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1st reserve deployment.

 

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borisattva

Aug 29, 2004, 9:15 PM
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1st reserve deployment. Can't Post

AFF jump 4.
the only thing new was the method of exit, unassisted and diving 'downwind' as opposed to stand-up+step-out.
after mentally drilling the flight plan several dozen times on the way up,
i felt confident and relaxed even when i peeked out of the plane, and spotted the dropzone (i'm afraid of heights).

hotel check, countdown, exit - good,
until about 2-3 seconds into the stabilization i realize that my jm in front of me was drifting left - i turning right.
this happened to me before on AFF3, but with some struggling i was able to stop and do the left turn.
this time it was different in that no matter how much i felt i was trying to lean left, i kept turning right.
'arch, breath, relax' was being done, but did not seem to have any helpful effect, plus i wasnt turning flatly, but rather wobbling up and down.
after seconds of compleyely fruitless effort, the only thing i was 100% certain about was that my rotation was becoming flatter and right turn was accelerating. my jm and the cameraman were now but a blur.

i figured that struggling further was unlikely to produce any positive effect, and continuing at this rate was only going to risk knocking out the jm should he try to approach me to help stop the spin or pull the pilot chute.
so i reached and pulled.

as i did that, it came together in my mind that with the spinning and the chute opening, i was in for some line twist.
3 seconds into deployment i realized that i was still spinning, somewhat on my back, 4 seconds i looked 'up' and saw a picture-perfect line twist, the 'climbing rope' - slider to harness, just like how they show on the cards during ground school.

i had a very mild line twist on my 3rd AFF 4 weeks before, propably because i looked up a little too soon, and that one i was able to resolve quicky and 'by the book.' but that situation was very stable since i was right beneath the canopy and the only threat was that i did not have control WHERE i was going, but the actual descent was as safe as it could be.

this time the line twist was end to end, and instead of being right under the canopy in relation to ground, i was spinning much more horizontally, and with my to the ground. i grabbed a hold of the risers and tryed spreading them like a tangled swing, kicking my feet as i did, but it did not seem to work. i was just dangling, and as far as i knew i was still dropping fast. being unclear how much time i spent on the risers, probably somewhere between 5 and 10 seconds, without checking the altimeter even once, and with my back still to the ground, i did a last effort to turn more face downward and pulled the cutaway.

here was when i was surprised for the 1st time during the whole experience. with my left still hanging on to the reserve ring, and my right holding the cutaway, i was yanked upward violently and dropped the cutaway handle.
my 1st thought was that the reserve chute 'somehow' became deployed too soon and was now entangled with the main manopy. instead, i looked up and saw a perfectly square, beautiful white and blue, albeit - smaller - canopy.

startled but relieved, i let go of the reserve release without pulling it and reached for the toggles.
(yes i KNOW about the RSL, but somehow in all the ground training the 'locate cutaway handle, grab with right, secure with left, look at reserve ring, pull the cutaway, grab with reserve ring with right, secure with left, pull etc drill gave off an impression of some time passing between the cutaway and the reserve deployment. here it felt like a second at most - the chute yanked me up actually just as i reached the ring with left and before i even had a chance to touch it with my right.

after that i had a pretty damn long descent down. it wasnt a total loss since i had a chance to get some practice with the reserve chute controls, which felt quite differently.

disappointing that i didnt nail this one on the 1st try? yes, very.
but rewarding to me was finding out first hand how i would feel and react in an emergency.
this was something that i had been wondering about ever since i became more aware of the possible malfunctions and remedies etc. i did not know if i would get scared or panic, etc.
now i know that i wont.
thanks to the training this emergency felt almost like its was the flight plan.


my next and last surprise of the day was my jm telling me that i should return to complete the jump 'as soon as possible' to maximize the benefits of the experience.
losing control so bad, cutting away, losing the cutaway handle, and not responding to the radio communications (all i heard was crackling) i was sure i overstayed my welcome.

i guess these guys really like beer that i owe them now. :)


let the flaming begin...


sundevil777  (D License)

