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'Flop' or 'Roll' packing...

 

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masterrig  (D License)

Aug 30, 2004, 6:12 PM
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'Flop' or 'Roll' packing... Can't Post

Had a 'little' discussion in regard to 'flop' or 'roll' packing main parachutes at our DZ, this past week-end and am looking for ideas, pros - cons. Thanks, in advance for any in-put.

Chuck


sundevil777  (D License)

Aug 30, 2004, 6:18 PM
Post #2 of 28 (1201 views)
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Re: [masterrig] 'Flop' or 'Roll' packing... [In reply to] Can't Post

A stack pack is a better option. The nose can still be oriented forward, and the tail wrapped around like a pro pack.

Reserves are often packed that way. A rigger should be able to show you how to do it for a main.


AggieDave  (D License)

Aug 30, 2004, 6:25 PM
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Re: [sundevil777] 'Flop' or 'Roll' packing... [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Reserves are often packed that way. A rigger should be able to show you how to do it for a main.

Psssst. Click on his profile.Wink


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Aug 30, 2004, 6:36 PM
Post #4 of 28 (1189 views)
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Re: [masterrig] 'Flop' or 'Roll' packing... [In reply to] Can't Post

Chuck,
I use a version of the flop pack on a Sharpchuter and have had good results for several years and over 1500 jumps with it.
I lay it flat, fold the nose over to the "A" lines. Then fold the "A" lines over to the "B" lines. Fold the "D" lines over to the "C" lines and quarter the tail down toward the rig. Now set the brakes and bring the slider up to the stops and between the stabilizers. Fold the "D"/"C" line stack in to the middle and then fold the "A"/"B" line stack over that. "S" fold and place in bag.
I have used it on a varity of Lo-Po 7 cells over the years and has always worked.
Sparky

PS: If you know a good rigger, he can help you with this.TongueCrazy


(This post was edited by mjosparky on Aug 30, 2004, 8:40 PM)


sundevil777  (D License)

Aug 30, 2004, 6:45 PM
Post #5 of 28 (1184 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] 'Flop' or 'Roll' packing... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
Reserves are often packed that way. A rigger should be able to show you how to do it for a main.

Psssst. Click on his profile.Wink

BlushTongue


diablopilot  (D License)

Aug 31, 2004, 12:00 AM
Post #6 of 28 (1113 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] 'Flop' or 'Roll' packing... [In reply to] Can't Post

Lets go pack my canopy like this next week.


Smile


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Aug 31, 2004, 12:09 AM
Post #7 of 28 (1111 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] 'Flop' or 'Roll' packing... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Lets go pack my canopy like this next week.


Smile

Works for me!SmileWink


masterrig  (D License)

Aug 31, 2004, 5:43 AM
Post #8 of 28 (1052 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] 'Flop' or 'Roll' packing... [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey, Sparky!

Someone started talking about various ways of packing mains and this method came-up in the conversation. I recall, years back, seeing a lot of line burning to mains that were flop-packed. Probaby, from getting in a hurry. One person suggested, a 'higher risk' of line-overs with a 'pro-pack'. Thanks, for the in-put.

Chuck


(This post was edited by masterrig on Aug 31, 2004, 5:49 AM)


councilman24  (D 8631)

Aug 31, 2004, 5:51 AM
Post #9 of 28 (1047 views)
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Re: [masterrig] 'Flop' or 'Roll' packing... [In reply to] Can't Post

This is the only pack job that is truely asymetrical and loads one side of the canopy differently than the other. A standard pre pro pack stack pack, fold nose, b on a, c on b, d on c, split and cocoon the tail is still a Proper Ramair Orientation. The canopy is collapsed side to side and s folded front to back. It just starts off turned 90 degrees. The only difference between that and a pro pack is whether the fabric is s folded out each side individually or s folded back and forth all together.

The flop pack has one side "hidden" inside the flop and has to "unroll" in an asymetric manner before inflating.

The only pro I know is that it tends to distribute the material side to side in the bag/container better. Our DZ used a flop pack for student Mantas for many years because of the more even bulk. It worked fine with no more malfunctions than normal. I don't have a feel for of heading openings because nobody cared with students, only one jumper in the air.

