Maybe you are right...maybe it's totally easy to get a pic if you use a video grab. However, I was going to send in some pics (one pic, one capture) and when i read the rules.....it just says photo. It doesn't say anyhting about what format the picture was captured in (35mm, MDV, or otherwise). I think it's kinda shitty to see judges saying that some pepole who sent things in won't be considered for sending in captures.....when thats not against the rules or even advised against. If the grabs look like shit (blurry lines, bad streaks, and some of the other things you noted) by all means don't vote for them. but don't vote for them becuse they are crappy pics, not because they are grabs. To me the best picture should win, regardless of how it was taken. LaFreak
I think it's kinda shitty to see judges saying that some pepole who sent things in won't be considered for sending in captures.....when thats not against the rules or even advised against.
No, I agree with quade. It's not shitty at all Frame grabs just look like crap (compared to a normal photo) The definition isn't there, the quality of the image, the color saturation... just.. everything. And you want a good picture, which mean the subject has to be interesting/fun to look at and the image quality needs to be good. Have a good quality photo of nothing or a crappy photo of something... just not gonna work Secondly, frame grabs really take no talent, and I think that's really what they're trying to reward. It's all about getting 'that shot' - I think that's really what quade wanted to say, but was afraid to
"Wait! You didn't get that on tape did you!?" Goat #1
---in my mind that’s digital processing and shouldn't be allowed.
What about digital still cameras? And at some point, unless you do your own developing, most pictures are processed (color correction mostly) by a computer, and you almost always have to make some corrections when you scan a photo...
Having said that, I agree grabs don't seem to meet the intent of the contest... anyone that shoots reasonable video can find that one frame that is good... catching that "moment in time" on film (traditional or digital) is more of a challenge...
Maybe we give the people that submitted grabs the opportunity to resubmit non-grabs?
btw, thanks for the shots this weekend, should have them up on the webpage later this week.
Now, at this point, this shit is getting funny to me. <<Frame grabs just look like crap (compared to a normal photo) The definition isn't there, the quality of the image, the color saturation... just.. everything.>> Ok, talking about quality and definitino..... If I scanned in a 9 meg bitmap of a great quality print, and sent it in to the contest....the boards software compresses it down to all of around 35K. Think I'm losing a little quality and res? <<in my mind thats digital processing and shouldn't be allowed.>> I love this double standard. No digital processing should be allowed. So the guy with the 4 megapixl still cam can't send anything in to the contest, but his photo might make the cover of Sports Il. or the New York Times. And digital processing is bad...but using color print film is fine! Over or under expose your film by 2 stops, and most of the time they will come back looking the same from most labs because they PROCESS them and adjust the color, hue, contrast, and exposure.
For all of you guys who want to make up rules that were never in the contest, here is what you need to do for your next one: 35mm slide film only, and the slides themselves have to be mailed in. That way there is the least chance for any horrible processing, and takes the most skill. Also, make the folks who enter sign something that says they took the picture with an SLR on manual exposure (not fair to have the camera figure out the exposure!!!! ). But if u did that.... you wouldn't have anything to bitch about, and more prizes than people who enter. I still find it funny that all of the things people are bitching about are not in the rules. Freak
Point taken Josh (edit>>and LeFreak who posted whilst I was composing<<), but when you deinterlace an image you actually put in image elements that weren't originally in it (either by interpolation or duplication), this is the point I was trying to make..... Colour correction, scanning adjustment etc are all acceptable, and should be encouraged, even the old way with silver halide and cellulose had colour and contrast correction inherent in the processing. In fact most stunning B/W snaps I've seen have had contrast enhancement to emphasise things, Ansell Adams' excellent images from Yosemite for example. As for burning and dodging in colour processing, the same thing stands. In the old days, processing enhancement was considered part of the photographers art, and a demonstration of their skills.
But then again, its supposed to be a fun comp, so why are we being all anal about this?
Snaps of your swooping antics? Any time bro , I have a lot of fun capturing your antics as I don't have the skills, balls, or inclination to swoop for myself.
(This post was edited by nacmacfeegle on Apr 9, 2002, 9:34 AM)
quade (D 22635)
Apr 9, 2002, 11:19 AM
Post #13 of 24
Secondly, frame grabs really take no talent, and I think that's really what they're trying to reward. It's all about getting 'that shot' - I think that's really what quade wanted to say, but was afraid to.
Didn't say you were a judge, but if you remember: <<<<In reply to: <<I just don't think that's the intent of the contest.>> I agree.... and I'm a judge! Safe swoops Sangiro >>
this really is getting funny. if by <<The last time I checked a photograph involved the use of light interacting with chemicals on a piece of film.>> you mean to say that DV, Hi-8, Beta,(or any media other than print/slide film) etc. are not considered "film" then maybe we should start calling you Dino instead of Quade. By your definition, the things I see in the news papers, magazines, family portriats, and all over the internet with all the pretty colors and images of pepole....are not photographes. Thus most studios today just have "Picturetakers, or Pictogrphers" and not photographers. There are infact ways to take, print, copy, reproduce, enhance and enlarge "photographs" that don't involve 35mm (med format, large format or any format for that matter) film. I love 35mm photography, but I also understand and admit that there are new ways to take pictures that don't involve film. Again, I wouldn't be against a contest that was 35mm only (slide film for that matter), but don't whine and moan when people are following the rules set out in the contest. LeFreak
(This post was edited by LeFreak on Apr 9, 2002, 1:56 PM)
I'm not too worried about the frame grabbers... most of the frame grab pics are obvious, and based on comments in this thread by one of the judges, it seems they will be looking at that while judging. While it may not be against the rules, it seems those entries will be at a disadvantage.
I think we are generally on the same side of the issue...
In no way am I saying that they ought to be allowed, just that the rules don't say one way or the other... my guess is, based on Sangrio's comments, that the judges won't consider them for the prize contention. Perhaps knowing that from the outset some folks may have chosen their submissions differently. Ultimately the issue rests with the judges and how they feel about it.
Ok, talking about quality and definitino..... If I scanned in a 9 meg bitmap of a great quality print, and sent it in to the contest....the boards software compresses it down to all of around 35K. Think I'm losing a little quality and res?
Yes, but you do the same thing with a frame grab too. And when you lose quality from something that wasn't already high quality, it looks even worse. File size does not equal quality. You can argue it all you want, but it's pretty easy to look at a still picture (from 35mm film, high quality dig camera, whatever) and compare it to a frame grabbed from video and determine which is which - even after they've both been compress/reduced in size.
And there is no 'rule' and no one is making up rules as they go along. You can send in frame grabs, they just probably won't win because of the reasons stated above.
Yes quade, too subtle...
"Wait! You didn't get that on tape did you!?" Goat #1
quade (D 22635)
Apr 10, 2002, 12:22 PM
Post #22 of 24
That's the fine line I have to walk being a moderator.
Some people pick up on subtle hints very well, others don't understand you if you hit them over the head with a baseball bat. Some people react to a subtle hints as if they were baseball bats. So, it's a fine line. The line gets even thinner when opinion is involved.