Aug 29, 2004, 9:56 PM
Post #2 of 36 (2106 views)
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Re: [borisattva] 1st reserve deployment. [In reply to] Can't Post

when did tracking to stop a spin become obsolete?


borisattva

Aug 29, 2004, 10:02 PM
Post #3 of 36 (2100 views)
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Re: [sundevil777] 1st reserve deployment. [In reply to] Can't Post

good question.

i havent thought of tracking as a recovery mechanism for a spin myself, but it makes sense now that youve mentioned it. i'll ask my next jm about it.


labrys  (D 29848)

Aug 30, 2004, 1:23 AM
Post #4 of 36 (2076 views)
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Re: [sundevil777] 1st reserve deployment. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
when did tracking to stop a spin become obsolete?

Should someone doing an AFF 4 jump be expected to know how to track?


kelpdiver  (B 7)

Aug 30, 2004, 2:31 AM
Post #5 of 36 (2062 views)
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Re: [sundevil777] 1st reserve deployment. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
when did tracking to stop a spin become obsolete?

From my neck of the woods L4 doesn't even involve a solo exit, and tracking comes in on L6. L4 is the first time a student is released and asked to do simple turns.

He applied the 5 second rule exactly as intended for AFF students. Sounds like he handled the line twists as well - I've never had more than a single twist and the big chutes self resolved those.


skydiverton  (D 123456789)

Aug 30, 2004, 6:35 AM
Post #6 of 36 (1997 views)
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Re: [kelpdiver] 1st reserve deployment. [In reply to] Can't Post

Congratulations.

You jumped out of an airplane and you survived!

You did right, When in doubt breakaway and pull reserve!


usskydiver  (D 12780)

Aug 30, 2004, 11:54 AM
Post #7 of 36 (1922 views)
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Re: [skydiverton] 1st reserve deployment. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Congratulations.

You jumped out of an airplane and you survived!

You did right, When in doubt breakaway and pull reserve!

Qualified by "at an appropriate altitude." I only chime in because a young lady I knew packed a malfunction (locked toggles) played with it until 600' and her instructors words "when in doubt, whip it out" went through her head. So she did. That was my "trial by fire" as a rigger (I was a newby rigger and had just finished packing the reserve). She bought me a bottle and I bought the DZ a case.

Tim T.
Team Paraclete


Scrumpot  (D License)

Aug 30, 2004, 3:44 PM
Post #8 of 36 (1889 views)
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Re: [borisattva] 1st reserve deployment. [In reply to] Can't Post

YOU did not deploy your reserve. Your RSL did. Not "flaming" you, but has anyone spoken with you yet further about this aspect? If not, then please talk with your instructors & keep thinking! Good job on recognizing that this line twist situation was dissimilar from your previous experience, and realizing that continued UNPRODUCTIVE time = loss of altitude! You took action, and your actions have resulted in your survival. Now take advantage of that survival to leverage the opportunity now presented from it (including even further examining the parts that some may even consider the "mistakes") to also learn even more from it.

Best of wishes to you on your continued progression!
Blue Skies,
-Grant


sundevil777  (D License)

Aug 30, 2004, 4:49 PM
Post #9 of 36 (1874 views)
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Re: [Scrumpot] 1st reserve deployment. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
YOU did not deploy your reserve. Your RSL did.

I think the procedure taught was to use 2 hands on each handle. I believe it would be pretty hard to beat the RSL with that technique, although they admitted to having their hand on it and not pulling.


borisattva

Aug 30, 2004, 7:14 PM
Post #10 of 36 (1862 views)
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Re: [sundevil777] 1st reserve deployment. [In reply to] Can't Post

re: RSL,
yes, i have been taught and i was told off afterwards about it.
truth is, i was really startled by the yank and the feeling theharnes pulling me 'up'
my thougts were of an entangle ment, whether main with resrev, or lines aroundme and main dragging above me. i kept hanging on to my reserve ring as i looked up expecting to have something to untangle from before opening the reserve, and when i saw a perfectly square chute, pulling the ring just felt 'stupid' so i let it be. but yes, i have been talked to about it, hopefully there wont be anext time but if there is i'll be pulling the ring regardless.


re: tracking, i have only done it on my 2nd aff with both jm hanging on to me. i also did it on my 3rd aff starting from a stable decent. but i never though of it as a recovery technique from a spin, and in my case i wonder if i had flown off into either the jm or the camera man had i tried to use it. anyway, as i said i'll talk to my next jm about the pros and cons of this for the future.


crewkeith  (B 24861)

Aug 30, 2004, 8:30 PM
Post #11 of 36 (1844 views)
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Re: [borisattva] 1st reserve deployment. [In reply to] Can't Post

well you came you jumped you lived its a start .