Certainly, for high performance canopies with high performance lines I'd prefer a symetrical pack job. For non zp with dacron lines I still prefer either symetrical pack job but don't believe the flop pack is "BAD".


masterrig  (D License)

Aug 31, 2004, 5:59 AM
Post #10 of 28 (1042 views)
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Re: [councilman24] 'Flop' or 'Roll' packing... [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks, Terry! I appreciate your in-put. When it came to packing 'student' Mantas, I was taught the good'ol book pack. I'm curious, are the openings, any more or less 'brisk' with 'flop' pack in comparison to a 'book' pack?

Thanks,

Chuck.


councilman24  (D 8631)

Aug 31, 2004, 6:04 AM
Post #11 of 28 (1040 views)
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Re: [masterrig] 'Flop' or 'Roll' packing... [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think the pack method in this case is the major contributor to opening speed. You might expect the flop pack to be slower but I don't think that was our experience.


masterrig  (D License)

Aug 31, 2004, 6:20 AM
Post #12 of 28 (1033 views)
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Post deleted by masterrig [In reply to]

 


councilman24  (D 8631)

Aug 31, 2004, 6:22 AM
Post #13 of 28 (1032 views)
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Re: [masterrig] 'Flop' or 'Roll' packing... [In reply to] Can't Post

Hmmmm, the ghost post.Shocked


masterrig  (D License)

Aug 31, 2004, 6:23 AM
Post #14 of 28 (1030 views)
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Re: [councilman24] 'Flop' or 'Roll' packing... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think, you answered my question! I have contended, the 'flop' pack, opened faster. just from observing openings of student mains that were 'flop' packed and 'experienced' jumper's mains, that were 'pro' packed.

Thanks,

Chuck


(This post was edited by masterrig on Aug 31, 2004, 6:25 AM)


masterrig  (D License)

Aug 31, 2004, 6:23 AM
Post #15 of 28 (1029 views)
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Re: [councilman24] 'Flop' or 'Roll' packing... [In reply to] Can't Post

Oops!Crazy


(This post was edited by masterrig on Aug 31, 2004, 11:49 AM)


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Aug 31, 2004, 8:30 AM
Post #16 of 28 (988 views)
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Re: [masterrig] 'Flop' or 'Roll' packing... [In reply to] Can't Post

I used to roll-pack my Strato-Cloud - to soften openings - when I jumped in Claresholm, Alberta (3,500 feet MSL).
But that technique did not transfer gracefully to wing-loadings exceeding 1:1. We flop-packed F-111 Strong Tandem mains - for years - but that never resulted in comfortable openings (using the factory-recommended method). You always got slammed in one shoulder or the other. We never got comfortable openings on F-111 tandem mains until we started Pro-packing. With Pro-packing, openings were still hard, but at least they were symmetrical.
The only canopies I still flop-pack, assymetrically (as per the manual) are Strong tandem reserves, but that is a case of trying to slow openings at tandem terminal.


skybill  (D 6009)

Aug 31, 2004, 9:52 AM
Post #17 of 28 (964 views)
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Re: [masterrig] 'Flop' or 'Roll' packing... [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Rig,
Flip, Flop, Roll, Pro, Trash, U-Name-it they all have their place. Take Sparky's post a notch further. I put the slider on top of the stabs. and fold the d-c and a-b to the middle, butted against each other. Then fold the d-c over the a-b. Take about 10" fold from the slider/stabs. and pull it up on top. Rotate canopy 90 degrees and fold top down over the rest. The whole package fits the bag perfect! Had to take 2" out of my closing loop. Some of my friends named my pack job the "Deli-Roll!" Works fine on most 7 and 9 cell F-111 / lo-po type canopys. Worked fine on my Dragonfly and Rascal also on PD-230 and 210's I've jumped. Nice soft on heading openings. Rich Iccobachi asked me to show him the Deli-Roll as his PD-230 was wacking him on opening. When he came down from the jump with the Deli-roll I asked how it was, he said," I let go of the pilotchute and didn't feel anything so I thought I had a mal, I looked up and the canopy was open and flying fine!!" Yup, just transition from vertical to horizontal flight with little or no stress on you or your canopy!! As far as zp elipticals, I stick with pro-packing. As for line burns on some roll packs, I'm not surprised the way I've seen a few roll packs done. Good luck if you try a roll-pack on a ZP eliptical, you're probably in for Mr. Toad's Wild Ride!!


