Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Freeflying:
Hybrid Question: Best Way To Take Grips?

 


Zennie

Apr 14, 2002, 8:11 AM
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Hybrid Question: Best Way To Take Grips? Can't Post

My first attempt at being one of the hangers in a hybrid dive was pretty much a disaster. A 4-way belly base was built and the plan was for two of us to come in, take chest straps and then key a sit.

I got in OK and managed to get hold of one chest strap, but when I let go of the guy on my right to reach in for his chest strap, I went unstable and dropped underneath the formation. Pretty much turned into a zoo load from there.

I had initially proposed going for the mud flaps on the leg straps. My position being that they would be easier to get grips on. That was nixed in favor of the chest strap approach.

So a couple of questions...

1. Which is generally preferable for taking grips? Chest straps or leg straps?
2. If chest straps are preferable, what's the best approach for getting hold of them (i.e. where should I dock, what's the best way to change out the initial dock to the strap grip)?


"Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."


(This post was edited by Zennie on Apr 14, 2002, 8:15 AM)


Zennie

Apr 14, 2002, 8:31 AM
Post #2 of 16 (1436 views)
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Re: Hybrid Question: Best Way To Take Grips? [In reply to] Can't Post

The reason I asked question #1 was that I thought I had read that the leg straps were the preferable approach.

I dug through my old issues of Skydiving and found an article by Max Cohn in the January 2002 issue. Here's an excerpt on the subject...

"Initially, we had the hangers grab the chest strap of each base flier on his or her left and right. After some experimentation, the mud flaps seem to be more beneficial for both the hangers and the base. It is easier to grab and keep the arms closer together for the hangers, and it provides a handful of harness to securely hold on to. For the base, it puts them out of the hangers' direct burble and it alleviates any worry of a chest strap loosening."

I'd still like to discuss the pros and cons of the chest strap vs. leg strap approach.


"Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."


nacmacfeegle  (D 11004)

Apr 14, 2002, 8:52 AM
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Re: Hybrid Question: Best Way To Take Grips? [In reply to] Can't Post

By mud flaps, is max talking about the 3 ring covers, as opposed to leg straps??

Cya
D


Zennie

Apr 14, 2002, 9:21 AM
Post #4 of 16 (1430 views)
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Re: Hybrid Question: Best Way To Take Grips? [In reply to] Can't Post

I believe he's talking about the mud flaps on the leg straps.

I've examined a bunch of still shots of hybrids and see quite a few leg harness grips.


"Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."


airann  (A 165593)

Apr 14, 2002, 12:09 PM
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Re: Hybrid Question: Best Way To Take Grips? [In reply to] Can't Post

Zennie I got film... (of course)

Anyway.... get this- the dive is going along and Hookit is under sitting and then oops on his back in the middle of the formation. Hi Hookit!

If you are interested I can get you some frame by frames....

Ann ~ www.AirAnn.com
New sponsors for 2002!
(temp page for now)


airann  (A 165593)

Apr 14, 2002, 12:33 PM
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Re: Hybrid Question: Best Way To Take Grips? [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh by the way my new site will be so bad ass....

Dan is writing the whole thing by hand all the scripts - every one.


Texas Skating stuff with the big meet in Oct? John Gibson will be there, Ken Fillion, went pro skater (skydiver) etc will be there. Iffy on Fillion unless Bark Hard plays or tries to. I know Todd Prince is coming in from Calif. John is retired. (at what 30?)

Cyber is writing every bit of it by hand. So it might be a while. But it will not suck with prewritten scripts.

Surfing/Skating
Skydiving
Photos
Guest Book
The Award - which we know is a good thing
The Network - that will be so awesome
The Mentor Program - that works great already
Link page
Sponsors
and what ever else
Oh, my videos!!

There will be a birdman video in there ALL by Levin, of course...
And I have tons of tube dives, one smoke and tube
Then the famous Ann Zennie and Levin jump.....
3 hybrid dive videos - Especially the famous one with Scotty Carbone and Thomas McDowell.
Some Orbit Punk stuff....
There will be some of my stuff... Gotta fix that error I found out about on our dive with Scott yesterday. I must have hit the ground pretty hard to knock my site off. Well, I will fix it today.

That was weird - Cyber was at Waller all day on Saturday and I was at Spaceland.


Ann ~ www.AirAnn.com
New sponsors for 2002!
(temp page for now)


SkyMissy  (D License)

Apr 14, 2002, 8:24 PM
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Re: Hybrid Question: Best Way To Take Grips? [In reply to] Can't Post

Any hybrid dive I've been on, and that's only 3 but they were all organized by Chris Fiala, the grips were on the mud flaps which cover the main lift web near the 3-rings. I haven't seen any on leg straps, but it might not be a bad idea, who knows?

I'm not the man they think I am at home, no;
I'm a rocket man.
Sky World


Zennie

Apr 15, 2002, 5:46 AM
Post #8 of 16 (1372 views)
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Re: Hybrid Question: Best Way To Take Grips? [In reply to] Can't Post

I was reading a different article in a differernt context last night and Max referred to mud flaps on the main lift web, so I'm guessing I read it wrong.

When we were discussing leg straps vs chest straps, it was pointed out that the belly fliers would get dragged down if you grabbed leg straps. Chest straps are more in line with where the belly fliers are taking grips.