.


kelpdiver  (B 7)

Aug 31, 2004, 2:20 AM
Post #12 of 36 (1818 views)
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Re: [borisattva] 1st reserve deployment. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
re: tracking, i have only done it on my 2nd aff with both jm hanging on to me. i also did it on my 3rd aff starting from a stable decent. but i never though of it as a recovery technique from a spin, and in my case i wonder if i had flown off into either the jm or the camera man had i tried to use it. anyway, as i said i'll talk to my next jm about the pros and cons of this for the future.

Forward motion isn't quite the same as a track where you swing your arms down to your hips. Not sure if that's enough to pull you out of the turn, but part of the point of doing it is to force symmetry into the legs where the problem may be coming from.

do ask them - they almost certainly can move out of your way, or move backwards faster than you can move forwards.


LannerFalcon  (A License)

Sep 2, 2004, 5:25 AM
Post #13 of 36 (1710 views)
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Re: [borisattva] 1st reserve deployment. [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm confused . Aff 4 is a linked exit. How come you were doing a rear dive solo, with your JM not near enough to stop your spin before it became too great.Crazy


skyhighkiy  (B License)

Sep 2, 2004, 7:47 AM
Post #14 of 36 (1699 views)
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Re: [LannerFalcon] 1st reserve deployment. [In reply to] Can't Post

it depends on what course you're doing, my 4th AFF was also an unstable solo exit


LannerFalcon  (A License)

Sep 2, 2004, 10:31 AM
Post #15 of 36 (1684 views)
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Re: [skyhighkiy] 1st reserve deployment. [In reply to] Can't Post

Not heard of that course!


skyhighkiy  (B License)

Sep 2, 2004, 12:44 PM
Post #16 of 36 (1674 views)
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Re: [LannerFalcon] 1st reserve deployment. [In reply to] Can't Post

yeah, my progression was

3 tandems
ground course
3 statics
4 AFFs (IAFs)
HIgh solo
Low Solo


borisattva

Sep 2, 2004, 5:56 PM
Post #17 of 36 (1655 views)
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Re: [skyhighkiy] 1st reserve deployment. [In reply to] Can't Post

i skipped the tandems and the static...

static i dont imagine caring much for, but i did regret not taking the tandem.
what i wouldnt give to get back a full 60 seconds of sheer first-time 'whooooaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh!!!!!!!!!!!'
instead i only got to be stoked for about 2-3 seconds, then i had to snap out and follow the flight plan..Crazy


skyhighkiy  (B License)

Sep 2, 2004, 6:29 PM
Post #18 of 36 (1650 views)
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Re: [borisattva] 1st reserve deployment. [In reply to] Can't Post

yeh, some courses R different, if your course was set up the way mine was, there's no way you could've skipped statics, your dz just has a different course. 4 get tandems man, granted, it's fun for the first one or 2 times, but it's really not worth the money, especially once you taste your first freefall w/ nothing but yourself and the parachute. think about it, that's that much more money you can spend in the air, alone and free Cool


borisattva

Sep 2, 2004, 6:43 PM
Post #19 of 36 (1646 views)
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Re: [skyhighkiy] 1st reserve deployment. [In reply to] Can't Post

oh yeah i definietly know its too late now..
jsut said i WISH i had the 1st jump as a tandem, didnt worry about the Circle of awareness, jm signals, stability etc.. and just flew stoked, with a smile ear to ear and tounge flappin in the air...

every jump since felt a tiny bit little less exciting.. its still awesome, and will be for a long time i'm certain.. but doenst compare with that 1st jump feeling. Cool


borisattva

Sep 12, 2004, 8:36 PM
Post #20 of 36 (1574 views)
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Re: [borisattva] 1st reserve deployment. [In reply to] Can't Post

i was finally able to do a vhs capture.
included is the real time video followed by slow motion.

the video is available on
http://www.skydivingmovies.com/
in section Students.
file name is AFF5failed.WMV

unfortunatley the jms were unable to capture the line twist or the cutaway.

any constructive critisism is much appreciated.


