrewdmetcalfe
Yahoo IM: ametcalf_1999


Premier quade  (D 22635)
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Apr 15, 2002, 3:41 PM
Post #8 of 40 (2939 views)
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Re: 1.1:1 or 1.0:1 [In reply to] Can't Post

Buy the 1:1 canopy.

Be sure your container will fit the 1:1 canopy as well as a slightly smaller one for when you downsize.


quade

http://futurecam.com


Viking  (B 30397)

Apr 15, 2002, 4:11 PM
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Re: 1.1:1 or 1.0:1 [In reply to] Can't Post

oooook care to elaborate?

I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver


Premier quade  (D 22635)
Moderator
Apr 15, 2002, 4:29 PM
Post #10 of 40 (2925 views)
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Re: 1.1:1 or 1.0:1 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
oooook care to elaborate?
Different containers are sized to different mains. It has to do with the pack volume of each main -- how much room each main takes up when it's packed. A Spectre 210 takes up more space than a Spectre 190.

You'll -probably- have your container longer than you'll have your main.

You -don't- want a container that is too small for your first main, but you also don't want a container that is too big for what you think will be your second main. It's just a matter of economics!


quade

http://futurecam.com


Viking  (B 30397)

Apr 15, 2002, 4:34 PM
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Re: 1.1:1 or 1.0:1 [In reply to] Can't Post

whoops forgot to mention that bill von is lending me one of his rigs its a talon 2 i am not sure what size but the reserve is a 210.

I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver


Premier skybytch  (D License)

Apr 15, 2002, 4:47 PM
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Re: 1.1:1 or 1.0:1 [In reply to] Can't Post

Well... we all know I'm conservative. I suggested the 210 for you because at your experience level that 20 extra square feet really may make the difference between walking back from the landing area and limping back. You'll also probably be jumping at Perris and/or Elsinore too, right? Both of those dz's are at a higher ground altitude than Otay; my 170 flies faster at Perris than it does at Otay (did you see my landings yesterday? I don't land that good at Perris!).

I'd really suggest waiting to order your main until after you've downsized to a 210 - 5-10 jumps on a 230 once you've got your A license, then at least that many on a 210 before ordering. If you're standing up 100% of the landings on a 210 (into the wind, crosswind, funky Perris summer winds, no wind...) and you think you want a bit more speed, then consider ordering a 190.

pull & flare,
lisa


SkydiveMonkey  (B 102345)

Apr 15, 2002, 4:49 PM
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Re: 1.1:1 or 1.0:1 [In reply to] Can't Post

It's better to be conservative though - you've got your whole skydiving career to downsize, and if you downsize too quickly before you have got the skills, that career might be over too soon.

When you participate in sporting events, its not whether you win or loose, its how drunk you get. Laugh


AggieDave  (D License)

Apr 15, 2002, 4:59 PM
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Re: 1.1:1 or 1.0:1 [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey, that .1 or so difference for me between a 170 and a 190 is *very* noticable. I can handle a 190 with out problems (*knock on wood*), but the few jumps I put on a couple different 170s convinced me I wasn't ready for one yet. Maybe in another 50 jumps or so, but not yet. Smile


A human cannonball, I rise above it all
Up higher then a trapieze, I can fly


airdrew20012001  (D 24834)

Apr 15, 2002, 5:09 PM
Post #15 of 40 (2894 views)
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Re: 1.1:1 or 1.0:1 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I won't argue with skybitch on this one.
Bah! That Lisa chick doesn't know her ass from a hot rock. Go small and eliptical!

In all seriouseness, take your sweet time. The smaller the canopy the harder they bite, ask anyone who has had broken femers in this sport, I bet more than half will say they were flying over their heads. Had it not been for my docile triathalon 160 I would probably dead right now and I was loading it at about 1.1 to 1.

Drewfus McDoofus


Viking  (B 30397)

Apr 15, 2002, 5:19 PM
Post #16 of 40 (2891 views)
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Re: 1.1:1 or 1.0:1 [In reply to] Can't Post

damn thats some good points there Lisa, i hadn't even thought about the change in Alti. Now why steve told me you were dummer than a door nail behind your back i will never figure...out...........oh i geuss he didn't want you hearing that. Laugh

I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver


polarbear  (D 25673)

Apr 15, 2002, 5:22 PM
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Re: 1.1:1 or 1.0:1 [In reply to] Can't Post

I was actually in almost the same situation as you with my first canopy. I would have been loading a 190 at 1.1, a 210 at 1.0. I flew a Sabre 190 and really liked it, but went with the 210 size becasue I sometimes jumped at a DZ with a high field elevation. While I sold the 210 and moved on after only 50 jumps, I think it was the right way to go.