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Aug 31, 2004, 10:04 AM
Post #18 of 28 (957 views)
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Re: [skybill] 'Flop' or 'Roll' packing... [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey Bill,
Get you ass out to Calif. and lets jump. I have been using the pack I described since you were living out here. No line burns and I think due too the size of the canopy, the openings are soft and on heading.
Sparky


masterrig  (D License)

Aug 31, 2004, 11:44 AM
Post #19 of 28 (932 views)
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Re: [riggerrob] 'Flop' or 'Roll' packing... [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey, Rob!

Isn't the Strong Tandem Reserve, per the mfgr's. instructions, kind of a 'hi-brid' 'flop - book' pack? The A - B lines being rolled or flopped where the C - D lines are 'stacked. I never got into straight 'flop' packing. My first parachute was an old Classiflier with a 26' Navy conical, 4-line release reserve and a Maverone main. That, I book packed. Mainly because, noone at our DZ, really knew or understood pro-packing, which was rather new at the time. Later, after I got into Z-P (Sabre -170), I pro-packed, which I pretty much, taught myself. This thread has been interesting as well as informative! It'a all a learning curve.
Thanks!

Chuck


masterrig  (D License)

Aug 31, 2004, 11:53 AM
Post #20 of 28 (924 views)
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Re: [skybill] 'Flop' or 'Roll' packing... [In reply to] Can't Post

I've seen one or two openings where an eliptical was 'flop' packed... you could hear the screams from the ground!Laugh

Chuck


hookitt  (D License)

Aug 31, 2004, 12:13 PM
Post #21 of 28 (922 views)
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Re: [masterrig] 'Flop' or 'Roll' packing... [In reply to] Can't Post

I've Roll packed every single canopy I've owned several times just to see how they would open.

My Xaos was pointed sideways out of the bag but the opening was nice and comfy. Same results with the stilettos.

I Suspect since the lines tend to get twisted up, that those people with the slammers, failed to get the slider all the way up.


peek  (D 8884)

Aug 31, 2004, 12:32 PM
Post #22 of 28 (918 views)
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Re: [hookitt] 'Flop' or 'Roll' packing... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I've Roll packed every single canopy I've owned several times just to see how they would open.

Fantastic research! Everyone should do this.

You can pack any parachute with any method and it works fine if you know what you are doing.

Some pack jobs are a bit more symmetrical than others.


hookitt  (D License)

Aug 31, 2004, 12:35 PM
Post #23 of 28 (915 views)
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Re: [peek] 'Flop' or 'Roll' packing... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Fantastic research! Everyone should do this.
OOOohhh.. I don't know about that.Laugh






Maybe you were kidding?


diablopilot  (D License)

Aug 31, 2004, 12:37 PM
Post #24 of 28 (914 views)
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Re: [hookitt] 'Flop' or 'Roll' packing... [In reply to] Can't Post

I followed hookitt's lead.....They work on elipticals too. No matter what pack job is used, the key to good openings is getting the slider where it belongs. Once out of the bag, not a lot else seems to matter. Prior to that things like stowing risers cleanly, and making sure there is enough slack line in the container help to pervent linetwists.


masterrig  (D License)

Aug 31, 2004, 2:23 PM
Post #25 of 28 (887 views)
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Re: [hookitt] 'Flop' or 'Roll' packing... [In reply to] Can't Post

We've got a guy at our DZ like that. I have seen him 'flop' pack everything from a Pegasus to a Stiletto and about everything in-between. He swears by it. He started jumping in the '70's, about the time squares were just making a 'splash' in the sport and the Paradactyl was becoming passe'.

Chuck


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