Zoter

Sep 13, 2004, 3:51 AM
Post #21 of 36 (1537 views)
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Re: [borisattva] 1st reserve deployment. [In reply to] Can't Post

Clicky Cool
http://www.skydivingmovies.com/...download&id=1677

Quote:
unfortunatley the jms were unable to capture the line twist or the cutaway.
No...they were too busy geeking each other as soon as you disappeared away from them...spinning away as your canopy deployed...Crazy


(This post was edited by Zoter on Sep 13, 2004, 4:02 AM)


mattjw916  (D License)

Sep 13, 2004, 8:36 AM
Post #22 of 36 (1498 views)
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Re: [Zoter] 1st reserve deployment. [In reply to] Can't Post

That is really an unfair criticism of the instructor. You can see the the instructor raise his hands in a "WTF???" since the student dumps 15 seconds after exiting the plane.

What were they supposed to do? Fly up and catch him? The student pulled seriously high assuming a normal exit altitude of 13.5k not to mention didn't wave off and could have seriously injured the instructor if he was a couple of feet closer.

Even as a student you are still responsible for your own skydive esp after you dump at like 10k, in a spin, without a waving off... personally I would charge him for the handle, the repack, etc and some refresher training is in order, not to mention repeating the level.


Zoter

Sep 13, 2004, 9:39 AM
Post #23 of 36 (1489 views)
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Re: [mattjw916] 1st reserve deployment. [In reply to] Can't Post

You are correct.....they are not responsible for your deployment .....but just in my very humble opinion....they dont seem too bothered with just checking whats happened to that spinning student who dumped prematurely....
I mean they aint exactly trying to get clear air to get under canopy, and make sure that student was OK....


mattjw916  (D License)

Sep 13, 2004, 9:50 AM
Post #24 of 36 (1479 views)
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Re: [Zoter] 1st reserve deployment. [In reply to] Can't Post

I see your point, but as soon as the student pitches they are merely spectators, watching the dude spin doesn't have any tangible value IMHO.


borisattva

Sep 13, 2004, 9:58 AM
Post #25 of 36 (1476 views)
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Re: [mattjw916] 1st reserve deployment. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
That is really an unfair criticism of the instructor. You can see the the instructor raise his hands in a "WTF???" since the student dumps 15 seconds after exiting the plane.

What were they supposed to do? Fly up and catch him? The student pulled seriously high assuming a normal exit altitude of 13.5k not to mention didn't wave off and could have seriously injured the instructor if he was a couple of feet closer.

Even as a student you are still responsible for your own skydive esp after you dump at like 10k, in a spin, without a waving off... personally I would charge him for the handle, the repack, etc and some refresher training is in order, not to mention repeating the level.

'minimal' would be an overstatement for the amount of training and review i got before this jump.
this jump was after a 3-4 week absence form practice. i could say more on this but i wont; it was late in the day and i guess this jm was just too tired.

we exited at 12k
would you have rather have a student keep accellerating the spin to pull at the approrpiate altitude?
wave off, i did not. its a mistake i admit.
but in this case my spin (watch the real time) should have been a warning enough, and it should also be obvious that when i started recahing with my right, i wasnt merely doing a PC check.

as for filming, making sure i deployed ok.
i was surprised but didnt say anything to them.
what surprised me even more was the aparent skeptisism of my line twist (sinece neither of the guys even glanced at me to see it for them selves.
the 1st question i got after landing was 'why did you pull the reserve?'

for the handle /repack etc. i'm bringing plenty of beer for my next visit. and i am repeating the level (duh), but next time i wont assume that every instructor gives a damn, and i'm asking for my original ones by name.

now that the flaming is done with. can i get some more feedback on preventing/slowing down/stopping a spin?


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