Premier quade  (D 22635)
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Apr 15, 2002, 5:27 PM
Post #18 of 40 (2886 views)
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Re: 1.1:1 or 1.0:1 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
damn thats some good points there Lisa, i hadn't even thought about the change in Alti.
Not only that, but it's starting to get a little warm!

I just posted about density-altitude in the Safety and Training forum.

Check it out HERE.


quade

http://futurecam.com


Engovatov

Apr 15, 2002, 5:41 PM
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1.2 [In reply to] Can't Post

Donna - I have been to Perris once, after a 10 year break in jumping, just repeated AFF here in U.S., and was still on student status.
Nice folks at Square One recommended and rented me a 1.1 loaded Safire without asking anything (I just asked for a canopy to jump)
That means 1.1 is safe in their opinion.
;-))




Premier skybytch  (D License)

Apr 15, 2002, 6:09 PM
Post #20 of 40 (2864 views)
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Re: 1.2 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
That means 1.1 is safe in their opinion.
Ermmm.. no. If you rented from Square One you filled out a waiver on which you had to tell them how many jumps you'd done. Assuming you said on there that you had more than about 100 jumps they probably figured 1.1 was safe for you and that you knew what you were doing. That in no way means that 1.1 is safe for someone with 20 jumps who's never jumped anything smaller than a 260 loaded at .8...


pull & flare,
lisa


Viking  (B 30397)

Apr 15, 2002, 6:11 PM
Post #21 of 40 (2862 views)
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Re: 1.2 [In reply to] Can't Post

"That in no way means that 1.1 is safe for someone with 20 jumps who's never jumped anything smaller than a 260 loaded at .8..."

for some odd reason i feel as if she is refering to me.

I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver


Jimbo  (D License)

Apr 15, 2002, 6:17 PM
Post #22 of 40 (2857 views)
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Re: 1.2 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
for some odd reason i feel as if she is refering to me.
She may very well be referring to you. Now do yourself a favor and listen to the woman, _not_ because she's conservative, but because she's seen you fly, she knows how current you are, and has a better idea of your abilities than more than 99% of the people here.

Stay safe...

-
Jim




Engovatov

Apr 15, 2002, 6:26 PM
Post #23 of 40 (2850 views)
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Re: 1.2 [In reply to] Can't Post

>Ermmm.. no. If you rented from Square One you filled out a waiver on which you had to tell them how many jumps you'd done.

;-) Probably I did. But I am sure I would've honestly told the dude at the counter that they are pretty irrelevant (long time ago, on some rather funky equipment).. I guess I did not make an impression of a delicate flower.. and I think (in retrospect) I knew what I was doing. - so it kinda surprised me.. ;-)).

But I honestly can not tell any sizeble difference in 189 vs 210 except smaller is a bit more controllable on a windy day.. 160 and smaller was noticable..

And of course I am trolling. (Viking - get 210 man.. and practice pull-ups..;-) Still too upset to jump again.. hanging around news groups..


watcher  (D 24876)

Apr 17, 2002, 5:19 PM
Post #24 of 40 (2751 views)
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Re: 1.2 [In reply to] Can't Post

Thats kinda interesting i noticed a small change from the Mantas to the Safire 209, but did not see a big difference in canopy performance till i hit 1.4:1 on a nitron 135 at about a 100 jumps. Now i see a big difference from sub 120 and those above 120. But going from a 288 to 239 to 209 to a 189 (1 jump on each) to a 170 i saw little to no difference and even less down to a 150. Like i said i noticed a difference with the 135, but bought the 120. But i guess its the general feelings of the dropzone you jump at, the views they take and if they are going to tell you to jump something alittle big and not teach you to fly or give you something smaller and teach you how to fly a canopy, i find myself fortuanate to be at a dropzone where they answered all of my questions and provided instructions on canopy control.

As a disclaimer i am considered an agressive pilot, i take canopy flight very seriously not as something to get me from the end of my skydive to the ground but to get every bit of performance out of the canopy and fly its to its limit with a nice surf. I am looking forward to the Velocity. If you are going to take the beast seriously on every single jump and never ever let your concentration stray then downsize, fly something higher loaded, but if there is even one jump you are not going to pay strict attention then dont.

Jonathan
D-24876
Jonathan@gtinviscid.net



Premier quade  (D 22635)
Moderator
Apr 17, 2002, 5:43 PM
Post #25 of 40 (2744 views)
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Re: 1.2 [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey "Ringo". Isn't that a PD Blue jumpsuit? Where'd ya get that from?

(also, it just pisses me off when teams don't include their camera flyers in the team photo!) Smile

Just messin' with ya.


quade

http://futurecam.com


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