The mud flaps on the MLW would still be more forward on the belly fliers but easier to take grips on, so maybe next time we'll try that.


"Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."


airann  (A 165593)

Apr 15, 2002, 12:31 PM
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Re: Hybrid Question: Best Way To Take Grips? [In reply to] Can't Post

If this works you will love it....

Hybrid 1

This one is the best and I will tell you why..... imho

Classic because of Scotty Carbone and Thomas McDowell facing off with each other in the door then doing some RW.

And the filming is excellent. Sean Simon shot it and kudos to him on the angles. (lookit- JHill) I love the way this was shot.

And because it is real funny watching Hookit on this one. LOL

Anyway, its Hybrid1 on my new site, which is not there at this time. Soon.

It took me aprox 2 to 3 minutes for this to load (Quade!) and I have RoadRunner cable whatever that is.

Ann ~ www.AirAnn.com
Anyone want a Kitten?


airann  (A 165593)

Apr 15, 2002, 1:46 PM
Post #10 of 16 (1341 views)
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Re: Hybrid Question: Best Way To Take Grips? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If this works you will love it....
I am working on it... its like rocket science over here..... Damn it, Cartman!!


Ann ~ www.AirAnn.com
Anyone want a Kitten?


airann  (A 165593)

Apr 15, 2002, 1:56 PM
Post #11 of 16 (1337 views)
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Re: Hybrid Question: Best Way To Take Grips? [In reply to] Can't Post

i think it works?

Ann ~ www.AirAnn.com
Anyone want a Kitten?


Jumperpaula  (D 23923)

Apr 16, 2002, 1:07 PM
Post #12 of 16 (1289 views)
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Re: Hybrid Question: Best Way To Take Grips? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
the belly fliers would get dragged down if you grabbed leg straps. Chest straps are more in line with where the belly fliers are taking grips


I would want the extra tension and weight as close to my center of gravity as possible. Im not picturing a stable freefall with someone vertical on my legstraps.

Why don't you ask in the RW forum? What about an extra belly strap to grab onto? Wouldn't be any easier to grab than a chest but seems like it would make a hummin base.


Fly Your Slot !


Zennie

Apr 16, 2002, 8:06 PM
Post #13 of 16 (1273 views)
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Re: Hybrid Question: Best Way To Take Grips? [In reply to] Can't Post

I dug through all my back issues of Skydiving and Parachutist to study as many hybrid shots as I could.

All of the chest strap grips were where the dive had two belly fliers and one hanger. I didn't see any chest grips on dives involving more than one hanger.

On the bigger belly bases, it seemed to be evenly split between grips on the shoulder harness where it meets the chest strap and on the leg harness where it meets the main lift web. The bases on which leg harnesses are taken look from the stills to be stable... they don't appear to be being excessively dragged down by the legs.

I still like the leg harness approach for a few reasons...

1. It's easier for the hanger to get hold of because there's less reaching involved.
2. There's no worries of a belly flier's chest strap being pulled out.
3. Burble issues are reduced.
4. If a hanger corks, since he/she is further back, he won't slam into the belly base as easily. If he/she doesn't funnel the base, a graceful recovery will be easier.
5. The belly flier's cutaway/reserve handles are too far away to be accidentally grabbed.

The more I think about the chest strap approach, especially in light of my own experience, the more I dislike it. Too many bad things can happen. For example, as I fell away I reached up to try and grab the chest strap that I had missed. What if I had accidentally grabbed the reserve handle? It happened incredibly fast and my reaction was more or less instictive.

The leg harness approach just seems to make a lot more sense from a logistical and safety approach.

I'll post this in the RW forum as well.


"Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."


FreeflyGoat  (D 26046)

Apr 20, 2002, 11:31 PM
Post #14 of 16 (1216 views)
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Re: Hybrid Question: Best Way To Take Grips? [In reply to] Can't Post

When I have been under 2ways I think the chest strap works best. When I have been under 4ways and a 6way I have always grabbed the mudflaps which are right below the 3rings and above the chest strap. This has always worked for me and was the way I was shown by Chris Fiala.



Goat aka Dereck aka SuperFreak
AD A#292



airann  (A 165593)

Apr 21, 2002, 7:37 AM
Post #15 of 16 (1212 views)
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Re: Hybrid Question: Best Way To Take Grips? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Goat... I named a kitten after you....

In this video its a grip as Goat described. The leg strap is too far back.

Ann ~ www.AirAnn.com
Anyone want a Kitten?


Craig

Apr 21, 2002, 5:05 PM
Post #16 of 16 (1200 views)
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Re: Hybrid Question: Best Way To Take Grips? [In reply to] Can't Post

This weekend we built a 6 way hybrid. During the dirtdive the legstrap grips were brought up but it was decided on the chest strap grips. So, a three way base launched and held upper arm grips. The three hangers come in on their bellies and fly into their slots on the three way and reach under for grips on the chest straps (one grip on the person to the right and one on the person to the left)..and it was keyed for the three to swing under into a sitfly. Worked out and was a fun dive, not to mention my first hybrid (I know...BEER). On the ground the hangers said it was a little work to get the grips but not too bad. It would have been nice to get video outside the dive but it was only from jumpers within the dive so it didn't show much as far as the building process.




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